Quote from iFastLT :

And they're adding MX-5

The MX-5 is the racing version. Slick tires, same as the Mustang (well, slicks with little 2 inch long grooves in the middle).

Quote from anttt69 :

Site down, again. 'emergency maintenance' this time.

That's getting a wee tiresome.

Quote from atledreier :

So when you get your real car sideways.... How easy is that to correct? I've saved my car a few times on track through dumb luck and reflex. That is an easy to drive awd rallycar that really is point and shoot. I can't imagine holding a slide in a rwd car to be easy at all, especially in a race setting. One thing hanging the ass out in a turn, but losing it, and then hauling it back in must be really, really hard. I think iRacing got the better feel there, the cars bite back, where the LFS cars feels way too easy and forgiving.

I've been sideways (very sideways) in a RWD car (RX-8) in sopping wet conditions. It was easy as pie, even with worn tires. And I know from racing karts in the wet and the dry that wet conditions increase the difficulty quite a bit.

In cars with really short wheelbases, like the Solstice, and on dry pavement, it's even easier - flick, flick, done.

Just driving along the pit lane, LFS feels very game-y. I wasn't at all impressed with LFS until I really started hammering it. Everything was very natural feeling at speed.

iRacing blew me away the first time I pulled out of pit lane, but as soon as I started really pushing it started to crumble.

The reasons why I still play iRacing are the tracks and the racing service, which are both perfect as far as I'm concerned.

Like someone else said, what sims people prefer probably has everything to do with how they drive. A visual driver is probably more likely to say that iRacing is the pinnacle. Someone that drives with their ass is probably more likely to say that LFS is the ultimate. Someone that drives with their hands is probably most likely to say NKP is nirvana.

The future of space is privatized. Even NASA thinks so.

NASA will probably be piggybacking on Virgin spacecraft post-2020.

Quote from atledreier :

MadCat: What monitor setup are you using? With a proper field of view small slides are MUCH easier to detect. Also, in a car like the Mazda things happen VERY quicky, and driving without seat-of-the-pants on an awkward screen setup is bound to fail. I'm amazed at the people who CAN hold the car on the road, seeing their setups. That is some serious conditioning right there.

I use a 16:10 monitor (22 inch) with I think an 85 field of view. Wide, I know, but I need to see passing cars.

Quote from Postman Pat :

I come here periodically hoping for some good news. But that makes no sense; there can be no good news as the tracks will still be flat and dead, unrealistic and like an arcade game no matter how good the physics might turn out to be. FWIW, though, iRacing's Dave K says he's destroyed a lot of tyres (sorry tires) on a test rig investigating the over-the-limit behaviour, and his new tyre model fits the data. Maybe more hype, but we wait expectantly for that update.

That update will make or break the game for me. I am currently hanging in limbo about whether I like it or not. I love the competition, the leagues, the progression, the racing, but the physics are lacking something that makes me really want to get on and drive it like I do LFS. I am confident the update will improve the situation, however, since my main gripes with the physics are slides and slide recovery, and that seems to be the area of focus for the update.

Unfortunately, that update is probably at least 3 months away. There is no way they'd deploy something like that mid-season.

I will be able to directly compare the sim to real life later this month, that may help.

Quote from Glenn67 :

As I said earlier one thing that has always stood out to me as a driver of both Sims is that in iRacing I always feel there is a better time available to me by getting everything more correct. In LFS I often felt like I was hitting a wall, I knew psychologically that I could go quicker but often felt I couldn't - it's hard to put into words... and is probaly as much the track detail as the physics.

This is how it is in real life. Speed in real life, past a certain point (different for each driver), is utterly unfathomable. You may spend a month at that wall, you may spend the rest of your life.

I suspect the disparity is due to the sheer technical nature of iRacing, versus the more organic nature of LFS.

I've got the Mazda with my participation credits. So far I don't really like it. To drive this thing properly is completely different than the drivers in real life, if you watch onboard footage. The real car can be driven up on the wheel with lots of input. In the sim car if you try to correct the slide it just snaps. I've never seen a Star Mazda or Pro Formula Mazda car do that.

I mean, if you can correct the car in T1 at Sebring like this guy... I'll eat my socks. Final turn, too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0O1Ex0axGo

Last edited by MadCat360, Wed, 4 Aug 2010 03:35.

Quote from atledreier :

Perhaps LFS scale the forces differently? Some sort of dynamic compression could be applied. besides, LFS has much less subtlety anyway, so you won't notice as easily.

I fixed the attachment, btw.

And I think most people usually end up with FF settings of 8-15 in iRacing. I have mine at 12, adn get a little clipping with a G25, but it brings out the bumps better, so it's a compromise.

So I should use as low of an in-sim setting as possible? Or a combination of somewhat low driver settings and medium sim settings?

Quote from z-ro 8 :

Excessive positive caster will do relatively the same.
Something you can't accurately feel in LFS.....

Caster wouldn't cause the wheel to snap back as quick as this.

Actually, it seems to vary from session to session. Sometimes it is a strong force, sometimes weak, sometimes not there at all (like just tonight practicing the Star Mazda).

Quote from The Very End :

Could someone please take some time to write a list of good / bad things about the SIMs, and then compare it? I have heared a lot about Iracing but have only briefly tested it. I would be much thankfull if someone tok the time writing the goods and bads about the two above in one post.

Thanks in advantage.

I've been running the Skip Barber car in iRacing, as well as a few other cars, and on the 21st I'm going to Laguna Seca to do a 3-day course in the real one. I'm going to do a writeup on my blog, maybe with comparisons. I'll PM you and let you know when it's up. It's the least I can do in return for the gift of LFS!

Quote from atledreier :

Sounds very much like you are clipping your FF output. What is your FF settings ingame and in the drivers?

But Live for Speed gives me all the info I need, while also having stronger forces. I have a Fanatec 911 Turbo S and the drivers are set to 100% (max), and ingame varies. In LFS I have it set to 50, default, and in iRacing I have it at anywhere between 9 for the Radical, and 17 for the Solstice. Most are between 10-12. In LFS I can feel the exact slip angle of the tires and the relative position of the rear end. In iRacing I can seemingly only feel the rear end. It's like all the subtlety of the rubber is gone.

Nevertheless, I will trying tweaking it some. Thanks.

By the way, the diagram didn't show up for me.

Last edited by MadCat360, Tue, 3 Aug 2010 08:44.

The only thing I don't like, currently, in iRacing is the feel. The tires themselves seem more or less fine (a couple of the car seem like they regain grip suddenly), but the force feedback is wanting. They actually use copious amounts of dead center spring! If you just sit in the pits you can turn the wheel 360 degrees and it'll just snap back quicker than if you were slinging it around in a drift.

And when the cars start to slide you lose pretty much all feeling. The bumps are nice though. It's like the FFB has 2 modes: dead cornering mode, and active straight line feel all the bumps mode.

Meanwhile, in LFS, I can feel exactly what the grip's like at all times and can properly anticipate slides.

The racing in iRacing is damn good though.

Quote from amv :

these tips are really helping me out a lot!!! it might be too obvious for you to say, but It's a complete insight for me, you know? thanks!!!

maybe someone can help me with this question, last night I felt the car was understeering when heading to the apex, but as soon as I release the brake, the front wheels seem to get a lot more of grip and suddenly steers fine, it doesn't seems to be related to speed, but something else, maybe braking bias? I'm not good at setup... can someone help with this? I can stop braking when turning knowing how the car handles when I do that, but I also want to know why the car behaves like that.

thanks!!!

You're welcome.

The braking this is just too much brake pressure while trying to turn. You're right, it is related to brake bias - bias to the front means the fronts will lock first. If that happens the car will just go straight on. If the bias is too far rearward the car will spin if the brakes lock (like pulling the handbrake). Try setting 45% front bias and see what happens when you brake really hard!

Okay, so in addition to what the others have said, a couple things.

I think the smoothness thing is a result of excitement. It looks like you're really excited. In all probability this is probably because you haven't sorted out those reference points and you feel rushed as a result. On the 2nd lap when you entered the final corner and went into the grass, you looked genuinely surprised that there was a corner there. Take a few easy laps and just find likely markers for things like when to turn in for the corner, when to brake, and when to exit. Choose them arbitrarily and conservatively. Look ahead, too. Don't look at the track directly in front of you. Look at your next reference point. As soon as you hit the brakes you should be looking through the upcoming corner. Your hands do take you where you look - that's why you see so many crashed cars with poles right where the badge should be.

Also don't be afraid to run right up to the edge of the road on the exit of a corner. You "pinch" the exits off a lot, rather than just using minimal steering input and letting the car go out there on it's own.

And i might shift slightly sooner. Minor point, really, but you shift at 8000 RPM. I would shift at 7600.

Quote from tristancliffe :

Owning a Subaru means you must like understeer. It doesn't mean you are able to determine if a racing simulation is any good when your skills are so low.

I doubt the understeer is what drew him to the car. He probably just wanted an AWD system to drive for him.

Y'all are crazy. This car is a sweetheart! It's very docile and is nimble as a flea.

Quote from gabriel.i :

one more question. in T1 it's recomended to use the trail brake right, cause trail brake distribuates the mass smoother to the front. I;ve tryed what u said and for one lap i've cutteed from my T1 time now just with practice i can became constant.

Thanks for tips mate

Yes, when you brake, the deceleration forces the nose to dive, which pushes the front tires into the ground and gives you more grip in the front, which is what you want when you're changing direction.

In turn 1, you're "crabbing" the entry. You're slowly veering towards the apex before the turn-in point. Keep it to the far left and then turn in when you want to, don't use the whole braking zone to turn in.

In a few corners you're using too much steering angle. This is a pretty common reaction when new drivers encounter undesteer - add more wheel and it should go away right? Not really. The tires have a specific angle relative to the direction of travel that they work best at. Going beyond this angle will reduce the grip, and thus, the turning ability of the front tires. Long story short, try to move the steering wheel as little as possible as you turn. The more you turn the wheel the more the front tires act as a brake, and in extreme understeer situations if you turn the wheel too far, like you're doing, you'll just make it understeer more and scrub off more speed. If you find yourself understeering uncontrollably, don't turn the wheel more, just lift the gas and/or rub the brake very gently.

The other thing is your brake release. Most of the time you release the brake too early and too sharply. A couple of times you released the brake too late and also too sharply.

The basic idea behind your break release is to be digressive (meaning, hard initially during the slowing down phase, then gradually lighter and lighter as you turn more and more).

You've seen a circular G graph before, right, like on Formula 1 telemetry? Especially with a slow speed road car like we've got here, you want those G forces movements to be as smooth as possible. If during the braking zone we have the G forces "pip" pointing to the very top of the graph at the 12 o clock position, then, as we turn in to the corner, we want that pip to move smoothly about the edge of the graph until it reaches the 9 or 5 position for either full right or left turning. Like this: (the trailing section towards the bottom is the acceleration phase out of the corner)




Sometimes Skip Barber here in the US will put their drivers through a practical exercise in a sedan with a bowl on the hood with a tennis ball in it. The idea is to go as fast as you can around a track without making the ball fall out of the bowl. You can go at full race speed and it won't fall out if you're smooth. That's the idea behind smooth brake release.

If you release the brake unsmoothly and too early, like you do most of the time, the G forces won't have that smooth transition, the front will come up, and you'll understeer from lack of front end bite.

If you release the brake unsmoothly and too late, the fronts will lock and you won't be able to turn.

If you fix those 3 things you'll be in the 1:34s no problem.

When are you going exactly? You're gonna have a ball, even if it's only a Honda 4-stroke.

I'm in the process of assembling my fire gear and I found a Sparco X-light for a really good price so I got that. Three layers, really light, nice and breathable. Smells like mint.

Going with Sparco Tornado gloves and the Sparco "Race' shoe and then Alpinestars for the nomex undersuit. The Alpinestars nomex is great because it's not itchy like a lot of the other brands. If you want non-itchy stuff from the likes of Sparco you (in the US, anyway) have to pay a lot more than the Alpinestars. Hopefully it holds together.

I always thought 12 cars on the grid was kind of pathetic for something like a Solstice.

It's ironic that the cars with the greatest participation have the smallest grid sizes.

I'd like to see them raise the limits for a bit. Not 40 car fields, that's too much (you can't even see 40 cars anyway, from what I hear). But 20-25 car grids for the Solstice would be good. Same for the Skip Barber. Just to see what happens. They won't do it though.

Most of my races are all alone, save for the first few laps.

I found these charts very uplifting. Credit to Darren Marsh.






I recently did some Solstice racing... definitely noticed increased registration over early this year. Hopefully those drivers will graduate up. If the growth rate of active racers continues, we'll have 13,000 by this time next year.

Last edited by MadCat360, Sun, 20 Jun 2010 08:01.

Quote from Mattesa :

The MX5 will get me to sign up for no other reason than because I drive a Mk2.

Now people complain that the Solstice is slow, boring, etc. how will the Miata be any better?

The Solstice has terrible gearing. 3rd, 4th and 5th are way too long while 1st and 2nd are too short. You don't even get into 5th gear at Road America... the thing is basically a 4-speed. With no horsepower.

Handles pretty nice though.

The MX-5 should be geared better. And it will be faster (probably 5+ seconds faster at Laguna). And it's over 400 pounds lighter.

Last edited by MadCat360, Sat, 19 Jun 2010 08:33.

Quote from henrico-20- :

i did a sugestion to the iracing devs,

i still have the starters package but when i want to buy a new car i also need to buy all the tracks to join the competition. that costs a lot of money.


i think it is a good idea to make a package with a car and the tracks for it's championship. and then somethink like 75% of the normal price. Now i get offers like 3 month membership for only 18$ but it would be nice if they did a offer like my idea.

The thing they need to do is to not use so many bloody tracks in the D class series. I'll repost what I said on the forums:


Personally I think all the D class roadies should double-up on the purchased tracks to control costs. For instance, buying Watkins then running the boot configuration and the cup configuration later on in the series. It allows people to run the series for half price essentially. Somewhat like the Spec Racer only less extreme.

1. Mid Ohio full no chicane
2. Sebring Club
3. VIR North
4. Watkins Glen Classic Boot
5. Lime Rock no chicane
6. Barber Short A
7. Laguna Seca
8. Sebring Modified
9. VIR South
10. Mid Ohio short
11. Barber Full
12. Watkins Glen Cup

That cuts the entry cost down from 120 or so to about 70. AND we get to run the little short configurations that seem unused. That initial bump up to a full season in D is the most expensive single moment in most drivers careers.


Also, Mid Ohio. Go watch. Nowz.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsnp1ClexQg

Damn.

What on earth are they still working on?

Quote from SidiousX :

So when will we be able to drive the FR500s?

Sometime in the week of the 13th I bet. Grand Am has an event at Mid Ohio on the 19th (that includes the Mustang Challenge). It'll be perfectly timed for that. They'll definitely try to get it out before then.