Well they will still work, but will be far less effective and have some negitive effects. Running with a nose high set will still mean less downforce but the amount of lifting force counteracting the downforce of the undertray will be correctly caculated and applied, resulting in a smaller advantage, which will also have the disadvantage of reducing grip.
The two sims are aimed at different groups of people. LFS is a great racing sim which covers a more broad offering of car types, has good physics and execelent online and player accesability. nKPro is aimed at the more hard core sim racer where realism is more important then easy of use, has a narrower offering of car types, until the devkit is released.
When I just want to log in a race I will load up LFS. When I am looking for a serious racing experance I will load nKPro and plan to spend some time. They both have a place in the comunity, they both will have their strengths and in the end I do not think either will detract from the best aspects of the other.
I will be racing with both.
When I just want to log in a race I will load up LFS. When I am looking for a serious racing experance I will load nKPro and plan to spend some time. They both have a place in the comunity, they both will have their strengths and in the end I do not think either will detract from the best aspects of the other.
I will be racing with both.
nKPro has an interesting solution to the quality issue of user created content. Charge for the dev tools. Only serous modders will pay the cost and ensure quality content is released.
LFS is not support or allow user created cars and tracks until after S2 is final or the sim is abandoned by the devs, plain and simple. It has nothing to do with the potential quality of user created mods, licencing issues are any other reason mentioned here. There is one simple reason and nothing we say can or will change then fact, its a dead subject.
What is the difference between then Demo of LFS and S2? It not the features, its not he physics, its the content, the cars and tracks. Now with the only thing you are buying being the cars and tracks, where does that leave the devs if they allow you to make your own cars and tracks?
It leaves them no longer in control of their sim, their dream, their lively hood. It would mean then end of development of LFS and the physics would never improve, new features will never get added and you would have a half finished sim for which you can build cars and tracks.
illepall
Personaly I would rather see the sim finished, with dam good physics, loads of useful features and when its finished a set of dev tools to build then cars and tracks I want to drive and drive on.
What is the difference between then Demo of LFS and S2? It not the features, its not he physics, its the content, the cars and tracks. Now with the only thing you are buying being the cars and tracks, where does that leave the devs if they allow you to make your own cars and tracks?
It leaves them no longer in control of their sim, their dream, their lively hood. It would mean then end of development of LFS and the physics would never improve, new features will never get added and you would have a half finished sim for which you can build cars and tracks.
illepall Personaly I would rather see the sim finished, with dam good physics, loads of useful features and when its finished a set of dev tools to build then cars and tracks I want to drive and drive on.
No problems on a ATI 9600XT 256.
Driver: 8.221.0.0
Driver: 8.221.0.0
It is not hard for a computer to make the judgement between intential and unintential cutting of corners. Its accually rather simple and effective. It need to just consider 2 things.
1) Did the car cross over then inside of a corner off the racing surface.
If yes Ask question 2.
If no end.
2) Did the car reduce throttle when that occured.
If yes end.
If no penalise.
You could then further refine the system to chech for the number of occurance per lap/race and warn or penalise accordingly.
So in the end this puts the driver completely in control of wether they become penalised or not, reguardless of whether the cut was intended, forced or simply an accident. All cuts are examined, all are penalised unless the driver reduces throttle/velocity when it occures. It has worked well for other sims and I see no problem with this system. You went off track whether you intended to or not now you have lost the right to the racing line or position battle. Lift, recover and continue or get penalised for cutting. The choice is yours.
1) Did the car cross over then inside of a corner off the racing surface.
If yes Ask question 2.
If no end.
2) Did the car reduce throttle when that occured.
If yes end.
If no penalise.
You could then further refine the system to chech for the number of occurance per lap/race and warn or penalise accordingly.
So in the end this puts the driver completely in control of wether they become penalised or not, reguardless of whether the cut was intended, forced or simply an accident. All cuts are examined, all are penalised unless the driver reduces throttle/velocity when it occures. It has worked well for other sims and I see no problem with this system. You went off track whether you intended to or not now you have lost the right to the racing line or position battle. Lift, recover and continue or get penalised for cutting. The choice is yours.
The site is in transition from one host to another so is off line. Not sure when that will be done or if the name will be the same. Blame Maverick for that one. :P
Cones, Tires and Corner Markers...
One of the bigest complaints I have with LFS is in reguards to these objects and how they behave in LFS. Most of them feel much heavier then they should be, react strangly when struct and have the ability to cause as much havoc or more then they are designed to prevent.
Traffc cones, pilons and corner markers are mearly visual clues for drivers. They are very light weight and should have little to no impact on a car, yet in LFS they can very easily upset a car to the point where they will poose traction of be turned. This needs to me fixed as they often find their way on to the racing surface. They need to be reduced in weight to the point where they do not affect car handeling if struct.
The bigger issue though I feel is the tires. The way they react is realistic but they use is not done in a safe way. These have been placed on the track to encourage drivers to not cut the corners, I can only asume they will at some point be replaced with propper cutting penalty system and be removed from the track. Until then though I feel a change needs to me made to them for the safty of as all. A way needs to be implimented to keed tire stacks off the roar surface. The most sencible in my mind is to teather them togeather and anchor the tire furthest fromt he track surface. If hit then they will rotate around the anchored tire in the direction they were hit but will not be able to roll on to the track surface to pose a hazard to following drivers.
