Quote from Blowtus :

What makes it unsafe? My rx7 has 60 profile tyres on it (similar to the xrt I guess) and it never has any problems on the limit of adhesion with high grip, performance tyres. Performance tyres are available in higher profiles.

The damgerous part is in running that tire at the same pressures that you would need to in the XRT. The tire size is not the issue, just the fact that the pressures needed to get propper heating are unrealistic for a soft sidewall tire, which in your real car would be dangerous and destructive to the tire.

I think anything under a 65 series tire is fine for performance driving given that the sidewall is stiff enough to not fold under corner loads when run at pressures required to achieve sufficent heating.

In LFS the tires sidewalls are not up to the task and will fold or distort greatly when run at pressures to allow for propper heating. Thats the main issue.

Thats true sinbad.

So long as the set is a little forgiving with a ballanced performance and handeling feel then I see no reason it would not work. The Default, Race, and Race_S setups are not a good example. Btu the diffacult part is in defigning a set that is useable by all and not favoring any one style of driving over another.

The only problem I see with a system like this is that every drivers has a different style of driving. There for some level of personalization should be implimented to allow for the car to be tweaked to some small degree.

The best compromise would be to allow only a few adjustments. I would thing that at the very minimum tire pressure shoudl still be adjustale. I think a better option would be to allow the server opperator to optionaly predetermine some settings and then lock out their adjustment. Things like gear ratios, spring, damper and ARB rates, camber and toe angles would realisticly be somthing that is restricted in orginised "stock" class racing.

A class system then restrics the level of car adjustability would be interesting to see implimented in the future.

There will be later but thats not a feature yet implimented. The different names are the base for building that feature.

My biggest issues is that the street tires used on the cars are more like cheep economy tires in reguards to size while profiding the grip levels of high performance tires. Combined this makes the tires feel weird. I don't know about the rest of you but safety is the bigest concern for me when running my car in a performance driving manner. Low profile, stiff sidewall soft compound tires are the way to go. You would never find me pushing my car to the edge if it had tires like a XRT on it. It would be unsafe as the sidewall flex woudl be unacceptable.

Very few cars in LFS are running low profile tires. The ones that are have better handeling characteristics then the ones with higher profile tires. This is most notible in the LX's they have masive sidewall flex at pressures needed to get the tires up close to temp. In the real world you would never run the pressures that low, it's just dangerous. On my street car I have to run the tires up near 40psi to keep the tires from rolling on to the sidewalls. These are 140mph rated 185/50 15s tires on a car that weighs 1100kg or so. On the XRT which weights more and has 75% more power I have to run pressues below 30psi to get the temps right, but sidewal flex is ugly to the poing of pulling the bead off the rim, visualy.

I think part of the problem is in the LFS tires construction, specs and the sizes used, the combination just is not realistic.

Ok I have not tested 34 yet but I have not seen this mentioned. There has been somthing bugging me about the engien sounds. I finaly pinned it down after some testing.

This has proved to not be the case, in initial testing. The rate of exhaust pop seems to be close at 8k RPMs in the LX6 with a timing of 20ms, 5 ms faster then it shoud be for an I6 at 8k.

First the pop that defignes the outrushing of exhaust gases seem to be slow in reguards to the engines RPMs. The engines in LFS do not sound like that are running at an idling speed until they reatch about 3k RPMs.



The second part is that the high range sounds are far too sutble while the low range sounds are far too strong. When I adjust my bass all the way down and the treble all the way up I start to get a nice mixing of tones and some interesting harmonics start to appear when I have the volume way up.

Last edited by Gimpster, Tue, 19 Dec 2006 21:19.

As a point of reference here is a link to a video of a honda S2000 equiped for performance. 2L inline 4, IRTB intake, tuned exhaust. This is what a track prepped street car can sound like. When I get the coin I am doing this to my miata.

Enjoy, and hope LFS can sound this good.

http://videos.streetfire.net/P ... 6B-4C36-92B3-88AD7020C61A

Quote from Hyperactive :

Imho, LFS has sounded pretty good on lower revs but the problem is the higher revs, especially the point just before upshift. This was the biggest problem with the FO8 (before U32). Just by listening to the sound I couldn't tell when to upshift, I had to completely rely on the shift light. What I was expecting the sound patch to concentrate on was mainly the high-revs stuff. I have always thought that what makes LFS sound "bad" is the higher revs stuff and I was a bit disappointed that most effort was put to change the sounds to something else and leaving the core of the problem untouched.

Yes you are right there, in LFS I have to rely on the shift light. Im my real car and on the motorcycle I use the sound of the engine more then the tach, hell my bike does not even have a tach. When you take a stock engine and open up the intake and exhaust the engine starts to take on a primal sound. The rumble grows as the engien rises and as you aproach the point of max power it starts to get rather dirty and chaotic. That is the audio key that its time to shift and like Hyperactive was saying that is whats missing in LFS.

Quote from joeynuggetz :

Has anyone been noticing pedal input problems with the patch? I'm not sure if my DFP pedals are dying or if it's LFS. I still have to test but I could have sworn that my foot was on the gas full throttle and the onscreen throttle display was maxxed yet the car sounded like it wasn't at full throttle. Could be a sound issue . I'll check the replay or see if I can reproduce it.

You are not the only one, I had a this happen a few time today as well. I also am unsure of its the peddles or the sim. In my case I thing its peddles though as I was not gettign any throttle responce untill I poped it a few times.

If I know scawen, and I think I do, anythng he does will have to be simulated in as realistic way as he can find. And just having a lot of layers of sound is not going to work right. You often get some really weird harmonics. The only way to avoid that is to simulate the sounds in the way they are generated in real life and this has been discussed at length in the suggstions forum many times.

The best system I have listend to is RBR habds down. There the engine is a living dynamic thing and damaging any little part will alter its power and sound in a realistic way. nKPro also has a very good base system. I am sure when LFS enters the S3 stage the sound and video aspects will come in to their own.

Touge is not just about drifting. Nore is only run in a run/chase format. Touge is a personal battle between drivers, nothing more. It started in the mountians of Japan when one driver would not allow another to pass. These battles have evolved since then and are run up-hill, down-hill, and roads that do go up and down, on both narrow and wider roads, twisty or more straight. Touge drivers use every style of driving when approate, its all about winning the race, so they drift where drift is faster and grip where grip is faster.

Touge is nothing more then a personal battle between two drivers, nothing more.

I feel that having it maped just makes it too easy to say and that alot of people have come to use it as a way to justify a rough bit of racing or in some cases out right disreguard for other racers. I don't thing saying sorry is a bad thing of itself just the way its now being used.

For small racing issues I just use smiles and frowns. Anythng more and I am forced to take a few second to admit guilt and let the other driver back ahead. For me not having it maped is an incentive to try that much harder to not have to say it.

I remember a time when there was meaning behind the work "Sorry". It was typed in to the chat window as a show of remorse for causing an incident or becoming an obsticle to be avioded. The time needed to type the simple word or phrase allowed for some meeningful show of sportmanship, or consesion for the transgression you just caused. But now is seems people have elevated its stature to a point where they assume the simple act of pressing a button on the keyboard to send the message is itself the show of remorse.

It seems these days that its ok to run in to someone, or take some one out of a race, pop a quick "Sorry" and continue on as if nothing happened. This is the reason why I no longer have a message of remorse maped to a key. If I happen to cause an incident that disrupts the race fro other people then I am forced to take the pressious few seconds to type out my appology, which in most cased allows the effected driver to recover and retake a position ahead of me. It also encourges me try that much harder to avoid putting myself in that situation.

If you are goign to say you are "Sorry" then mean it. Take a few seconds to type it out. If you don't mean it then just drive on as I really don't want to see your macroed appology anyways. So just like the overuse and uncalled for "Blue Flag" messages I urge you all to also put an end to "Sorry" messages. Being a good and sportmanlike racer means not having to say you are sorry.

I will not get a chance to test this until I get home tomarrow night but as for gear whine in a street car, my miata has audible gear whine above 50mph and it does have a rymthic harmonic pulsing at steady RPMs opperating on a 4-5 second cycle. I probaly hear it more being that it a close ratio trans in an open top car will little sound damping material.

Netcar and RBR/DR have nice take on the synthetic engine sound system. Its a multi-layered setup where som layers add new sounds and some alter the sound. Idealy it woudl be somthign like this: The begining sound is just the moment of detonation in the cylinder, add to this valve/cam noises, belt noise and intake noise and then pass it through a filter/amplifier based on load contidions and a second filter/resonator for the exhaust. Transmission whine, tire humm, wind noise, and other sounds are seperate related but non-blended sounds.

But thats in an ideal world.

Sorry AdamAnt,

I will be at work and unable to attend.

Maybe next year I will be back on a normal work schedule.

The physics model is not advanced enought to simulate rough and soft surfaces yet. The pieces to make it work are probaly not in there or it would have already been modeled. When we get to that point it will add a lot of added depth to the physics but we are nto there yet.

Do do it right the ground needs to be soft and deformable and have a very small mesh size or use a shader to simulate the rough and playable surfaces.

Corner cutting is easy to identify and its also easy to detect if the off was not intended. Simple rule is that an off requires a reduction in speed and throttle application. Do not slow then you get flagged for cutting. Do slow and you don't. Cut to many times and you get flaged. Cutting with a lift counts for 1/4 the value of a non lift. Set the threshold at 3 or so. Hell if ISI can program a working flag rule then it can be done here even with in/out sim.

Quote from Gunn :

This is still not racing even though points can be gained or rounds won by overtaking. There is no race drifting: period.

Well thats not exactly true Gunn now is it. Drifting has its roots in both rally and mountian racing and in both those cases it most certinly is racing. Even super bike racers are starting to learn that drifting is some times the fastest line through a corner. Its just most race tracks and those in LFS are not designed in such a way as to require drifting to get the fastest times, aside from the rallycross layouts.

I build all my own sets and use the Race_S as the base.

The baggage and overhead that comes with Vista is not worth the improvments in my opinion.

Quote from AndroidXP :

Really? Which ones?

Well lets see, nKPro is starting to get its act togeather, Driver's Republic is beter then I would have thought before I tried it and I hear iRacing is turning out quite well from the info that is filtering out of its closed beta.

Racing Legends is a dead project that was increable in concept and apparen't too far ahead of its time.

I think the way in which cars are setup in LFS is overly simplified, partly because seting up a real car is a diffacult and frustrating process and because I thing its there to hide the fact that there are holes in the suspension physics.

In LFS the one things we see and can adjust are the final mesuable settings not the adjustment points in the suspension geomitry. In addition to that adjusting say the camber or ridehight does not effect toe. This would only be the case in a real life car of the adjustments for camber were made around a piviot point that is at the same relitive location as the steering link which I have never seen as the case on a real car.

My only possible conclusion is that LFS does not have fully interlinked suspension geomity, thus we can not use the adjustment points for setup changes and we do not have suspension geomitry that reacts as it would in a real car. That is why the cars feel not quite right and why some adjustments don't seem to have the rigth effect on handeling.

There is a reason why you do things ina certian order on a real car because some adjustments affect others. Ride hight affects camber which inturn affects toe and ackerman. In LFS only ride hight and camber seem to be interlinked as far as the setup screen goes.

Its sad to see the progress on LFS slow down, it once seemed like the perfict sim to me but over the years the development track has diverged from the directions I was hoping it would take and slowed to a crawl. New cometitors are starting to pop up and look to be poised to quickly catch and pass LFS as the example of how a sim should be. I just wonder how much longer LFS can hold on to its lead.

Waiting for LFS to improve in some way. The road car classes are not ballanced and the sidewall flex makes setting up the cars the right way right, a futile struggle. The open wheel cars do not appeal to me. The GTR class is a bit boring as its always on AS National and the non-down force class is FWD only. So I am waiting for somthing to happen, see you when the physics improve or we get a RWD in the non-downforce racing class of cars. Until then its RBR, waiting for nKPro to get updated, and beta testing Driver's Republic.

The main issue is that currently the "driving aids" should not make you faster or let you do anything faster. The way some of the "driving aids" are implimented now, makes using them an advantage. If that advantage was tempered out then it would not matter if they were used and allowed or not. Thats the change that needed to happen. I used to be one of the people calling for more options to restrict server access, I have since changed my mind as that is not the solution to the issue at hand.

I feel public servers should remain open and freely accessable to the entire comunity, private servers and leagues shoudl be able to do what ever they want, so if these optional restrictions are put in place then implimenting them should automaticly require a servers to be passworded. I do not think it would be amy more diffacult on the server opperators to do this. Hell you could even all used the same password like the CRC. But like the CRC I don't think this option will have much use or need.