Quote from Flotch :

I put a picture taken on my polo coupé from 1989 next a ds3 : yes the ds3 is of course bigger, but it is not that huge anyway. At least, looking at the XF2 next the XF GTi gives the impression that the XF2 would be an SUV
So lfsrm, as you are certainly more expert on this topic : do you think LFS cars could maybe be too "small/narrow" compare to a classic value ? As I am sure you did some great computation to make the XF2 looks real.
Maybe comparing it to a real car like the raceabout on which the real dimensions are known would probably highlight if some tricks in the computation done by Eric have been done

I m nowhere near an expert even tho car design is something I dreamed to do as a career since a long time, but being born in this country is something that limited my possibilities greatly...

As for the XF2, I think I was too generous with the car width, 10 cms less and it would probably give a way more coherent dimensions, plus the car width around the windows area should be narrower too (and the side windows length too):




because like said previously, with the progress that car manufacturers made in passive security, cars have way more "thicker" bodies which make them larger than older cars, this is something I didn't translate as realistically as I hoped.

As a test project, it opened my eyes on some elements that I used to neglect when it comes to vehicles creation, definitively modding a car into a simulator is a good way for me to improve this hobby of mine, If I ever create another car, It will definitely be an improvement over this project.

Where is the "UV maps support" choice ?

The finish on this car is off the chart ! great modeling!

Surely another great addition to the game

Quote from Flotch :

I understand the comment from versiu : when you put the xf2 next to current LFS cars : it looks very huge

Which is weird since I used pretty reasonable dimensions .

Anyway, mistakes were prone to happen since it's my first modding project, I learned alot by doing this car and I hope I won't make the same mistakes if I ever make another LFS mod .

Quote from NENE87 :

Hi, can you try this alternate engine?

You can see here the difference between mass of XF gti and LS gti, maybe it can help to improve physics?


here the difference between your engine and my alternate engine:
your:

mine:

thanks for the sound engine, I will just use yours and credit you with the next WIP update.

Could I ask you why you think a higher idle rpm is better with this engine configuration ?

Quote from Evolution_R :

You can add a duplicate for l_rind called l_rind1 (both the mesh and the map), which will overlap l_rind when the turn lights are off. Works for all lights (l_find, l_rind etc.).

When off - will use l_rind1 and when on - will use l_rind, but both should share the same page (texture).
l_rind1 can be red, and the l_rind can be yellow (only when on).

I tried your trick but it doesn't work ingame for obscure reason, which is surprising since it shows a completely different result in the editor.

seems like LFS doesn't like white indicators, I guess I will just change the texture color to orange and be done with it.

EDIT : I had to restart the game for it to finally load the texture, but still the result is totally different than what I have in the editor :

Last edited by lfsrm, Fri 29 Apr 2022, 13:09.

Quote from Evolution_R :

You can add a duplicate for l_rind called l_rind1 (both the mesh and the map), which will overlap l_rind when the turn lights are off. Works for all lights (l_find, l_rind etc.).

When off - will use l_rind1 and when on - will use l_rind, but both should share the same page (texture).
l_rind1 can be red, and the l_rind can be yellow (only when on).

oh interesting, thanks for the tips.

Quote from NENE87 :

The front indicator left is yellow you can fix the "color" on lfs editor, maybe some tris is yellow?
#Too much power i think the engine has too much torque, i lost grip on each corner (try my KRT CR mod you probalbylostgripon each corner too ^^)
#Force feedback error probably caster angle I feel too much the torque when i push the gaz on curves :/
#I'm not in love with the car's sound can i send you a proposition?Can i take a look on the engine in LFS editor?

Here a vw polo engine 1800 spec for help
https://www.ultimatespecs.com/car-specs/Volkswagen/1244/Volkswagen-Polo-4-(9N3)-3-doors-GTI-18T.html

sorry for my bad english

Yes of course, you can do whatever you want with the engine sound, just keep in mind this is still a GTI, a civilian car that is supposed to sound somehow sporty without going overboard.

I double checked the left and right indicators mesh colors, everything seems fine ( the mesh color is white ), there is nothing I can do for now unless if I just apply an orange color to the base mesh, which is not something I want for the front/rear light style to be honest :s.

Are you using a Direct drive wheel ? I changed the caster value in the latest version, it didn't improve the ffb feels ?

I updated the mod with some of you guys suggestions, could anyone test if the FFB feels any different ?

Quote from NENE87 :

Hey great job!:
#The front indicator left is yellow

it looks yellowish when it faces the sun/light position, you can notice the correct color under shadowy area.

I have no idea why it renders like that, if there were a shader with less specular maybe I could fix this problem.

Last edited by lfsrm, Fri 29 Apr 2022, 08:14.

Quote from timdecnodder :

Front caster should be angled between -2 and -6,5, if it’s a positive number, your FFB works reversed

Oh I see, I had no clue, thanks for the explanation.

Quote from NENE87 :

Hey great job!:

#The front indicator left is yellow
#Too much power
#Force feedback error probably caster angle
#I'm not in love with the car's sound

But I love the concept!

Hi, thanks for your feedback

1 - strange, I will see what's up with that
2 - do you find it hard to drive ? Or it's just a personal opinion?
3 - how? Does the ffb feels weird ? Could you be more precise about that if you don't mind?
4 - that's one tricky subject, sound in general is very setup dependent, for me personally I wanted to stay as far as possible from "racy" or aggressive engine sound, since I can't really control how it sounds at higher rpm, unless you go full bang with it and make it sound like a race car, I mean it's hard for me to give nuances to the engine sound with the actual lfs sound engine (eg: quieter at lower rpm, screamy at higher rpm).

Probably very fun to drive just by the look of it, can't wait to try it!

I think the dirt alpha that you used on the front window needs to be toned down a little bit.

Quote from versiu :

OMG this car desing represents modern XFG generation so well but I think it's a slighty to big. Look how small driver is compared to interior and seat.
I know that cars growth over generations but not that much.

The car general dimensions are fine (compared to other small hatchbacks), it's the car width around the windows/pillars area that are a bit too large, that's why I should've gave some more thickness to the interior panels and narrowed the whole top of the car when I started this project.

it's fascinating how interiors ergonomics expose all the flaws of exterior design !

Quote from nacim :

Just tried the car, first of all, nice work !

Physics wise I feel like the car is way too powerful and grippy for what I'm thinking it should be.
As Flotch said, I think the redline should be toned down to 7000 rpm, and max power to 130/140 bhp. I played with the car with a 12-14% power restriction and it felt more fun and realistic to drive.
I agree that the car should have the option to disable the TC, but I feel like the stock setup should have it enabled, with an agressive 5% max slip allowed, just like a car like this would have out of the factory.
As for the grip, I felt the car was more appropriate with the "NORMAL" tires suited on instead of the "SUPER"

Anyways, looking forward to try out the evolution, keep up the good work mate

EDIT: Small thing visually, I feel like the car is really large, but looking at the dimensions in game, it seems to be around 1.72/1.74m so same width as a 2012 Peugeot 208. Maybe it's the mirrors ? They seems really small

EDIT2: I also feel like having a trailing arm for the rear suspension (just like the original XFG has) would fit more the econobox hatchback from this era, and still used on this type of car to this day.

It's true that it feels more planted than what some of you people expected, the thing is a car doesn't feel the same when drove near its limit, which also reveal its flaws, and since I m not really good at stressing out a car, I thought having a "too balanced" specs as a first version and as a base to start with and try to make a little bit more sensational down the road (with people inputs), without scarifying how it handle as it's supposed to be a well balanced GTI.

I think you are right, now that I checked other similar car, the rear suspension type doesn't make sense.

I really want to keep the power output as it is, but before any final decision I need to try the thing with the changes first.

And don't get me started about the body proportions , there is so many mistakes I made, especially with the interior, one of them is what you mentioned already, that "too large" impression, it's because the inside body panels aren't "stuffed" enough, side parts of the interior lack thickness, plus there is some elements that need to be enlarged... but that's something I want to correct for my next projects.

and the front side windows are too large too .

Anyway, thanks for the inputs, I will try to mess up with the physics a little bit more.

Quote from Evolution_R :

I've attached whl file (inside the zip) of the two color rim I meant - just put it in LFS_EDITOR\data\whl\ and load it from LOAD WHL.
I meant two color rims, not only two color border / whole rim.

But this is my own preference. If you don't like this style, it's ok.

I think I will just offer the three customization options, rims ring and back and the front spoke.

There is also an issue with LOD3 which doesn't fit the body shape very well.

I will fix all of those when I get back from work

Quote from ivancsx :

setup wise, there's Traction control available, but why it turned off by default?

might consider to turn it on as default instead? anyway great car handling ! feels good to hotlapping at Rockingham definitely 5 stars rating for this !

I thought it could be better to offer the option since this car is from an era where ESP started to be pretty much standard, why it's turned off by default ? well that was my personal preference since it's way more rewarding to drive with the thing off.

Thank you for the feedbacks.

Quote from Evolution_R :

Looking great in-game overall (the design is subjective).
I would like to have a two color rims.

EDIT: the handling seems fine to me (a keyboard user )

Oh yes I totally forgot about it, thanks for the report, I just updated the package with this change.

I submitted a WIP for review, I need some feedbacks about the handling since I'm not really confident about the physics side of the mod.

Quote from CV95 :

I love the details. Car looks amazing, but I don't think the logo fits the whole spirit/concept of the car itself.

Well the logo wasn't made specifically for the car, it's my personal logo (for artworks and such).

I will also change the name of the car, XF2 (XF3 or XR4 etc) are names that could be used by the devs in the future.

I made some good progress this weekend, there isn't much left, mostly setting up and importing mirrors mesh, filling some holes and modeling the rims and finishing some of the texturing work (skin and other things) :

Is it possible to have multiple mappings support for lights emission meshes ? like the possibility to have duplicate l_head or l_side etc ?

I was trying to test interior buttons emission for my mod, it's just impossible to have proper result with shared mapping between the headlights and buttons alpha.

Quote from Gunn :

The upcoming facelift for LFS is sure to appeal to a greater audience.

For many of us I know that good car and world physics trumps high-poly, fancy graphics every day of the week. It's about the actual racing after all, and Live For Speed has never been found wanting in this aspect. Even Live For Speed's tyre model seems today more sophisticated than its modern rivals, and (for me at least) the force feedback - while not perfect in every way - is the most intuitive to be found when it comes down to knowing the limits of your car. The netcode is solid and the rapidity with which one can fire up the game and be racing online remains unrivaled.

Live For Speed is an excellent racing sim, and although I'm sure I can't completely shed my bias, I'm certain that my mind isn't playing tricks on me, and won't be easily changed, either.

Having said all that; I've always believed that any game endures not by virtue of its features, but by the passion and efforts of its community. Pity that more developers don't (won't) grasp this important concept. While LFS will garner more appeal from graphics and physics improvements (and undoubtedly by the addition of more content), at the end of the day it's the players that hold the future of the sim in the balance. A loyal and dedicated community of racers is the answer to longevity.

Simracing is all about immersion, graphics and physics are both important, a very good sim should aim to nail both aspects.

I agree that lfs was and still (in some aspects) a very good sim, but let's try to not deny other people work, I believe that there's many passionate devs behind those sims (AC/C, iracing, rfactor...) that are striving to bring us quality products, they kept the sims community alive and we even grew in number in these past years!

I also agree that passion plays a no negligible role in a product quality and longevity, but without visibility you might as well give up earning the fruit of you labor, I understood that the hard way, I hate the concept of social media with passion, I prefer the old fashioned discussions platforms, but because I m a graphic designer and my job by nature require heavy exposition to all kind of medias, I m forced to use them to not give up my passion and livelihood.

This is how life goes, it's all about compromises.

Quote from NENE87 :

No steam please, i love the "artisanal" way of lfs and his own forum etc... All fortnite's kids will come and test lfs => CRASHERS NOOO!

Quote from Avraham Vandezwin :

Did I mention corrupt governments somewhere?

If we don't admire monopolistic corporations, we are reactionary, backward plotters who want to take the world back to the Stone Age? It's what you think?

Yes I have a lot of things against Steam. But that's not the point and I didn't talk about it here first.

If developers manage to take advantage of Steam without imposing its inconveniences on their players, i have nothing against that. On the other hand, having to go through Steam to play LFS, no thanks. I prefer to reinstall Windows 95 and Codemaster Toca2.

You people need to think a little bit about the game and the community as a whole and not only what your preferences dictate, the devs clearly stated that the game needs more visibility to attract players, but instead you want to bury the game even further just because it "feels good" to be unique.

Do you think that I like bloated program that runs in the background each time I want to play a game ? hell no, but if it what it takes to attract more players, I will gladly embrace the new platform.

and yes, we were all kids/crashers/beginners when we started to play the game, it's up to us the community to guide the newcomers to become better as a players, there is nothing wrong with that.

Quote from Avraham Vandezwin :

The LFS demo on Steam is advertising for LFS. For it to work, the game must be more attractive with graphic update (we agree).

But the paid version of LFS has nothing to gain to be on Steam. Neither today nor tomorrow or ever.

Steam induces a consuming adictic and harmful that does a lot of harm, including to the online events (to return to the subject).
With Steam you decide to play. The game is unimportant. You have the choice. You can switch from one to another indefinitely (as long as Steam works ...).
Deciding to open LFS to play it, it's different. You are there only for LFS. You ned to find a race that motivates you to join a server. This is another story. The racers don't all want to play bowling with buses ...

If you have something against steam, please don't drag lfs into this vendetta of yours, steam is probably the most populated gaming platform on PC that offers the necessary visibility for a nich indy game like LFS.

If we go by your logic, they should start selling only physical copies and close their social media accounts since internet induce heavy addiction for the weak and distracted users, plus being heavily regulated by corrupt governments.

Iracing devs are doing it just fine, by using steam as a proxy to direct users to their licensing platform, and even if they sell licences directly on steam that's still bonus incomes for the devs.

Quote from Biadonsky :

This looks very great!

About the engine, what are you thinking about?

A 1.6 NA high revving with 130hp or a 1.4T/1.6T with 150hp in my opinion would be ideal for this.

Weight between 1030 kg (if NA)and 1090 (if Turbo).

Great job!

In my test version it's a 170hp 1.8L 4 cylinder, 1070kg.

I m starting to think you're a troll.