Traffc cones, pilons and corner markers are mearly visual clues for drivers. They are very light weight and should have little to no impact on a car, yet in LFS they can very easily upset a car to the point where they will poose traction of be turned. This needs to me fixed as they often find their way on to the racing surface. They need to be reduced in weight to the point where they do not affect car handeling if struct.
The bigger issue though I feel is the tires. The way they react is realistic but they use is not done in a safe way. These have been placed on the track to encourage drivers to not cut the corners, I can only asume they will at some point be replaced with propper cutting penalty system and be removed from the track. Until then though I feel a change needs to me made to them for the safty of as all. A way needs to be implimented to keed tire stacks off the roar surface. The most sencible in my mind is to teather them togeather and anchor the tire furthest fromt he track surface. If hit then they will rotate around the anchored tire in the direction they were hit but will not be able to roll on to the track surface to pose a hazard to following drivers.
I would just like to add that the fastest drive does not always win.
The white car despite being faster did not have enough overlap at the turn in to be awarded room thoug the corner. The Blue 7's rear tire hit the White 7's front, clearly less then 50% overlap was achieved. This was entirely the fault of the White 7 though if the Blue 7 had ben paying mre attention he could have left room easily. It was a pissing match, and the White 7 had better postition to come out of it ahead of contact was made. It was and he did. Dirty, dirty, dirty.
I am sure that most of the people asking for a way to make the sim more hardcore do not want it to be the only way LFS can be. I still enjoy racing in less strict races/sprints, but some times I am in the mode for some close clean serious racing. The ability to setup a server to carter to this crowd enable LFS to cater to a wider slice of the population.
I don't want to see LFS become in accesable to any group, drifters, banger racing, auto cross, stunt drivers, KBers, Mousers the casual racer or the hard core racers. I would just like the ability to setup a server to cater more effectivly to each different group. So that people intrested in one type of racing over another can build a place to do so, without having to make it private and then screen people or distribute passwords, etc.
I don't want to see LFS become in accesable to any group, drifters, banger racing, auto cross, stunt drivers, KBers, Mousers the casual racer or the hard core racers. I would just like the ability to setup a server to cater more effectivly to each different group. So that people intrested in one type of racing over another can build a place to do so, without having to make it private and then screen people or distribute passwords, etc.
The best theory I can come up with is this:
Grip is perportional to speed differential.
Since the tires rapidly loose grip as the speed differance of the tire and the surface it is in contact with increeses, then it only hold true the you will gain grip back at the same rate as the speed differences lessen.
This is not a liner equasion though but a cuve.
At least that is my theory and seems to be correct from seat of the pants feel in the real world.
Grip is perportional to speed differential.
Since the tires rapidly loose grip as the speed differance of the tire and the surface it is in contact with increeses, then it only hold true the you will gain grip back at the same rate as the speed differences lessen.
This is not a liner equasion though but a cuve.
At least that is my theory and seems to be correct from seat of the pants feel in the real world.
Perhaps it's time to impliment a good back up routine for the inevitable "Opps, dad I didn't meen to, but I think I erased you hard drive." 
You are welcome. I knew with the right information you would figure it out.
I agree that this is not somthing that needs to be implimented LFS wide but rather a server option for those that want a more serious feel to their online racing. We don't want to remove features that attract different crowds, just add more options for those that want them.
I still have fun in the not so sportman like races. It's great practice for my incident avoindance, perdiction and control skills. But some times I would like to race on a server where every one knows that its better to back off a bit and save the car for a better oppertunity.
I wish I had the time for a regular league but with my schedule and car preference its been difacult to find a league that will work for me.
I still have fun in the not so sportman like races. It's great practice for my incident avoindance, perdiction and control skills. But some times I would like to race on a server where every one knows that its better to back off a bit and save the car for a better oppertunity.
I wish I had the time for a regular league but with my schedule and car preference its been difacult to find a league that will work for me.
Are you running the server behind a router or firewall. If so you need to open a port or port range to allow LFS to talk to the master server. If it can not then your server will not appear in the list.
The port or port range should be detailed in the readme file.
The port or port range should be detailed in the readme file.
Time for LFS to grow some teeth.
I know this is not the frist thread on the subject but the point keeps getting lost. Damage was added to S2 to reduce the ammount of wall riding and wreching we see while racing. To some degree it worked. But we have grown use to the damage system and I feel its time for bark to gain some teeth.
Crashing needs to become painful to the point where it becomes feared. Whether that means no warping to the pits, no restarting, no rejoing a race in progress, reduced repair ability in the pits, etc. The only way people will start to drive within their abilities and not constantly pushing the very edge is to make exceeding that edge have potentialy hard penalties. People right now are always trying to attack every corner, braking zone, passing oppertunity etc, with no room for error. This is what leads to most of the wrecks and restart requests.
