Logitech has a very good waranty process. You have a problem with the peddles, call them and they will send ou a new set. They will not ask for the old set back. I now have two one I can rebuild and one that is working great.

Once again our team starting a race series and looking for a way to try and keep the racing close despite the differences in driver skill. Right now the only way we can slow down people is to add weight to thier cars. This however is only viable using added passengers. The problem is that not every car can cary the same number of passangers and none of the GTRs can cary any. This means that we have no way to inpliment a weight penalty system in the Race cars.

So once again I am here to bring this issue up for discussion in the hopes that some enterprizing coder can come up with an in-sim mod or that the devs can understand our need for such system, as an option to server and league admins, not requirment of racers.

I Don't destroy tires in the XFR, why do you?

I would put a RWD in that class because I like the speed and feel of that class but perfer RWD over FWD cars. It would also possably increase the popularity of the class.

I thought I got that handel wrong thanks...

I really enjoy the speed and handeling of the cars in this class. I also much Perfer to drive a RWD car. So I started looking for a car which would fit the bill. Since adding a completely new car is unlikely to happen until some time after S2 is final I started looking at curret cars in LFS. There where two that looked to be close. The LX4 and the RAC.

Of those two the RAC looks like a better choice. The power to weight ratios are very close. When you put slicks on the RAC its handeling becomes quite nice and is only slightly faster then the XFR, about 1/2 a second per minute on the tracks I tested with virgin AI and the Race_1 sets.

If we could get a race prepped version of the RAC that is slightly heavier or a little less powerfull it would make an great addition to this class. To test this for your selves you need the slick mod by Kegetys and LFS Alpha 0.5P2.

Last edited by Gimpster, Sun 23 Oct 2005, 01:49.

Very cool.

Thanks MorroW.

Yes that one will do nicely.

I like the on-track one. 1600x1280 would be great but it that is too much anything will do.

Thanks in advance.

I like this trhread.

Can I get a render as well?

Quote from Revzalot :

I think wheels should be required to play LFS while other input devices should be banned such as the mouse, trackball, etc. This is an auto racing simulation after all and someone should program LFS to not allow the user to race with a mouse in MULTIPLAYER mode. *Flame suit on*

Simple answer:

The fact that LFS is a very real simulation when using a wheel but still very drivable with other control methods means LFS can and will attract a wider range of users, drawing in more users, which just gives us more people to race with and the developers more money to keep developing this sim we have all come to enjoy.

Wheel only means we loose many users and such a loss would kill LFS, plain and simple. Personaly I would like to see it stay around for awhile, wouldn't you?

See you didn't even need your flame suite.

Quote from Cue-Ball :

I run the Seattle server and generally have those cars disabled on the server. Last night we have between 3-8 people on the server all night running MRTs, FZ 50s, GTs, etc. We ran the cadet track at Aston, but spent most of our time on less used tracks like Westhill (and Westhill in the FZ 50 is a blast!).

I think I found a new home.

A fellow Puget Sounder.

Easy its a game and you were just brought out of your delve in to virtual-reality with a bang.

I know this has been brought up in the past on RSC and may be been here as well but I think my ideas may differ enough to warrant a new thread. If I am wrong close it.


Since using LFS S2 Alpha I have come to love all the new circuits, but also notice that there could be a few more interesting circuits built using different parts of the tracks. There was a similar idea back during the S1 days, which while not resulting in a tool to define our own circuit configurations, did I believe result in the creation of the South City Town configuration. Most of the current racing venues have enough unique track segments to allow for at least one additional configuration of a Sprint (No Pit) or Traditional (Pit Access) configuration, with the possible exception of Westhill & Blackwood, some perhaps a new Rally-Cross configuration, while a track like Aston has room for several.


While we could just encourage Scawen, Eric and Victor to build these additional configurations it might be less work to instead just have the configurations user definable through a tool some what like the current Autocross editor. I have two ideas on how this could work. Both ideas would require the entire racing surface of each venue to be accessible.


One way to do this would be to use a tool like the Autocross editor to place objects, both visible and invisible on the racing surfaces. The visible objects allow the racers to see the configuration by blocking of the sections that are not part of the circuit and the invisible to define the circuit to the simulation. The visible objects are the same as those in the autocross editor, while the invisible ones would consists of things like pit designation, start/finish line, split time gate, etc.


The other possible way to implement this would be less work for the racers but maybe more difficult to develop. They could break up each racing venue in to predefined track segments, which the racers could select using a new interface to define a configuration, with back end rules to define what is a valid or invalid configuration. While this would lead to less flexibility, it would be easier to control and monitor, as well as be more user friendly to the racers.


I am sure there are also people that have a desire to have unrestricted access to a racing venue for open practice of specific corners, or for different types of entertainment just as the some times popular LFS stand by “Cops & Robbers” or a new format such as “Follow the Leader” where the driver in the lead picks and chooses the course as they go and the trailing drivers must attempt to follow this ever changing course.


As an example one configuration I think would be a great addition is at the Aston venue. Starting at the Cadet starting line and pit lane section, it would follow the Aston GP course until it reached the chicane before the main Pit on the front straight. Instead it would continue straight ahead on to the back section of Club and re-enter the front straight past the overpass, making a right turn on to the straight, through the sweeper and back to the start/finish line. This would be a very interesting configuration offering several fast, medium and slow sections, be the longest configuration yet and place the pits in a slow section instead of at the start of the straight.


I think adding in a system like this might help to keep people interested longer once S2 is released while we patiently wait for the next phase of LFS development, whether that is the rumored Rally Pack or S3.

The basic point is this, once someone is in the draft and pulls out to pass its already too late to block. I will make multiple line adjustments on a straight for one reason only, to break or prevent a draft. Once a draft has been caught its already too late to block safely. If someong intends to pass there really is nothing you can safely do to prevent it. Defensive driving and blocking are two different things and need to be addressed seperatly in my opinion.

Here is a tip, write the author and explane to them how you feel in a constructive way, if they are like the one I contacted then you may find yourself writing an indepth review as a guest author.Which reminds me I need to finish that article....

Simple solution. Disabe the Display Name altogeather, and force people to use their registered account name. Will end the problem right away. Maybe as a small field to append a prefix and or suffix to the registerd name as an option for team and other afiliations.

At some point I would like to see drag and aero cacluated on the fly for the entire car. A car sliding sideways has a different profile to the wind then a car driving straight ahead in to the wind. Simbin said they modeled thin in to the GTR2002 mod and asume it also made it in to GTR but its was still built on an less then stelar physics engine.

The issues I think most people have with a system like this is that if you start to give servers too much control over who can enter the servers you quickly get a seperation of skill levels, which can lead to closer racing but also makes it more diffacut to advance in skill as you rarly get the oppertunity to run with people better then yourself which I feel is the best practice and training you can get.

The other potential issues is that every server admin will want to provide the best conditions for their guests, which will cause them to slowly drive up the minimum speeds and thus create a situation where there are 75% of servers catering to the top 25% of drivers and only 25% of servers catering to the other 75% of the drivers, or something similar. In the short term it may be an improvment but in the long term may do more to hurt the comunity then help it.

At least in my opinion.

BlueShaun, I wrote that as if in a GTR, the FZR to be exact, and I can run 36s there with my current set. Its not ment to be so much a guide to the perfect line or speeds, but rather as a representation of what it might feel to drive that track. I was only trying convey how I feel running that track, nothng more.

Quote from gunja :

That would be the rule on the public roads and normal traffic driving but i dont agree that it's the case in racing. You have to know that the driver behind cannot always anticipate some wreckles stunt that you may pull to prevent him to overtake.

I have to disagree with your here. If I am being causous on the start to avoid running the guy in front of me over or to make sure I have a clean line through a corner and you hit me because you failed to leave yourself room for errors, how is that my fault? I do agree that if you are trying to ever take my before the turn in point and I do not have room or time to block you then trying to do so is not a good idea.

Since some people seem confused by this thread I have added a little explination to the start of the story. I hope it is now clear.

As you cross the start finish line you stay to the center of the track until you are past the pit egress lane, you never know when some unaware hotshot will come blasting out of the pits forgetting to check their mirrors. Once certain it's safe, you set up as far to the left as you can in preparation for the first turn, a gut wrenching blind right hand sweeper than drops off to the outside The corner approaches fast and there are few warnings, you go with your gut and toss the car to the right just as you crest the slight hill. You find your reactions were a little late and are a little wide but a slight lift of the throttle to tuck the nose in followed but a return to full throttle puts you on a perfect line for the exit.

Powering out of turn one you slide over to the right edge of the tarmac keeping the throttle pegged until the last moment, then quickly drop two gears and brace for the entry for turn two. As your speed drops to 120mph you throw the car to the left towards the apex letting the car drift down to 114mph before powering out and running all the way to the right edge of the tarmac.

You grab fifth gear as you blast around the gentle rising right hander that is turn three. As you crest the hill the track starts to drop away and to the left. You eyes linger for a split second at the wall beyond the grass before you dive to the left hugging the inside edge of turn four. You slowly modulate the throttle to keep the nose turning and to maintain speed as the G-forces try and throw you off the track to the right. As the corner starts to open up you drift right and drop a gear.

Darting back to the left you lift just enough to get the nose turning as you dive back to the right, in to the apex of turn five. Checking you line to ease back on the gas as to drift wide to the left praying you don’t run too wide and drop a tire on to the grass, like the poor soul in front of you did a few laps back. You heart skips a beat as you feel your left rear tire toy with the edge of the tarmac, but hold your course and are rewarded as the car settles on the very edge.

Maintaining your line you drift back to the right as you steel a glance at the still fresh skid marks which disappear off the track heading out towards the wall. You snap you attention back to track, grab the next gear and dive back to the left as the track falls yet again. You feel the car get light as the track drops away through turn six, but you keep the power down as you know the grip will be back in moment, as you drift wide to the right as the track climbs back up.

Just as you crest the top of this little rise you catch sight of the rumble strip to your right and get on the brakes, drop a gear and slide back to the left the first apex in the turn seven complex. You hit the first apex late allowing you to power straight to the second and run your right side tires up over the curb. As the car starts to settle you dive hard for the last apex hard on throttle, the tires screaming in protest, but that hold their grip and you have a few moments to relax, at last and you grab the next two gears and rocket down the short straight towards turn eight.

As turn eight looms closer you line up on the right and count down the distance. Just before the 150 meter maker lift of the gas and work down through the gears to third, making sure to drop all your speed before the tune in point. Easing back on the throttle you make for the apex on the left which drop away quickly. You feel the back of the car start to step out and ease the power back, adding a bit of counter steer to settle it back in line.

Holding the counter steer a moment longer then needed starts the car rotating back around to the right as the apex for turn 9 approaches. Using subtle inputs to the gas and wheel you keep the car rotating until you perfectly aligned for the apex. You power out running out the very edge of the tarmac on the left. You hesitate a second as you pass under the bridge and let the left front tire touch the grass. Pretending it never happened you dive back to the right for the second apex that opens up to the fast complex that lies ahead.

Charging fast out of the second apex of turn nine you drift left through turn ten as you grab fifth gear. Hard the power the whole way to slide back to the right for the apex of eleven and ride the curb all the way through finally roaring out of the exit grabbing sixth gear as you bear down on the final turn.

You push out to the right and watch as the end of the rumble strip flashes past, time to start dropping speed. You stand of the brakes and drop through the gears to third. As you speed drops to dive down to the left in to the first part of the corner bleeding off speed as you go. At the apex you gently ease back on the power as you test the grip, and the back tries to step out but you reign in. As the car settles in to place you bring the power back up and rocket on to the front straight.

Finally you have a moment to relax, so you try and calm you heart as to grab forth gear. You feel the pressure in your chest relax a bit grabbing fifth gear as you fly past the pit entrance. You see the corner ahead and slowly move back to the left in perpetration for that gut clenching first turn. You grab sixth as you cross the start/finish line you nerves tensing, only 60 more laps to go. Then out of the corner of you eye you see a shock of color to your left as the pit lane ends and you realize you just crossed over in to the pit egress lane. You heart stops, you try and move back to the right as you stand on the brakes, but it’s too late and the next thing you remember is sitting in your twisted car, while the poor guy you just ran over is screaming at you in a language you do not understand.

Welcome to Westhill International Raceway.

Last edited by Gimpster, Tue 16 Aug 2005, 16:36.

Simple awnser, Don't cut corners. Dirt happens, embrace it or drive an AWD.

I do not know why every one still thinks the FZR is the car to beat. While it is true that is is a litte faster on the hotlap charts is is a much more diffacult car to drive ont he edge. Touching the grass in a corner or under breaking and its all over, not to mention it can't run R2s for more then a few laps befor they are melting. The FZR has the same HP, Less Torque and a peak power 2k RPMs higher then the other cars yet uses 20% more fuel. It weighs the same but eats tires at 150% the rate of the other cars. The only situation where the FZR has an advantage is in a short race on an open track & on the hot lap charts. In every situation its has more disadvantages then the other cars.

The NAL, ESL and other leagues are starting to prove that the FZR is not all that great, but it is competitive. The XRR is the base line as the XRT was before it. The FXO is just like the RB4 and is a little low on power but once we have varying weather it will come in to its own and trash the other cars. Scawen has always maintained that the classes were being ballanced fr longer races not sprints. I think the FZR is easier to drive well with int he performance envelope, but once you start approaching the edge the other two are easier to handel. If that was not the case the top drivers in the leagues would all be driving it, but they are not. They are in the XRR.