Its all about traction managment. You tires only have a finite amout of traction which is modified by the amout of weight/load they are under. Trail Braking is a technique where you slowly shift the avalable grip from braking to turning. This allows for faster corner entry and deeper braking. The side effect is that you can also hold more load on the frot tires to aid in cornering grip. There are some problems if you don't manage the avalable grip though. Entering too fast can cause you to understeer from two different conditions. Either over loading the front tires or under loading them. Its a tough ballancing act, but getting it right can make a big difference in lap times. Get it wrong and you lap times will be even slower then a simple slow-in fast-out cornering technique.
Not all corners are approate for this type of technique. Constant radius corners and decreasing radius corners ar the best place to apply it, but increasing radius corners work better with a slow-in fast-out technique combined with a late entry late apex line. You also need to look at what leads in to the corner and what is beyond the corner. For example if you have a long straight leading in to a tight section its is benifitial to carry as much speed as deep in to the corner as you can. On the other hand if its a corner exiting a slow section and leading on to a straight then maximixing exiting speed is key. So look at the track, look at what leads in to and whats beyond the corner, look at the corners geomitry and apply the more approate technique to each corner and corner complex.
Not all corners are approate for this type of technique. Constant radius corners and decreasing radius corners ar the best place to apply it, but increasing radius corners work better with a slow-in fast-out technique combined with a late entry late apex line. You also need to look at what leads in to the corner and what is beyond the corner. For example if you have a long straight leading in to a tight section its is benifitial to carry as much speed as deep in to the corner as you can. On the other hand if its a corner exiting a slow section and leading on to a straight then maximixing exiting speed is key. So look at the track, look at what leads in to and whats beyond the corner, look at the corners geomitry and apply the more approate technique to each corner and corner complex.
If we get and inproved Clutch and Transmission simulation then I am all for a total hardcore mode. Right now though the way the clutch, transmission and shifting feel is tough to judge and awakword for me. In nKPro I use a button clutch because it accualy fells right. LFS is still not to that point yet where the sim helps make using the clutch intunitive like nKPro.
Slip angles are only part of the issue. I thing the lateral grip curves are close. Longitudinal curves are not right. Pressure and its effects on heating are still a problem as are pressure and its effect on sidewall flex. Those issues are more out of ballance then the grip curves. Did not vote.
I just never really liked open wheel. The car is not too hard to drive, it does wear you out pretty fast with the amount of attention you have to pay it, but it not too hard.
Thats because they are not forced to runn pressures soo low as to break the bead on the tires to get propper heating. Adding the ability to break the dead on a tire in LFS would encourge people to use more realistic pressure settings.
Define "A long Time" please? It appears that you have been apart of the forum comunity for a whole 3 months. To me this is not a long time. If i had the money I would buy every racer who wants a license one, but I am unfortunatly not made of money and need to fix my car before tossing out licenses on a whim. Perhaps some other racer will take pity on you this Christmas, but you may need to come up with a better reason.
Sorry I am unable to fullfill your Christmas wish this year.
Sorry I am unable to fullfill your Christmas wish this year.
I do not feel the distortion is wrong for the pressures being run. I do feel that the pressures are incorrect for the thermal buildup they are currently making. Currently in the road tires they do not generate enough heat for a given pressure and in the slicks they generate too much heat for a given pressure. But yes when running low pressures or if you get a flat I think the tire sould be able to shread or come off the rims.
I think this will be adressed when the final damage model is built out.
I think this will be adressed when the final damage model is built out.
If I remember correctly it was said long ago that dirt, grass and rubber would eventualy be able to accumulate on the track as will water when we get weather. These features are not somthing on the table for S2 though and are not going to be considered until S3.
Adding Exhaust is easy to mod and has been done, look in the mods forum.
Tuning the engine is somthing that has been debated many times in this forum and in the end I think that the only way this could be done so that its not somthing that detracts from the online racing would be to allow people to adjust the shape of the HP and Torque curves while not altering the max HP and Torque values of the cars. In this way people could tune the power curves to best suit the track or type of race as well as the way they drive.
Adding Exhaust is easy to mod and has been done, look in the mods forum.
Tuning the engine is somthing that has been debated many times in this forum and in the end I think that the only way this could be done so that its not somthing that detracts from the online racing would be to allow people to adjust the shape of the HP and Torque curves while not altering the max HP and Torque values of the cars. In this way people could tune the power curves to best suit the track or type of race as well as the way they drive.
Last edited by Gimpster, .
Yes and no. I think its partly that the static and sliding friction levels are not quite right and partly in the way traction is lost and regained. I am sure its a dam complex series of equasions and LFS's physics may not be of sufficent complexity yet to accuratly simulate these conditions right now. Increasing the static friction and lowering the sliding friction may resolve this issue but may then introduce yet more issues in to the physics model.
All tires have a slip angle at which point they achieve their maximum friction levels. Its higher then their static friction level, but once that threshhold is passed the tire will sharply drop in its effective friction to a degree and then slowly fall away even more. Radial-ply tires have a less sharp edge with lower slip angles while bias-ply tires allow for higher effective slip anqels but have a sharper edge. What allows a car to do a standing burnout has as much to do with how quickly the engine can transfer the needed torque to the tires to overcome the friction holding them to the tarmak as it does with the difference between sliding friction and static friction.
Your SUV has a very torquey engine with an early torque peak, where many of the cars in LFS are of a low torque/high HP configuration with a later torque peak. Granted in LFS the difference in grip levels from a sliding tire and a non-sliding tire are still too close.
All tires have a slip angle at which point they achieve their maximum friction levels. Its higher then their static friction level, but once that threshhold is passed the tire will sharply drop in its effective friction to a degree and then slowly fall away even more. Radial-ply tires have a less sharp edge with lower slip angles while bias-ply tires allow for higher effective slip anqels but have a sharper edge. What allows a car to do a standing burnout has as much to do with how quickly the engine can transfer the needed torque to the tires to overcome the friction holding them to the tarmak as it does with the difference between sliding friction and static friction.
Your SUV has a very torquey engine with an early torque peak, where many of the cars in LFS are of a low torque/high HP configuration with a later torque peak. Granted in LFS the difference in grip levels from a sliding tire and a non-sliding tire are still too close.
Last edited by Gimpster, .
Lacroix,
Here is my advice. Whether you take it to heart or not is your choice as some agree and some disagree.
Learn to drive with as few driving aids as your setup will allow you to. If you get the G25 then turn all the aids off and do it all on your own. You will have a steep learning curve but in the end you will thank yourself for doing so. Also speed is not somthing you can directly work on, it is just a byproduct of the things you can work on. I would first start with a low end slow car such as the XFG (FWD) or XRG (RWD) and learn to effectly use the control setup you have so it becomes second nature and you no longer need to think about your controls while driving.
Next start to learn the tracks and find your braking points and the different lines through the corners. Do not just practice the fastest lines, you need to know how to drive the less then ideal lines as well because when you find yourself trying to pass, being passed or missing your braking points, knowing how to drive through that corner off the racing line will save your arse and allow you to retain control. Once you feel you have a good handle on things go ahead and pop online and race, paying close attention to the other drivers, watching them and following them can lead to some great insites in to the way some cars handle or may reveal racing lines you had not considered.
Consistancy, Versitility and Good Racing Lines will lead to faster times. Being aware and respectfull of the other drivers and not using them as braking and turning aids will make you a welcomed racer.
Welcome to the addiction and I hope you have as much fun here as most of us do.
Here is my advice. Whether you take it to heart or not is your choice as some agree and some disagree.
Learn to drive with as few driving aids as your setup will allow you to. If you get the G25 then turn all the aids off and do it all on your own. You will have a steep learning curve but in the end you will thank yourself for doing so. Also speed is not somthing you can directly work on, it is just a byproduct of the things you can work on. I would first start with a low end slow car such as the XFG (FWD) or XRG (RWD) and learn to effectly use the control setup you have so it becomes second nature and you no longer need to think about your controls while driving.
Next start to learn the tracks and find your braking points and the different lines through the corners. Do not just practice the fastest lines, you need to know how to drive the less then ideal lines as well because when you find yourself trying to pass, being passed or missing your braking points, knowing how to drive through that corner off the racing line will save your arse and allow you to retain control. Once you feel you have a good handle on things go ahead and pop online and race, paying close attention to the other drivers, watching them and following them can lead to some great insites in to the way some cars handle or may reveal racing lines you had not considered.
Consistancy, Versitility and Good Racing Lines will lead to faster times. Being aware and respectfull of the other drivers and not using them as braking and turning aids will make you a welcomed racer.
Welcome to the addiction and I hope you have as much fun here as most of us do.
Last edited by Gimpster, .
A spinning sliding tire still ahs too muck traction in LFS then a tire not sliding. In the case of a burnout the traction loss when the rear tires are spinning is not enough to prevent the front tires from sliding as well. This issue appears in other ways as well, like the way in which tire loose and regain grip. The elastisity seems to be inaccurate so there is no snap to the way tires loose and regain grip. But its dificult to explain in words.
Think of it as a place holder for a future gage when we need a new one later when we get more detailed engine simulation and failures.
I have no problems with the "Option" for servers to enforce fixed setup (Stock) racing if they choose to.
I honestly had no idea I had that much impact on you. Its nice to know my time spent trying to share my knowlage while in GURU had a positive impact.
That is gearbox whine, in reverse in a real car. Those of you that also race RC cars and have for some time probaly also know the gear pitch also playes a big part in the sound generated from a gearset. Lower pitch gears make more noise. Its possible that the reversing gearset is just a low pitch set for high strength and not ment to be run very fast.
Kieran20,
I would highly recomend taking the time to learn how to setup the cars in LFS. Having the knowlage is work more then just the ability to setup your own car. Knowing why a car does what it does can also help you drive better, teach you how to make the car do what you want, etc. As en example both brakes & throttle or the combied use of both can cause either oversteer, understeer in the right situations or be used to stabilize the car, or destabilize it. While a set will go a long way to improving your speed and times it will only get you so far. The understanding what the car is doing and why, combined with the ability to use that knowlage is what allows you to extrack all the avalable performance out of any given set.
I would highly recomend taking the time to learn how to setup the cars in LFS. Having the knowlage is work more then just the ability to setup your own car. Knowing why a car does what it does can also help you drive better, teach you how to make the car do what you want, etc. As en example both brakes & throttle or the combied use of both can cause either oversteer, understeer in the right situations or be used to stabilize the car, or destabilize it. While a set will go a long way to improving your speed and times it will only get you so far. The understanding what the car is doing and why, combined with the ability to use that knowlage is what allows you to extrack all the avalable performance out of any given set.
Some times lag allows objests to occupy the same space. When this happens and te engine realizes this you get backlash.
The damgerous part is in running that tire at the same pressures that you would need to in the XRT. The tire size is not the issue, just the fact that the pressures needed to get propper heating are unrealistic for a soft sidewall tire, which in your real car would be dangerous and destructive to the tire.
I think anything under a 65 series tire is fine for performance driving given that the sidewall is stiff enough to not fold under corner loads when run at pressures required to achieve sufficent heating.
In LFS the tires sidewalls are not up to the task and will fold or distort greatly when run at pressures to allow for propper heating. Thats the main issue.
Thats true sinbad.
So long as the set is a little forgiving with a ballanced performance and handeling feel then I see no reason it would not work. The Default, Race, and Race_S setups are not a good example. Btu the diffacult part is in defigning a set that is useable by all and not favoring any one style of driving over another.
So long as the set is a little forgiving with a ballanced performance and handeling feel then I see no reason it would not work. The Default, Race, and Race_S setups are not a good example. Btu the diffacult part is in defigning a set that is useable by all and not favoring any one style of driving over another.
The only problem I see with a system like this is that every drivers has a different style of driving. There for some level of personalization should be implimented to allow for the car to be tweaked to some small degree.
The best compromise would be to allow only a few adjustments. I would thing that at the very minimum tire pressure shoudl still be adjustale. I think a better option would be to allow the server opperator to optionaly predetermine some settings and then lock out their adjustment. Things like gear ratios, spring, damper and ARB rates, camber and toe angles would realisticly be somthing that is restricted in orginised "stock" class racing.
A class system then restrics the level of car adjustability would be interesting to see implimented in the future.
The best compromise would be to allow only a few adjustments. I would thing that at the very minimum tire pressure shoudl still be adjustale. I think a better option would be to allow the server opperator to optionaly predetermine some settings and then lock out their adjustment. Things like gear ratios, spring, damper and ARB rates, camber and toe angles would realisticly be somthing that is restricted in orginised "stock" class racing.
A class system then restrics the level of car adjustability would be interesting to see implimented in the future.
There will be later but thats not a feature yet implimented. The different names are the base for building that feature.
My biggest issues is that the street tires used on the cars are more like cheep economy tires in reguards to size while profiding the grip levels of high performance tires. Combined this makes the tires feel weird. I don't know about the rest of you but safety is the bigest concern for me when running my car in a performance driving manner. Low profile, stiff sidewall soft compound tires are the way to go. You would never find me pushing my car to the edge if it had tires like a XRT on it. It would be unsafe as the sidewall flex woudl be unacceptable.
Very few cars in LFS are running low profile tires. The ones that are have better handeling characteristics then the ones with higher profile tires. This is most notible in the LX's they have masive sidewall flex at pressures needed to get the tires up close to temp. In the real world you would never run the pressures that low, it's just dangerous. On my street car I have to run the tires up near 40psi to keep the tires from rolling on to the sidewalls. These are 140mph rated 185/50 15s tires on a car that weighs 1100kg or so. On the XRT which weights more and has 75% more power I have to run pressues below 30psi to get the temps right, but sidewal flex is ugly to the poing of pulling the bead off the rim, visualy.
I think part of the problem is in the LFS tires construction, specs and the sizes used, the combination just is not realistic.
Very few cars in LFS are running low profile tires. The ones that are have better handeling characteristics then the ones with higher profile tires. This is most notible in the LX's they have masive sidewall flex at pressures needed to get the tires up close to temp. In the real world you would never run the pressures that low, it's just dangerous. On my street car I have to run the tires up near 40psi to keep the tires from rolling on to the sidewalls. These are 140mph rated 185/50 15s tires on a car that weighs 1100kg or so. On the XRT which weights more and has 75% more power I have to run pressues below 30psi to get the temps right, but sidewal flex is ugly to the poing of pulling the bead off the rim, visualy.
I think part of the problem is in the LFS tires construction, specs and the sizes used, the combination just is not realistic.
Ok I have not tested 34 yet but I have not seen this mentioned. There has been somthing bugging me about the engien sounds. I finaly pinned it down after some testing.
This has proved to not be the case, in initial testing. The rate of exhaust pop seems to be close at 8k RPMs in the LX6 with a timing of 20ms, 5 ms faster then it shoud be for an I6 at 8k.
First the pop that defignes the outrushing of exhaust gases seem to be slow in reguards to the engines RPMs. The engines in LFS do not sound like that are running at an idling speed until they reatch about 3k RPMs.
The second part is that the high range sounds are far too sutble while the low range sounds are far too strong. When I adjust my bass all the way down and the treble all the way up I start to get a nice mixing of tones and some interesting harmonics start to appear when I have the volume way up.
This has proved to not be the case, in initial testing. The rate of exhaust pop seems to be close at 8k RPMs in the LX6 with a timing of 20ms, 5 ms faster then it shoud be for an I6 at 8k.
First the pop that defignes the outrushing of exhaust gases seem to be slow in reguards to the engines RPMs. The engines in LFS do not sound like that are running at an idling speed until they reatch about 3k RPMs.
The second part is that the high range sounds are far too sutble while the low range sounds are far too strong. When I adjust my bass all the way down and the treble all the way up I start to get a nice mixing of tones and some interesting harmonics start to appear when I have the volume way up.
Last edited by Gimpster, .
As a point of reference here is a link to a video of a honda S2000 equiped for performance. 2L inline 4, IRTB intake, tuned exhaust. This is what a track prepped street car can sound like. When I get the coin I am doing this to my miata.
Enjoy, and hope LFS can sound this good.
http://videos.streetfire.net/P ... 6B-4C36-92B3-88AD7020C61A
Enjoy, and hope LFS can sound this good.
http://videos.streetfire.net/P ... 6B-4C36-92B3-88AD7020C61A
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG