The simple answer is I don't miss by a couple of meters. Anyone that does not allow some margin for error is a wreckless driver. Just because this is a simulation and not reality is no excuse to drive at 10/10th all the time. Mistakes happen, the colision detection system is a little iffy, and lag can all have very negitive affects on close racing and if you have no safty margin then bad things happen and tempers flare.
I have alot more fun where the drivers I an running with respect me enough to allow for small mistakes or incidents to not have a big impact on the race. As the comfort level gets higher the racing gets tighter and the amout of magine shrinks. But on a public server racing with people I am not very familure with I don't push it as close to the limits. So no I am not the most competitive on the server and it may take me a few races to get up near the front but once I am there I know I got there by being smart and patient not being a bullheaded dork like so many other people I have raced with.
Sure there are times when for what ever reason you can't get the car stoped and when that happnes you just run wide and give the other drives the room they need to avoid you.
I have alot more fun where the drivers I an running with respect me enough to allow for small mistakes or incidents to not have a big impact on the race. As the comfort level gets higher the racing gets tighter and the amout of magine shrinks. But on a public server racing with people I am not very familure with I don't push it as close to the limits. So no I am not the most competitive on the server and it may take me a few races to get up near the front but once I am there I know I got there by being smart and patient not being a bullheaded dork like so many other people I have raced with.
Sure there are times when for what ever reason you can't get the car stoped and when that happnes you just run wide and give the other drives the room they need to avoid you.
And once again the failings of the sim comunity are clearly spelled out.
If I mis my braking point that I have no worries as I still have ample room to slow down and make the turn because I was smart and had the forthought to allow some margin for error unlike 95% of the people that race here and bitch when they get taped in the ass under braking because one of their fellow racers pulled the all to common bonehead move of not leaving any margin for error.
Growup and race smart. Then maybe T1 won't be just a cluster every single god dam race.
If I mis my braking point that I have no worries as I still have ample room to slow down and make the turn because I was smart and had the forthought to allow some margin for error unlike 95% of the people that race here and bitch when they get taped in the ass under braking because one of their fellow racers pulled the all to common bonehead move of not leaving any margin for error.
Growup and race smart. Then maybe T1 won't be just a cluster every single god dam race.
Bob I have to agree with you here, I never understood why the FXR and XRR did not also get a bigger more powerfull N/A engine instead of a bigger turbo. The reason I like the FZR so much is because of the lack of turbo lag and the lower torque. Its a peaky engine and I like those. Although there is a way to use the lag to your advantage. It just means you need to drive differently, for example get back on the gas earlier so that when you arrive at the place where you want power, you have it.
Cue-Ball I don't think they are going to get removed it after the in-compatable. From what Scawen was saying in this thread I now think the volentary weight and restrictor will remain and the global handicap will also remain. Scawen stated that he can change the global handicap in about 90 sec if there needs to be further tweaking down the road. By adding this system he has essentualy built in a way to allow for ongoing ballance without the need for a patch if more ballance is deamed nessasary.
In my testing with the AI I am finding the RB4 hhas the edge over the XRT by a small margin, and the FXO is still just too bloddy fast. I think most of the FXO's advantage at this point is its light weight and wide tires. It can still stop in less space and corner faster.
In my testing with the AI I am finding the RB4 hhas the edge over the XRT by a small margin, and the FXO is still just too bloddy fast. I think most of the FXO's advantage at this point is its light weight and wide tires. It can still stop in less space and corner faster.
Its a real byproduct of you FPS. The illusion is real and not an intentionaly modeled effect.
Its a simple effect to minic the second shadow that real cars cast. Cars cast one shadow from ambiant light and one from each direct light source. During the day this is mainly the sun. The more intense the direct light is the darker and shaprer the resulting shadow. We already ahve this shadow in LFS but we do not have the difuse shadow caused by ambiant light whis is present in real life. Adding a pre-rendered shadow that is scaled based on closeness to the ground is a very easy and visualy realistic way to mimic this in a simulated envirnment.
+1
+1
Ok since this is not apparently well known I will offer what info I do know about tires and why different compounds are used.
From what I have read and from what is offered in the work of RC racing which mimics what I have read in reguards to full scale racing tire compound choice is mainly used to match the tire used to the tempeture the tires till likely get to while racing. It has little to do with how long they last but that does come in to play as a byproduct.
Different compounds of tires are designed to reatch their optimal grip levels at specific tempetures. Since on any given race day and track the temp is different numerous compounds are offered. The tempetures that tires reach is a comdination of ambiant/track surface temp and the course design. A tighter course with lots of turns and short straights will heat the tires more then a more open course with few turns and long straights, but the ambient/track temp is the prime factor with course design being the contributing factor.
In LFS currently the ambient/track tempture is fixed and unchanging. As such only the track design contributes to tire temp diffrences along with driving style and setup. With this being the case we really do not need slicks that range from an optimal of 70c to 100c. The R2 tires at 80c are the softest we need and the R3 at 90c is almost too hard to be needed. The R1 and R4 are almost never used as they are too soft or too hard to based on the tempture variation we currently have. Personaly I would love to have a R2.5 with an optimal temp of 85c inplace of the R1 and R4.
As for visualy marking these I think the addition of a colored Rx designation on the sidewall would be nice.
From what I have read and from what is offered in the work of RC racing which mimics what I have read in reguards to full scale racing tire compound choice is mainly used to match the tire used to the tempeture the tires till likely get to while racing. It has little to do with how long they last but that does come in to play as a byproduct.
Different compounds of tires are designed to reatch their optimal grip levels at specific tempetures. Since on any given race day and track the temp is different numerous compounds are offered. The tempetures that tires reach is a comdination of ambiant/track surface temp and the course design. A tighter course with lots of turns and short straights will heat the tires more then a more open course with few turns and long straights, but the ambient/track temp is the prime factor with course design being the contributing factor.
In LFS currently the ambient/track tempture is fixed and unchanging. As such only the track design contributes to tire temp diffrences along with driving style and setup. With this being the case we really do not need slicks that range from an optimal of 70c to 100c. The R2 tires at 80c are the softest we need and the R3 at 90c is almost too hard to be needed. The R1 and R4 are almost never used as they are too soft or too hard to based on the tempture variation we currently have. Personaly I would love to have a R2.5 with an optimal temp of 85c inplace of the R1 and R4.
As for visualy marking these I think the addition of a colored Rx designation on the sidewall would be nice.
I still don't understand why we have more then one slick tire in LFS. Different compounds are mainly used to match the ambient and track tempetures. The warmer it is the harder tire you use as a softer tire will just over heat and wearout too fast. R2s are the only real tire we need right now based on thermal levels of the track in LFS. Other compounds will be needed when we get varying temps.
Weight Biasing and Intake restrictor plates might be a good way for us to generate the data needed to find the right steps to ballance the classes that are still not close enough. It would be most usefull for leagues and less so for public races without an insim app assigning these values. But it will be interestingnad welcome for sure. Neither would alter the physics so they would only be multiplayer incompatible.
While I woudl love to see a car like my Miata in the game as the way it drives is just great, it is definatly not in the same performance class as the UF1. It would kill the XF and XR and give the TBO class a good run for the money.
In stock trim its 128hp, 2200lbs 50/50 weight ballance.
In stock trim its 128hp, 2200lbs 50/50 weight ballance.
The one I am really waiting on is the RWD/AWD touring car. I loke the speed and feel of at class but really perfer a RWD over FWD. The caged and slick tire version of an LX would also be a very welcome and I am sure popular car. The RAC getting built in to a small GTR would also add some more varity to the class, small nimble but a little low on power.
Woudl also be usefull for driver training as I like to use cones to mark things like breaking zones, racing lines etc when I work with other drivers.
I was thinking more along the lines of endurance racing where there are multiple classes of cars on the track and the race is long enough that you will encounter traffic both faster and slower then you. A good driver that is faster then you will be able to effect a pass if you do not activly defend your position. If they can't then they do not deserver to pass you.
I have always been taught that when one car over takes another car it is always the responcibility of the overtaking driver to evict the pass in a clean and safe mannor. That means any contact or disruption of race is the overtaking drivers fault. The only condition put on the driver being over taken is to not block or unduely delay the over taking driver if they are under a blue flag.
If the driver being overtaken moves off the racing line or leaves extra room in the corner that is just being nice it is not required or expected of them though. Personaly in most cases I will take an outside line and brake a little early to allow the overtaking driver to oppertunity to slip inside and ahead under braking. This does require the overtaking driver to move inside for a pass attempt.
If the driver being overtaken moves off the racing line or leaves extra room in the corner that is just being nice it is not required or expected of them though. Personaly in most cases I will take an outside line and brake a little early to allow the overtaking driver to oppertunity to slip inside and ahead under braking. This does require the overtaking driver to move inside for a pass attempt.
Well all I can say is if you are having power lag in the turbo charged GTR cars or eating tires in any of them you are not driving the cars right. There are some very fast people in the XRR and FXR and I have seem them walk away from the FZR like its standing still.
Yes there is a delay between pressing the pedal and making power in the FXR and XRR but all that really means is you can get on the throttle sooner then the FZR. If you know there is a 0.5 sec depay before the turbo spins up then start applying throttle before you reatch the apex. The low power delay will allow you be be on the gas sooner and be making power the moment the car is ready for more power.
Each car is unique, learn to use its querks to your advantage and the other cars as well.
Yes there is a delay between pressing the pedal and making power in the FXR and XRR but all that really means is you can get on the throttle sooner then the FZR. If you know there is a 0.5 sec depay before the turbo spins up then start applying throttle before you reatch the apex. The low power delay will allow you be be on the gas sooner and be making power the moment the car is ready for more power.
Each car is unique, learn to use its querks to your advantage and the other cars as well.
Duke I am not talking about using the hand brake to enter a slide and that is a rather poor and noob way to enter a drift. The skills I am talking about are the one used to control and correct slides. Drifting will teach you the propper way to catch a slide, control it and recover it. Those three skills are very usefull to know for racing.
You can also use a drift to bleed speed in a corner or build heat in cold tires. I have used it to block passes and make passes on diffacult corners. My lap times improved after I took the time to practice drifting. I was no longer so timid with the car. I have the confidence that if I entered a corner too hot I could bleed the speed, if I lost the back end I could catch the slide and work with it. This added confidence allowed me to push the car more and as such I learned to use more of the cars handeling envelope.
Yes drifting is not the fastest way through a corner, but the same skills used in drifting have a place in racing.
But as I have said befor and other have you can't teach it with a computer lession, its one of those skills that you have to learn through lots and lots of practice.
You can also use a drift to bleed speed in a corner or build heat in cold tires. I have used it to block passes and make passes on diffacult corners. My lap times improved after I took the time to practice drifting. I was no longer so timid with the car. I have the confidence that if I entered a corner too hot I could bleed the speed, if I lost the back end I could catch the slide and work with it. This added confidence allowed me to push the car more and as such I learned to use more of the cars handeling envelope.
Yes drifting is not the fastest way through a corner, but the same skills used in drifting have a place in racing.
But as I have said befor and other have you can't teach it with a computer lession, its one of those skills that you have to learn through lots and lots of practice.
Yes learning to drift has benifits for grip racing as well. The question then becomes how do you code a simulator based lesson to teach this skill? I can not think of a good way.
I completely agree with you on this hyperactive. Learning to contole a slide (Drifting) has alowed me to explore more of the usefull slip angle while racing and taught me the correct methouds of catching a slide and recovering from it gracefully. But I do not see a way to use an driving lession in a computer simulation to really teach this kind of technique. There is just no easy way then to go out and read, feel, try and do.
Well before you can enforce flag rules the entire comunity needs to agree on what each flag means and what the approate reaction to it is or this needs to be defined by the devs.
The blue flag is one of those that really has a lot of different meanings to different people. To some it means get out of the lapping drivers way, to other it means hey there is a lapping driver approaching, drive a predictable line and give them room. I do not think you are going to get everyone to agree as the comunity is split down the middle. Because of this defining a "Black" flag is going to be diffacult if it pretains to blue flags.
My personal take on this is that the blue flag is nothing more then an indication to a driver that lapping traffic is approaching, drive in a predicible manner and leave room. With that definition the lapping driver then is responcible to safely passing the laped car when safe to do so. Now under a system like this I would define the rule that if the laped driver blocks or un-nessasarily delays the lapping driver then they should recieve a black flag resulting on a drive through penalty.
The problem then become how does a program detect the intentional blocking or delay of a lapping driver? I do not think it can. I have raced for several laps flirting with a blue flag and not had a lapping driver get close enough to effect a pass. In this case I am not delaying the driver nor blocking him. Another thing to consider is that taffic and slower drivers are a very real part of racing. They can and do become part of a smart racers strategy.
A smart racer can use traffic to effectly block another driver they are racing for position with, at the same time if a you are racing for position and a lapping driver approaches and you slide over to allow them past its very easy for the driver you are in a position battle with the slip in behind the lapping driver and pass you. In which case allowing the lapping driver to pass cost you a position battle. This happened alot to me in F12k2, the AI would even use this technique and it sucks hard.
The point is that very carful though needs to be put in to this. The people making the decision need to look at alot of different perspectives and how each rule can be exploited or how it may effect every one in every situation. If done without enough care and though it may cause more problems then is solves.
The blue flag is one of those that really has a lot of different meanings to different people. To some it means get out of the lapping drivers way, to other it means hey there is a lapping driver approaching, drive a predictable line and give them room. I do not think you are going to get everyone to agree as the comunity is split down the middle. Because of this defining a "Black" flag is going to be diffacult if it pretains to blue flags.
My personal take on this is that the blue flag is nothing more then an indication to a driver that lapping traffic is approaching, drive in a predicible manner and leave room. With that definition the lapping driver then is responcible to safely passing the laped car when safe to do so. Now under a system like this I would define the rule that if the laped driver blocks or un-nessasarily delays the lapping driver then they should recieve a black flag resulting on a drive through penalty.
The problem then become how does a program detect the intentional blocking or delay of a lapping driver? I do not think it can. I have raced for several laps flirting with a blue flag and not had a lapping driver get close enough to effect a pass. In this case I am not delaying the driver nor blocking him. Another thing to consider is that taffic and slower drivers are a very real part of racing. They can and do become part of a smart racers strategy.
A smart racer can use traffic to effectly block another driver they are racing for position with, at the same time if a you are racing for position and a lapping driver approaches and you slide over to allow them past its very easy for the driver you are in a position battle with the slip in behind the lapping driver and pass you. In which case allowing the lapping driver to pass cost you a position battle. This happened alot to me in F12k2, the AI would even use this technique and it sucks hard.
The point is that very carful though needs to be put in to this. The people making the decision need to look at alot of different perspectives and how each rule can be exploited or how it may effect every one in every situation. If done without enough care and though it may cause more problems then is solves.
Personaly I felt LFS was very close to reality when I was driving my little truck around on its not so sporty tires. Then I picked up a miata and my opinion changed some what. The tires and the way the react to the ground in LFS is still better then I have found in any other sim but is still not right. I have mentioned it in other threads and I thing the issue is that there is more overall grip then we have in reality but the tires overall regidity is too low. The best way I can describe this is that they feel more like they are zero pressure tires bolted to the rims then presurised tires held on to the rim. That is ofcourse also only part of the issue.
Running an autocross in my miata and doing the same in the XRG which is the cloest thing to the miata feel completely different even with nearly identicle setups. The tires are where this difference is. The way they load and unload through the solom feels weak, they seem to lack some springy-ness and they don't feel as if their grip is affected by loading in the least.
Running an autocross in my miata and doing the same in the XRG which is the cloest thing to the miata feel completely different even with nearly identicle setups. The tires are where this difference is. The way they load and unload through the solom feels weak, they seem to lack some springy-ness and they don't feel as if their grip is affected by loading in the least.
I still feel it is not an accurate reflection of a racers ability. I have a question for you though to try and put this in to peerspective.
How many times have you been the victom of an incident that threw a yellow flag?
Got me that number is high. I would have to guess that in the last year 3/4 of the yellow flags I have thrown have been because I was knocked out of a race by some one elses mistake. Whether that was getting punted off track when I was braking early to avoid the car in front of me, or being pushed off track by a barge passer, or throwing myself off the track to avoid contact with ongoing incident.
Now do these incidents mean I am a bad driver? No yet that reppresent a majority of the data that Becky's system is using. If she then takes the step to ban people with a higher yellow flag count and I have had a string of bad luck and been the victom in a lot of recent incidents then I coudl be unjustly punished with no way to protest as the data is not in context.
How many times have you been the victom of an incident that threw a yellow flag?
Got me that number is high. I would have to guess that in the last year 3/4 of the yellow flags I have thrown have been because I was knocked out of a race by some one elses mistake. Whether that was getting punted off track when I was braking early to avoid the car in front of me, or being pushed off track by a barge passer, or throwing myself off the track to avoid contact with ongoing incident.
Now do these incidents mean I am a bad driver? No yet that reppresent a majority of the data that Becky's system is using. If she then takes the step to ban people with a higher yellow flag count and I have had a string of bad luck and been the victom in a lot of recent incidents then I coudl be unjustly punished with no way to protest as the data is not in context.
I fully agree with GUNN on this one. I do not thing the systems, logic and data systems are in place within LFS to even come close to building a system that is accurate enough to be seen as a fair and equitable system. I am not sure but the numbers I see form looking at $myinfo make me believe that the number of "Yellow Flags" is not the number of times you have found yourself in a position to send a yellow flag for the nuumber of cars that have recieved the yellow flag packet because of you. In a 20 car race for a single incident this could be as high as 19 "Yellow Flag" tags for a single spin or pit out.
This is an area where LFS needs many improvemts before we can get a reliable penalty system for things like contact and full flag rules.
This is an area where LFS needs many improvemts before we can get a reliable penalty system for things like contact and full flag rules.
One of our local autocross sites is an unused runway at the Bremerton Airport. The course is laid-out on a few of the taxiways and a section of the runway. To make courses that are used on this site I would need an area that is 2000ft x 300ft.
It would be nice to just get an area of tarmac that is about 2000ft x 2000ft with a surounding fence, and nothing more. With an area this size we could build any auto-x layout or small race circuit that crossed our mind. Reducing the polly count of the envirnment could also allow for an increase in the number of placed objects maybe?
It would be nice to just get an area of tarmac that is about 2000ft x 2000ft with a surounding fence, and nothing more. With an area this size we could build any auto-x layout or small race circuit that crossed our mind. Reducing the polly count of the envirnment could also allow for an increase in the number of placed objects maybe?
nKPro models the starter and battery. If you crank the engine too many times with the ignition off your battery dies.
While LFS does not do every part of the physics engine the best, does not have the most eye catching graphics, and does not have the most stunning sound in the sim racing world, it has managed to build a blend that offers an experance like no other.
As other have said, this sim alone feel more like driving a real car then anything else I have driven, its graphics are not distracting and the sounds convey what information you need them to. Combine that with devs that are designing the sim they wany to use, the increadable comunity and the ease of use this sim offers and it become one very imersive sim, despite all the areas where it is not hte best in class.
This is one software package that is definitly more then the sum of its parts. It have found some magical ballance that just works and gets better with every version.
As other have said, this sim alone feel more like driving a real car then anything else I have driven, its graphics are not distracting and the sounds convey what information you need them to. Combine that with devs that are designing the sim they wany to use, the increadable comunity and the ease of use this sim offers and it become one very imersive sim, despite all the areas where it is not hte best in class.
This is one software package that is definitly more then the sum of its parts. It have found some magical ballance that just works and gets better with every version.
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