So until the devs can make it more painful its up to us to do so and we have few tools to accomplish this with. The only way I can see to address this now is to setup some servers in the comunity that do not allow restarts, mid race joinging and are runnng long races. Its either that or we will have to just deal with the restarts and the first corner = win mentality that exists in almost all short races.
Crashing needs to become painful to the point where it becomes feared. Whether that means no warping to the pits, no restarting, no rejoing a race in progress, reduced repair ability in the pits, etc. The only way people will start to drive within their abilities and not constantly pushing the very edge is to make exceeding that edge have potentialy hard penalties. People right now are always trying to attack every corner, braking zone, passing oppertunity etc, with no room for error. This is what leads to most of the wrecks and restart requests.
So until the devs can make it more painful its up to us to do so and we have few tools to accomplish this with. The only way I can see to address this now is to setup some servers in the comunity that do not allow restarts, mid race joinging and are runnng long races. Its either that or we will have to just deal with the restarts and the first corner = win mentality that exists in almost all short races.
There is a bug with midrace join though. If every leaves the race and no one finishes then the server is locked until an admin can free it. You can only vote to end or restart if you are on the track, but you can't get on the track because a race is in progress. Its a visious cycle.
The whole system needs to be re-evaluated. The laps completeld=voting weight is a good idea. That added to a revamp of the race joinging rules would probaly be the most effective and simple solution.
In the mean time, if you want to attract more dedicated good drivers, put up a server with longer races, no mid join and voting restrictions.
To the person who wanted to use two of these to get 6 screens. I think that it will given that each can be connected to its one video output from the computer. So in essance each of the computers video outputs could be turned in to 3. Humm... Nvidia make a quad output workstation card, 3*4=12 
Travelled distance:31177 Mi
Fuel burnt:22931.62 Ltr
Fuel burnt:22931.62 Ltr
I am still here, kicking and preaching the LFS gospal. My friends call me a LFS evangilist. I joined a long time ago. Was a while before I joind the fourms though. The first version I installed I think was 0.1i, j or k.
In the end its all a ballancing act. You tires have a finite amount of grip to use for braking, cornering and accelerating. Personaly I brake a little early, and smoothly transision to my indended line.
I also toss the car in to the corners a bit to step out the back ever so slightly thus scrubbing off even more speed at the expence of tire heat and wear. This does have an additional advantage of pointing my nose deeper in to the corner and allows me to get back on the gas earlier or harder then a more traditional line.
Every corner is different, every car is different. You just have to find what works for you and run with it. The more at ease with a line or technique you are the more confident you are and you will find yourself pushing the limits. Tiny changes in Line, Set or Technique can have dramatic changes on lap times. The saying you have to slow down to go faster is not false.
Smoothness will lead to consistancy, consistancy will lead to confidence, consistance will lead to faster time. So be smooth, be consistant, speed will come in places you least expect.
I also toss the car in to the corners a bit to step out the back ever so slightly thus scrubbing off even more speed at the expence of tire heat and wear. This does have an additional advantage of pointing my nose deeper in to the corner and allows me to get back on the gas earlier or harder then a more traditional line.
Every corner is different, every car is different. You just have to find what works for you and run with it. The more at ease with a line or technique you are the more confident you are and you will find yourself pushing the limits. Tiny changes in Line, Set or Technique can have dramatic changes on lap times. The saying you have to slow down to go faster is not false.
Smoothness will lead to consistancy, consistancy will lead to confidence, consistance will lead to faster time. So be smooth, be consistant, speed will come in places you least expect.
The official word is maybe, but definatly not until S3 is considered final. Up to that point the tools used to make LFS are in a constant state of change just like LFS. So when S3 is final they may polish and release the tools for the comunity to continue building cars and tracks. There is not a yes or no yet, just a maybe.
Wow this is getting a bit out of hand. In orginized racing it's not about who has the better car, it about putting drivers in very similar vehicles with a defigned performance range and letting them prove who is the better driver, not who has the better car. LFS is a Racing Simulator, as such it is designed to simulate the compitition between driver's skill.
I understand the desire to tweak and tune your cars. Most people in to drag and street racing are as the car is am important factor. For those that participate in more officialy sactioned and orginized racing the cars have to conform to the rules outlined by the governing body. Think of the limits in what we can do with the cars in LFS as those rules.
Until servers can classify and limit vehicles based on pervormance envelops, allowing people to alter the performance of the cars in LFS will only lead to non compettitive races between dis-similar vehicles. I am not saying it should never be in, just that the tools and constraints to make them viable and keep then under control need to be implimented first.
I have said my peace.
I understand the desire to tweak and tune your cars. Most people in to drag and street racing are as the car is am important factor. For those that participate in more officialy sactioned and orginized racing the cars have to conform to the rules outlined by the governing body. Think of the limits in what we can do with the cars in LFS as those rules.
Until servers can classify and limit vehicles based on pervormance envelops, allowing people to alter the performance of the cars in LFS will only lead to non compettitive races between dis-similar vehicles. I am not saying it should never be in, just that the tools and constraints to make them viable and keep then under control need to be implimented first.
I have said my peace.
No it will be a two wheeled fire breathing beast of iron and steel. Just need to strip my bike down a bit and I am golden.
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG