This is one of the sortcomings of the LFS engine. It does now allow for alterations of the program to remain backward compatable. I can see reasons why they did this and I can se reasons why this is a bad thing but its not my sim.
Adding ballast would break the compatability as the OOS check would not find a paramiter for the ballast option from a client without the current version and would reject the client. It would break Hotlapping as well. LFS does not have the ability to ignore missing but expected paramiters.
Its the same reason why a Demo client can not conect to a S2 host running Blackwood with only the XRT enabled. Or why and S1 client can't connect to an S2 host running Fernbay. The engine does not allow cross connection unless you have the rights to all of the content of the host. So just the same a client what does not have a version with a feature can not connect to a host that does have the feature. It would be come a validation nightmere and allow for cheating.
Until there are built in systems to control who or what can enter a race on a much more granular level such as displacement, weight/power ratios, etc which let us define our own race classes LFS will never be able to support altering vehicle performance or allowing clients with veriyng features to connect to hosts which have features not supported by its clients but it does allow an client with a newer client to connect to an older hosts with less features such as and S2 client connecting to an S1 or Demo host.
Adding ballast would break the compatability as the OOS check would not find a paramiter for the ballast option from a client without the current version and would reject the client. It would break Hotlapping as well. LFS does not have the ability to ignore missing but expected paramiters.
Its the same reason why a Demo client can not conect to a S2 host running Blackwood with only the XRT enabled. Or why and S1 client can't connect to an S2 host running Fernbay. The engine does not allow cross connection unless you have the rights to all of the content of the host. So just the same a client what does not have a version with a feature can not connect to a host that does have the feature. It would be come a validation nightmere and allow for cheating.
Until there are built in systems to control who or what can enter a race on a much more granular level such as displacement, weight/power ratios, etc which let us define our own race classes LFS will never be able to support altering vehicle performance or allowing clients with veriyng features to connect to hosts which have features not supported by its clients but it does allow an client with a newer client to connect to an older hosts with less features such as and S2 client connecting to an S1 or Demo host.
Last edited by Gimpster, .
If you have played nKPro you woudl know what I mean by road grain. And yet I can feel the subtle veriations in the road surface through the steering wheel in my real car. Just as easily as every little vibration from the car and road through every part of my body that is in contect with the car.
Right now in LFS it feels like I am driving on buttery smooth concrete like a garage floor. There is not character to the road, it like driving on glass.
Right now in LFS it feels like I am driving on buttery smooth concrete like a garage floor. There is not character to the road, it like driving on glass.
iRacing has alot of potential. nKPro has some potential but I think its gona take a long time to reatch it, if it ever does.
Drivers Republic is the one that has me the most excited, but I do not see it getting close for a few years yet. Personaly I like that the designer was first an engineer and second a sim designer. Its also going to be less of a racing sim and more of an engineering tool to design and test cars and tracks. I do not think it will ever reatch the level of accessability and fun that LFS has though.
Drivers Republic is the one that has me the most excited, but I do not see it getting close for a few years yet. Personaly I like that the designer was first an engineer and second a sim designer. Its also going to be less of a racing sim and more of an engineering tool to design and test cars and tracks. I do not think it will ever reatch the level of accessability and fun that LFS has though.
Ok since some of you do not seem to understand geometry let me paint a picture for you in terms you may understand.
When you add negitive camber to you wheels to aid in cornering grip what part of your wheel is closest to the wall when you are near one. The lower part. So if you hit the wall sideways the lower part of the wheel take the hit transfering the energy in to the lower suspension arm and damaging it. This is represented as the arm becoming shorter when reduces the negetive camber on the wheel.
Now if you have the wheel turned in to out when this contact occures then you also risk damage to the steering arm and thus can affect the two angle of that wheel. Most of the cars in LFS with zero camber have a small margine of crush space before the wheel and suspension is affected. This goes away very quickly as you add negitive camber or steering input.
Welcome to a usefull application to the physics and geometry you are learning in school.
When you add negitive camber to you wheels to aid in cornering grip what part of your wheel is closest to the wall when you are near one. The lower part. So if you hit the wall sideways the lower part of the wheel take the hit transfering the energy in to the lower suspension arm and damaging it. This is represented as the arm becoming shorter when reduces the negetive camber on the wheel.
Now if you have the wheel turned in to out when this contact occures then you also risk damage to the steering arm and thus can affect the two angle of that wheel. Most of the cars in LFS with zero camber have a small margine of crush space before the wheel and suspension is affected. This goes away very quickly as you add negitive camber or steering input.
Welcome to a usefull application to the physics and geometry you are learning in school.
When something comes along that exceeds the level of imersion, reality and ease of accessability I will continue to call LFS my home for racing simulation. There are a few titles that seem poised to take its place but that are no where near along their development cycle as LFS. I do not see somthing taking LFS's place for quite some time.
I have been here nearly since the begining and will be here to see the end.
I have been here nearly since the begining and will be here to see the end.
There is no grainiess feeling to the road surfaces in LFS. Go drive nKPro so see what I mean or a real car. I do not feel any feedback through the wheel in LFS that maks me feel the car is connected to the road other then curbs. The road grain vibration is missing completely.
I think Ride Height should be changed to spring pre-load. I think that is what we are really adjusting.
LFS has taught me quite a lot about vehicle dynamics over the years. It made the transision to a light RWD miata from a pickup a non issue. I was throttle steering the little thing on the first autox practice I attended like I had been doing it all my life.
The FXR and the old FXO are styled after a race verson of the Opel (Vaxhall) Astra.
The basic idea is to take the street cars and have each one avalable in 4 versions.
A Basic Trim
A Sport Trim
A Race Prepped Trim
A Factory Built Race Car
As it is now there are 5 Street classes:
UF1 - XFG/XRG - XRT/FXO/RB4 - LX4 - LX6/RAC/FZ5
And two Race classes:
XFR/UFR - XRR/FXR/FZR
My model also has 5 street classes and two race classes. The only differences is we would get more cars in each class as we would have more variants of each car. It also then paves the way to limit setup complexity based on the class of the car. Imagine having a no downforce version of the XR, FZ and RAC in the same class and equal to the XFR and UFR.
A Basic Trim
A Sport Trim
A Race Prepped Trim
A Factory Built Race Car
As it is now there are 5 Street classes:
UF1 - XFG/XRG - XRT/FXO/RB4 - LX4 - LX6/RAC/FZ5
And two Race classes:
XFR/UFR - XRR/FXR/FZR
My model also has 5 street classes and two race classes. The only differences is we would get more cars in each class as we would have more variants of each car. It also then paves the way to limit setup complexity based on the class of the car. Imagine having a no downforce version of the XR, FZ and RAC in the same class and equal to the XFR and UFR.
Ok I surrender, I have derailed this topic far too much when I did not really care one way or the other about the OPs idea.
I am really bored at work today. Sorry.
Hotlapping does help you:
Hone Car Control Skills
Improve Track Knowlage
Build Consistancy
Learn the Fast Lines
Personaly I have improved more while racing with good racers (who may also be good hotlappers) then on my own hotlaping.
I am really bored at work today. Sorry.
Hotlapping does help you:
Hone Car Control Skills
Improve Track Knowlage
Build Consistancy
Learn the Fast Lines
Personaly I have improved more while racing with good racers (who may also be good hotlappers) then on my own hotlaping.
Last edited by Gimpster, .
Biohazard,
I am fully aware of the driving skill to hotlap, its a different type of skill though and mostly applies to preparing ones self for qualifying laps. There are alot of people who hotlap an are great at it while at the same time struggle in traffic. I use T1 as an example because in this corner on the first lap everyone is racing as hard as they can to get position. This means everyone and especialy the hotlap experts are trying to put their car in the same space. They often are so conditioned to their practiced line and braking points then they are unable to adjust for traffic and thus a T1 incidient ensues.
I personaly do not hotlap because I do not care where on the grid I start from so being able to pull out a perfect lap is not important to me. But in racers where there are a lot of people in fast cars there are always a few that fail to leave room, or smack the car in front because they are so focused on their perfect line. I have lost track of the number of times I have been hit in the first turn because someone tried to find that perfect line and found it unavalable and did not know how to react.
That is the biggest deficency in LFS drives. Everyone tries to drive at 110%, few know how to drive well off the ideal line. The Hotlap feature feeds that deficency. Its not a global stereotype but its becoming a common trend.
I am fully aware of the driving skill to hotlap, its a different type of skill though and mostly applies to preparing ones self for qualifying laps. There are alot of people who hotlap an are great at it while at the same time struggle in traffic. I use T1 as an example because in this corner on the first lap everyone is racing as hard as they can to get position. This means everyone and especialy the hotlap experts are trying to put their car in the same space. They often are so conditioned to their practiced line and braking points then they are unable to adjust for traffic and thus a T1 incidient ensues.
I personaly do not hotlap because I do not care where on the grid I start from so being able to pull out a perfect lap is not important to me. But in racers where there are a lot of people in fast cars there are always a few that fail to leave room, or smack the car in front because they are so focused on their perfect line. I have lost track of the number of times I have been hit in the first turn because someone tried to find that perfect line and found it unavalable and did not know how to react.
That is the biggest deficency in LFS drives. Everyone tries to drive at 110%, few know how to drive well off the ideal line. The Hotlap feature feeds that deficency. Its not a global stereotype but its becoming a common trend.
Cars, Classes & Setup Options
I do really care for the way the cars and car classes are currently represented in LFS or in the number and granularity of the setup options each car has available to it. I would love to see this part of LFS change and present a different feel for this racing simulator.
Cars & Classes
S2 introduced a new concept in LFS which allow the different cars of the same type to share a common base model with different additional parts and performance specs based on the specific model of any given type. For example the XRG, XRT & XRR are all just XRs with different body panels, wheels, wings and other bits. It’s the same for the LX4 & LX6, the UF1 & UFR, the XFG & XFR, the FXO & FXR as well as the FZ5 and FZR. Now only one street one car comes in three variations and two only have a single variation while the majority of them have just two. I would love to see each of these cars come in three or four variations. It would be nice to have each of the street cars available in a Base trim, Performance trim, Race Prepped trim and Competition trim.
This would change the car groupings a little but not too much and I see it looking something like this:
Showroom Stock:
Group A: UF-B
Group B: XF-B, XR-B, FX-B, RB-B (Non-Turbo versions of the FXO and RB4)
Group C: RA-B, FZ-B, LX-B (LX4)
Improved Touring:
Group A: UF-P, XF-P, XR-P, FX-P, RB-P (Turbo versions of All)
Group B: RA-P, FZ-P, LX-P (LX6)
Grand Touring:
Group A: UF-R, XF-R, XR-R, FX-R, RB-R, RA-R, FZ-R, LX-R
Super Touring:
Group A: UF-C, XF-C, XR-C, FX-C, RB-C, RA-C, FZ-C, LX-C
This allows for more choice in a given class and for more levels of competition.
Class Based Setup Options:
Now in addition to the restructuring of the cars and their classes I would like to see the setup options on the cars also be restructured to reflect more realistic levels. The basic idea is to allow more adjustability as the classes advance. This them makes the slower cars less complex to setup and more accessible to newer players when also allowing more flexibility to more experienced players.
Cars & Classes
S2 introduced a new concept in LFS which allow the different cars of the same type to share a common base model with different additional parts and performance specs based on the specific model of any given type. For example the XRG, XRT & XRR are all just XRs with different body panels, wheels, wings and other bits. It’s the same for the LX4 & LX6, the UF1 & UFR, the XFG & XFR, the FXO & FXR as well as the FZ5 and FZR. Now only one street one car comes in three variations and two only have a single variation while the majority of them have just two. I would love to see each of these cars come in three or four variations. It would be nice to have each of the street cars available in a Base trim, Performance trim, Race Prepped trim and Competition trim.
This would change the car groupings a little but not too much and I see it looking something like this:
Showroom Stock:
Group A: UF-B
Group B: XF-B, XR-B, FX-B, RB-B (Non-Turbo versions of the FXO and RB4)
Group C: RA-B, FZ-B, LX-B (LX4)
Improved Touring:
Group A: UF-P, XF-P, XR-P, FX-P, RB-P (Turbo versions of All)
Group B: RA-P, FZ-P, LX-P (LX6)
Grand Touring:
Group A: UF-R, XF-R, XR-R, FX-R, RB-R, RA-R, FZ-R, LX-R
Super Touring:
Group A: UF-C, XF-C, XR-C, FX-C, RB-C, RA-C, FZ-C, LX-C
This allows for more choice in a given class and for more levels of competition.
Class Based Setup Options:
Now in addition to the restructuring of the cars and their classes I would like to see the setup options on the cars also be restructured to reflect more realistic levels. The basic idea is to allow more adjustability as the classes advance. This them makes the slower cars less complex to setup and more accessible to newer players when also allowing more flexibility to more experienced players.
Even spec racing classes still let you adjust things like tire pressure, camber and suspension settings. Spec racing just ensures that all teams have the same basic car and ability to adjust. Even Showroom Stock classes allow setup changes within what is avalable in stock trim.
Enforcing a single setup is more like the Driver Challange type series of events where all the cars are setup identicle and by the same orginization.
What I would like to see is the setup options bebecome less granular in nature and more realistic steps be offered based on car class. Then we could enforce server side things like which options are changable and their range.
For example the street cars should have a fixed gear set, with only the final drive able to be altered and there should only be a few options for that. The faster street cars might have the option to run a short, normal and long gearset in the gearbox.
But in the end I have an idea I like even more and will repost it again in its own thread.
Warming trend leads to cooling trend, ergo Global Warming leads to Ice Age. We know the change can happen fast, mumified Mamoth's still standing with food in their mouth is a testoment to how fast things can change. The Dark ages were a mini Ice Age, and we know so little about how the earths climate changes that trying to predict what and when change will happen is not likely to end in a correct assumption.
There are lots of pointers that the earth is changing. Weather patterns have become stronger, storms are getting worse every year, the oceans have warmed to a point they they are now blue and not green with planckton like they once were and in recient years there has been a masive coral die off. Earth quakes are on the rise, another potentialy earth intersecting asteroid has been discovered and the "End of Days" is approaching.
Do what ever you feel is right for you and enjoy your time here for no-one knows when your time will be up.
Oh and the single largest source of polution on the panet is COWS, be we are the one breading and increasing their numbers far beyond what they would be if they wer not a food source for us. Either way I like steak and hamburger.
There are lots of pointers that the earth is changing. Weather patterns have become stronger, storms are getting worse every year, the oceans have warmed to a point they they are now blue and not green with planckton like they once were and in recient years there has been a masive coral die off. Earth quakes are on the rise, another potentialy earth intersecting asteroid has been discovered and the "End of Days" is approaching.
Do what ever you feel is right for you and enjoy your time here for no-one knows when your time will be up.
Oh and the single largest source of polution on the panet is COWS, be we are the one breading and increasing their numbers far beyond what they would be if they wer not a food source for us. Either way I like steak and hamburger.
Ok but what is the point of hotlapping? It serves no real purpose other then to practice for qualifying. I see no reason why we need hotlap charts at all. Having the charts encourges people to hotlap, hotlaping premotes driving the ideal line and comiting it to memory. I find that people that liek to hotlap are poor racers when forced to drive a non-ideal line in a race. They are the one that cause T1 pile-ups and racing incidents.
I do not thing any real world hotlapping is even recorded, only official laps qualify for WR and Fast Lap recognition, why shoudl it be different here?
I do not thing any real world hotlapping is even recorded, only official laps qualify for WR and Fast Lap recognition, why shoudl it be different here?
I do not even understand the whole concept of hotlapping. WR should only be valid from online race and qual laps. Offline driving and online practice should be just that, practice. They should have no impact on the online comunity of LFS.
Well if we stop burning oil then we will have more for lubricants. There are also things like zero friction bearings where there is not contact and therefore no wear, which do not need lubication. Fresh water is easy to come by, the ocean is full of it, the polar caps are full of it the earth is full of it but most of it needs to be treated in some way before we can use it. Even urine is paletable with filtering. You think they stock large supplies of water on the space station and shuttle? They recycle what little thsy have and yes they includes urine.
Quicksilver,
Donating money to a foundation like that is not the most efficient means of helping to offset you "Carbon" costs. Any orginization will have overhead and some of the funds have to go to pay opperation costs and even more then has to go to offset their "Carbon" costs and in the end only a fraction of your donation accualy does any real good.
Why not instead take that money and do something worth while with it your self. Build a garden, plant trees, clean up an abandioned lot and turn it in to a green space with your neiborhood. Why let someone else be responcible to offsetting your personal "Carbon" costs.
Donating money to a foundation like that is not the most efficient means of helping to offset you "Carbon" costs. Any orginization will have overhead and some of the funds have to go to pay opperation costs and even more then has to go to offset their "Carbon" costs and in the end only a fraction of your donation accualy does any real good.
Why not instead take that money and do something worth while with it your self. Build a garden, plant trees, clean up an abandioned lot and turn it in to a green space with your neiborhood. Why let someone else be responcible to offsetting your personal "Carbon" costs.
Oil is an inefficient form of hydrocarbon. We can grow corn and soybeans and produce as much E86 or Bio-Disel as we need. We can extract H and O2 form water with electricity collected from the sun and wind. And we can generate as much electricity as we need from the sun, oceans, rivers, geo-thermal or nuclear fision as the planet will ever need. Oil is not needed.
Our biggest impact to global warming is not the amount of green house gasses we put in to the atmosphear but our practice of destroying vegitation and posining our lands, rivers and oceans.
The eruption of Krakatoa (sic) introduced more green house gasses in to the atmosphear in that once single event then all of humanity has since the start of the industrial revolution. It true that any we add is extra on top of the existing levels, but the tempture of this planet has been far warmer and far cooler in the past.
The biggest issue right not is not what we are adding to the envirenment is what we are taking away and as someone else said what the sun is doing. The sun has historicly followed a heating and cooling cycle that spans I think 14 years. The last heating cycle did not stop. The sun is putting out more solar radiation each year. Combine that with humanities constant destruction of vegitation on this planet through land development, de-forestation, and strip mining and now the planet is becoming drier and warmer.
The result is increases temps accross the board and more sevear weather patterns across the globe. So yes the planet is heating up, no we are not soly responcible for it and no there is little we can do to alter the pattern. About the best thing you can do is plant a tree. When the city too down the tree in front of my house the average temps in my home increased 10F-20F the following year. No joke. Vegitation traps cool moisture near the surface, stops eroasion, and buffers against winds. Removing it is a major factor many people have no yet looked at as a source for Global Warming.
The eruption of Krakatoa (sic) introduced more green house gasses in to the atmosphear in that once single event then all of humanity has since the start of the industrial revolution. It true that any we add is extra on top of the existing levels, but the tempture of this planet has been far warmer and far cooler in the past.
The biggest issue right not is not what we are adding to the envirenment is what we are taking away and as someone else said what the sun is doing. The sun has historicly followed a heating and cooling cycle that spans I think 14 years. The last heating cycle did not stop. The sun is putting out more solar radiation each year. Combine that with humanities constant destruction of vegitation on this planet through land development, de-forestation, and strip mining and now the planet is becoming drier and warmer.
The result is increases temps accross the board and more sevear weather patterns across the globe. So yes the planet is heating up, no we are not soly responcible for it and no there is little we can do to alter the pattern. About the best thing you can do is plant a tree. When the city too down the tree in front of my house the average temps in my home increased 10F-20F the following year. No joke. Vegitation traps cool moisture near the surface, stops eroasion, and buffers against winds. Removing it is a major factor many people have no yet looked at as a source for Global Warming.
Well since most race tracks here in the states will not allow a convertable car on the track with out a roll bar for insurance reasons any open top car would require the addition of a roll bar to preserve the essance of reality.
I don't think the devs have any plan to allow the damage to be turned off. It would be nice to see an option to allow for more realistic persistant damage and all of the penalties that are associated with it for the servers or people that want more realism. I think a big part of the problems we see in open public servers are the result of there being real penalty for poor driving, as such there is no percived risk and everyone drives at 100%-105% all the time when in reality most race drives are pushing at 95%-99% and leaving a small margin of safety.
The level of damage to the cars is definatly far to low. While it may not be practical at this time to impliment parts disconnecting from the vehicles the level of damage a car does take in an incident needs to be ramped up alot. Especialy with reguards to high force impacts. Only the drivers compartment is reinforced to withstand large impacts the rest of the car is there to absorb and dispate the impact energy.
Hell I am still waiting for teathered objects and realistice physics of teathered objects like true tire walls and fences.
Hell I am still waiting for teathered objects and realistice physics of teathered objects like true tire walls and fences.
Its not the only thing nKPro got right, their clutch/transmission/shifting simulation is also far better then LFS.
I very much would like to see there be real concequences for once actions in LFS. The damage and wear features of nKPro and how they are persistant also opens up further options for leagues, such as limiting the number of engines and tires a team has to use for the season. Breaking in tires during practice so they start at optimal grip for the race or qualifying, etc.
I very much would like to see there be real concequences for once actions in LFS. The damage and wear features of nKPro and how they are persistant also opens up further options for leagues, such as limiting the number of engines and tires a team has to use for the season. Breaking in tires during practice so they start at optimal grip for the race or qualifying, etc.
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG