Quote from dawesdust_12 :

Good Riddance.

Don't you have a MacBookPro to make love to or something.........

Kidding... Just Kidding...

Jay Odom

Quote from deggis :

Not just you. Have been down since yesterday, at least

ps. http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com

Thanks... LOL that is the best online tool ever!

Jay

Edit: I heard a rumor that it could be down for good???
JUST a RUMOR!! I don't know Anything!!!

Has anyone else noticed that Racesimcentral is down?

Or is it just me?

1-28-2009 @ 2:30am GMT

Quote from Niels Heusinkveld :

Well you're certainly not alone, I've always wanted sims to include a ''FFB Clipping'' thing, much like a FPS counter, so you could see when the occuring FFB in the sim exceeds the maximum value the game can send to the wheel.. I bet half or more of the simracers run their FF too high.

To have more fidelity you sort of want the maximum actually occuring force feedback (say a hard high speed corner) to correspond with 100% FF being sent to the wheel.

With high FF strength in game, i.e. your 200%, any sort of bump in the road, or even slight wheel turning or slip angle will make the sim send 100% FF to the wheel.. Above that, the force in the sim will change, but it can't send more than 100% to the wheel, so you basically only feel the force until this 100% is reached..

The minimum sleep setting controls how much input LFS can receive from the controller between each frame.. So more FPS means more inputs.

After playing with this setting the feedback feels different too.

Not exactly that you are talking about, but a bit of a spin off. I started a topic yesterday regarding this in fact.

Jay Odom

Quote from yoyoML :

It's absolutely useless if you only play LFS, though.

^^Guilty.

Quote from duke_toaster :

A (reasonably buggy?) attempt at MPR streaming has been tried, it's had a few problems.

It can't do commentary, there isn't an autodirector (it's choose-your-own-picture), and there's issues about skin abuse and similar.

What I was referring to wasn't a multiplayer stream, but rather a way to start a mpr file on the computer doing the source broadcast signal.

Basically what you do is the person commenting starts the mpr as it is being made by another instance of LFS. So two instances of LFS are needed. One is receiving the live data from the server and the other is reading the first one's mpr as it is being written. So there is a delay, of 15-20 second minimum. In order to make the commentary sync the commentator comments to the second instance that is playing the MPR.

The result is a much smoother broadcast picture. This is because LFS knows what the cars are going to do before they do it because the mpr was created 15-20 seconds in the past. LFS can interpolate the action and all is much smoother. TV director is compatible with a multiplayer replay. I have tried it, live and just running a random replay file.

There is a hitch though. Once you start an 'live' mpr file, if the race restarts so will the mpr, with the next race. About a few minutes in it will stop again for no reason. However, in a live race you should have no reason to restart the race.

I believe there are insim packets that can control replay files as well. I don't remember exactly, but I think there is a way to start a mpr at a certain time using insim. If that is true... instant replay technology is possible with the right programmer at the wheel. That would be the shizzzz.

As far as I know this hasn't been attempted live before (reading a live MPR file). I ran the idea across Becky Rose a month back and she said she had suggested it to someone else before so this isn't a new idea, it just hasn't been attempted yet...that i know of. I also mentioned it to MP3_astra as well.

Jay Odom


I think there are other controls too. Look through the file.

In the Misc section of the LFS settings menu there is a setting call minimum sleep. You can adjust the time in minimum time in ms that LFS looks for updates from the controls between frame.

I have mine at 5ms.

Anybody care to comment on what settings they are using or experimenting with this setting?

I found my control input is much more precise with this setting higher. But it tends to stutter a little.

I searched first, but the results were very random.

Jay Odom

I really like the look of a MacBook and the screens are nice too. The only thing that erks me about mac's is you must bow down to the Mac way. Not only do they control the software, but the hardware too. Unless you count Boot Camp....the mac way of running windows.. So many people buy Mac's to "stick it to the man" and not buy Microsoft Products. Kinda backwards. If money wasn't an issue I would get a nice MacBook Pro. But it is an issue for most of us.If I was wanting to get all the power I can get for my money I would look at an Acer. They have some around 1,000 USD that have good amount of RAM and pretty good video cards for a laptop in this price range.

BTW. Where is Dustin? He claims Mac users get laid more often PC users.

Jay

Quote from shaun463 :

My Logitech PSU was a AC Adaptor.

You mean AC IN to AC Out or AC In to DC out?

Jay

I watched some of the last iTCC races and was really happy to see you guys were using mogulus. My attention was drawn to your league because it was the first I'd seen done with mogulus for live sim racing events. I had done some experimenting with mogulus for streaming live LFS video. I was even more surprised to see you used the exact same software and method I had tried after doing some research. While you say there are better solutions, I haven't seen any that really work as good as this setup. Maybe if you could buy hulu space, but I bet that is really high dollar. I see so often the low fps and major video lag/spikes/ect of most video streaming for race leagues. It is nice to see community members making the most out of what is available for public use.

Good Job!

One more thing. Have you ever tried to tried to broadcast by playing a mpr file as it is being written?

Jay Odom

Quote from S14 DRIFT :

Tbh, I think we shouldn't be allowed to compare "sims" because it nearly always ends up in an argument, and there's never anything said that hasn't been said before - So why bother? :hide:

Because..... humm.... because..... errrr.... ummmm......

What the hell time is it there any way?

Jay

** edit: and some one always has to say another sim sucks. I don't really like rfactor.... but I like what it does for sim racing by allowing community to push forward on it's own... at the same time i does hinder it in some areas like consistency. What rfactor needs is a community driven package manager like the different Linux distro's have... another thread i suppose.... GT I am just general disappointed with GT4, but i like what that sim did for sim racing too..

I really like like to hear what others think about topics and conversating with like minded people about those subjects to express my outlook.

Jay Odom

Last edited by jbirdaspec, Fri, 23 Jan 2009 05:42.

Quote from S14 DRIFT :

But rFactor was never meant to be "finished", was it? It was like a selection of standard cars, with the relevant bug fix patches, and then all the modders came along and introduced their own thing.

Like I said. It was my attempt at a crapy argument.

Jay

Quote from shaun463 :

Where can I get a DFP PSU? Mine just died .

Just to let you know... In the event that you do find something you can use.....make sure it is DC output and not AC output. I for one had never seen an AC power adapter before I bought one on accident for my old driving force GT edition... I got it home and matched up the connector, pluged it in and it started smoking.. I looked on the box and it said "AC Power adapter".. I was pretty pissed off and my house smelled really freakin' bad to boot.

So.... Don't assume all power bricks are DC. You know what they say about people that assume.

jay

Quote from chavm481 :

^there fore, Rfactor<LFS<GT5P lol
both lfs and gt5p arnt finished...

haha. I guess rfactor isn't technically finished either. Considering it's whole focus is continuous community development. I know... it's a crapy argument.

Jay

Quote from tristancliffe :

Sure it might be fun - I stopped at GT4 and don't plan on continuing the series until it changes its tack.
-------------------------------
I haven't played Forza, but from the videos I've seen (quite a few over the years) it is much much closer to 'simulation' than GT.

I too left at GT4. It just didn't do it for me at all. Honestly the disappointment was so bad it actually hurt a bit. They lost me by not putting it online like they should have. In some ways I think it might have been worse then the previous 3. I think GT2 was the high point of GT, but that's just my opinion. It was just fun.

Forza and Forza 2 is a better 'Sim' then GT4 was. Simple because of the multiplayer game play. Again IMO. But at the same time I wish I could have the 700 bucks back I dumped into getting Forza 2, the 360, the VGA adapter and the wheel..not including that damn XBOX live subscription...all for one game. I wish I had known about LFS at this point.

@ everyone else - I don't know anything about GT5p from experience. But if history repeats itself I don't have high hopes of enjoying it due to the experience I had with GT4. And I doubt there is a going to be a awesome community like the one here with LFS. That is more then half of what makes LFS so great to me. The console community's can't touch the PC and especially LFS.

Jay

Quote from Jertje :

This is not true actually. The pedals have exactly the same casing, but internally they use totally different technology. I've used a DFP for well over a year before upgrading to the DFGT, and the difference in quite noticible. The DFGT's pedals are more accurate and less squishy, although still quite crappy.

Thanks for pointing that out. I just put them on the floor and pressed each one a few times to see how they felt. The DFGT pedals do feel a bit firmer. Not by much, be they do. Especially the brake. I guess I didn't take notice because I never actually used the DF GT pedals since I had my RS2006 already.

Sorry if I gave anybody a false inpression of these pedals.

Jay

Quote from NightShift :

@jbirdaspec, about RL tracks, I've been wondering if they don't want to add them yet because the current map system isn't accurate enough to come close to the realism level they would be satisfied with.



You may have a point but to me the cars in LFS are very well thought out. They resemble a number RL cars that many people can relate to their RL experience: the XF, XR or FXO may turn into that one car you like, that you have owned or driven, or maybe only dreamt about (FZ5 or LX)

That way with one car they cater to fans of different models, without having to worry too much about balancing. Just think of all the skins that try to turn the XR or XF into some RL car. Honda, Nissan, Peugeot, Toyota, Mazda... you name it

Of course for those who have to drive the Pontiac Solstice they've dreamed about for so long, and can't settle for anything less, LFS is certainly not a viable choice

Excellent points. Especially the point about car balancing. They pick the specs of cars in a class and don't have to worry about pissing off a car company because they needed to slow it down for competition. I also agree the cars are well thought out.

I know the cars are loosely based on their RL counter parts. They shouldn't be reinventing the wheel, so they don't. It makes sense. For people that love the drive it doesn't matter.

Jay Odom

Quote from Chrisuu01 :

I just bought a DFGT yesterday since the g25 is way out of my budget.

WHat kind of force feedback settingd so you guys reccomend??

First thing I do is turn off the profilerer by not allowing it to auto start. It's menu's are messy. It's bloated fancy soft that be quite jicky. And I can't be sure, but sometimes I think it even try's to dynamically mess with your configurations while you drive. Some people might like it. I choose to set my configurations up in windows using the Game Controller configuration menus in Control Panel. Controller company's are all to good and making awkward software...anyways:

A picture is worth a thousand words. Which by the way I could have written that much, but stopped myself.

Jay's DF GT Settings

I change the in-game % to accommodate the car I am in at that time. I know these aren't the Holy Settings of the LFS Manual. I did like the Holy LFS Manual settings when I had a DFP, but on this wheel it felt better this way. The motion with these settings are crisp and have a good feel to them.

But really. Play around with it. Find out what you like. Anybody can copy settings from a wiki and those are good settings. Don't get me wrong. But like with anything else thats a one size fits all solution. It isn't a solution for all.

Have fun.

Jay Odom

First and foremost. Make sure you have latest drivers for the wheel. I am sure you all do. But I know some of the axises are combined on some logitech wheels if you don't install the driver package from the logitech. Windows does treat some wheels as a basic joystick if you don't install the logitech drivers.

That said: once you get in to Options -> Controls -> axis/ff make sure you can see your axes on the right side. Also make sure you have wheel/joystick select at the top of the screen. Now find the axis you want to assign in the middle section. I will use Throttle as an example. Click Throttle and then click the axis at the right that moves when you press the Throttle pedal. Next do the same with the brake and then the steering. After that look to the right side of the screen again and click unlock. This unlocks your axes for calibration. Next click 'recalibrate axes'. Do a full turn right till it stops and then do a full turn left till it stops. Next click the 'c' next to each of the axes you are using and smoothly press each pedal all the way down. Note: you must click C for one axes. Press it all the way down and then do the same for the next axes. Must be done one at a time. Afterward select 'lock' to lock the calibration settings into place so they can't be undone by accident.

Follow this step by step and you show have a very cleanly calibrated wheel and pedals. Note: you should calibrate with in windows before you calibrate in LFS as the calibration settings in windows is what is telling LFS the position of your axes. You can do this under game controllers in the control panel

Hope this helps.

Jay

Quote from Ikaponthus :

Is that right? I'm sure the F1 teams who pay up to $40,000 for the steering wheel in their cars would be interested to know they are wasting so much money. You should write to them and tell them all they need is a $20 playstation gamepad. I'm sure they'd be very grateful to receive your advice.

What are you talking about?!?!?! A F1 wheel is playstaion controller. Only with more buttons....

j/k

Jay

Quote from Bryan1 :

Just a question about LFS, why does LFS not use the world tracks? Spa, Monza and the rest. This would make it even better than what it is. Just for the record I raced last season in rfactor MMG in Tyka race client but never race any of the LFS leagues although I think LFS kill all other sims.

Money i'm sure is a biggy. But then there could be an aspect of contracting or licensing a track. Think of the huge headaches of going through all of that. They might need lawyers that would watch their backs and in the process might even suck them dry with legal fees. Final approval of the track from the owners. Especially in the beginning because it would be their first attempt of recreating a RL track for the public. I would expect any owner to have a contract with a dev to have final product approved before the deal was carved in stone. God knows what else is involved. This is a lot of work for 3 people. The LFS dev team is 3 people and for a good reason called quality control. This is why LFS can produce a kind of product other 'big' racing sim devs can't. If anybody judges a racing sim based on it's real world content LFS is not for them. If they love the drive and live for a good race then LFS is for them.

I don't doubt that the LFS devs have thought about RL tracks for LFS. I'm sure they would love to see it in their sim. If they haven't done it yet, it is for good reason.

A final thought of LFS and I define it for me. I think others may see it in similar ways. This is not an attempt to degrade LFS as a game even though some might see it that way. I have the highest respect for LFS from what I have witnessed so far. Please keep your mind open to what I am attempting to convey:

LFS is in a way a subculture. From what I see there are many of us here that don't conform or don't conform to much of what popular culture is telling us. LFS is really in it's self it's own little world. XFG, FXR, LX6, South City, Fern Bay....get my drift? These are symbols of our subculture. To others these mean nothing and I think a lot of members here like that. These are some of the things we love about our subculture. If you would like to see how I defined LFS as a subculture, please read this. Read it carefully though and with an open mind. There are six things written here. These six will not apply to all, but all will apply to some to a certain extent.

This really caught my eye as well:

"If a particular subculture is characterized by a systematic opposition to the dominant culture, it may be described as a counterculture. As Ken Gelder notes, subcultures are social, with their own shared conventions, values and rituals, but they can also seem 'immersed' or self-absorbed—another feature that distinguishes them from countercultures."

Thanks for your time.

Jay Odom

Quote from csurdongulos :

actually i have a black momo currently. So pedals might still be an improvement even with buying the df gt, but not by that much I guess. (my momo`s pedals are working properly, just some spiking effect, but not too bad)

My dilemma is to buy a dfgt, be stuck with shitty pedals for a while (a year or so), which are not much better than the momo`s or buy a g25 and be stuck with only 2 buttons on the damn wheel, but at least decent pedals.

If I had of known you were talking about a whole wheel and pedal upgrade I would have recommended waiting for a few months to see how this new Fanatec product does before buying anything: 911 GT3 RS Clubsport (includes new Clubsport Pedals). This is just a bit higher priced the G25 in USD, I'm not sure what the EUR prices are for G25 though for a good comparison. Then again the Momo is a pretty good wheel. The addition of just clubsport pedals might do the trick. I have a good feeling they are going to be pretty good pedals.

Release Date is March 15th.

Jay Odom

Quote from csurdongulos :

has anybody taken the pedals of the dfgt apart yet? What are they like? Are they on par with g25 in terms of quality?

I am leaning towards the dfgt because of the more buttons on the wheel (and I might eventually by the fanatec clubsport pedals), but the g25 seems to have better pedals, so I am a bit stuck.

Any tips? (not considering the price difference)

The pedals for the DFGT are the same as the DFP. Identical. I have both side by side here in my office at home.

IMO. The DFGT as a wheel is excellent. It has fast movement and good feedback. The speed is fast enough that during oversteer you can feel the center of the cars movement. You can let go and catch oversteer like the G25 too, but I don't do this. The centering is good and you don't get that notchy feel at the center. It does only have one motor compared to the G25's 2 motors. It has a good price tag of 150 dollars MSRP USD. But most of the time you can get it for less online.

If you are planning on mixing a wheel with a set of custom pedals, this is a good wheel to start with. I wouldn't call it an upgrade from a G25 unless you are considering the buttons. But it is easier to replace because of it cost. It has way more buttons as I'm sure you know.
My idea is to pair my DFGT with a set of Clubsport Pedals as well. Right now I have a Act Labs RS2006 pedal set and a lightning SST shifter.

Overall: DFGT is good as a wheel and not so good for the pedals. It is a good starting base for a custom setup though.

Jay Odom

**edit: If you are wanting Clubsport pedals and already have a G25 I would get the Clubsports first. Then if you want a DFGT or your G25 breaks(i think you have a G25, right?), buy the DFGT as a replacement wheel to match to the Clubsport Pedals.

Quote from Mille Sabords :

Fights against a good defender when you are a bit faster or defending against a faster racer are always very interesting, they are the ones that make me play LFS.
No matter if they last 2-3 corners or the whole race, they bring a broad smile on my face.
Forget about speed / WRs, that is not where the excitement lies in LFS (there is not enough adrenaline to be found there, you can wreck / respawn and lap again until you master one combo...), what you really want is a place to race with racers about your speed who want to drive clean and fair, but win in the end.

So please do try to defend as well as attack, cleanly but with cunning and determination to win, this will brighten everybody's race.

Agreed. To be cunning in a battle is by far the high point of LFS for me. I like to drive and be faster at a combo. But memorable moments are made with other drivers in a battle.

I have a mpr where I managed to outwit a driver and do a full outside pass on SO6 in a FBM. It was in the corner on the first sector where you turn right under the bridge and then go uphill to the back straight. Afterward I was so shocked of what I had managed to do, I forgot to shift and lost the position. I was an incredible feeling though. I will see if I can make a video of it. Fraps seems to run like crap on my PC, but I think I can get it will flash media encoder and a screen capture.

jay

**Edit: I looked a the replay again. I had about 1 or 2 mpg on him going up hill, but hadn't completed the pass yet. Looking at it I should have been able to gain the position on the straight if I hadn't mess the shifting up. But it would have only been a nose of so. Don't know if it is as video worth of some of the ones I've seen. Still a hella lot of fun.

Last edited by jbirdaspec, Mon, 19 Jan 2009 07:45.

Quote from S14 DRIFT :

Mmmhm, on top of that, drafting comes into play, as said elsewhere, which obviously can't happen during hotlapping, and the wind is also a pretty large factor, as again you can't have any wind in hotlap mode.

All of the above like you said.

But I've also heard rumors of drivers, very fast drivers, that don't upload Hot Laps because it will reveal their spring rates and some other expose able setup configurations when they do. Makes a lot of sense to me if they have put a lot of work into these settings.

But still a large portion of it is the combos they are limited to.

jay