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NightShift
S2 licensed
@Tristan, there's basically nothing they can add or improve so much to get me into paying what they're currently asking (w/o discounts), unless it's free beer Plus, for the classes I race in the tyre model is already more than satisfactory to me.

Quote from Danke :It sounds like iracers can expect some good releases this year.

Touch wood!
NightShift
S2 licensed
For those waiting for re-subscribe promo codes, there may be good news: I got one, it's a 50% off voucher for the "Season Pass", and expires at the end of the month.

Don't forget to check your mail!

PS: the mail also says

Quote :Coming Soon to iRacing.com

iRacing.com Driving School

Modeled after the Skip Barber 3-Day school, soon this will be available to all iRacing members, for FREE.

Tires/Aero

Our most impressive tire model to date, giving racers more control and better feel for the road is coming soon along with improved aero models.

Quote :Many New Features on the Way in 2010

* Fixed Setup Racing
* Night Racing
* Updated Transmission Model
* Updated Physical and Graphical Damage model
* Many more tracks and cars in the works including a street stock car and several tracks from around the globe

Sounds interesting...
Last edited by NightShift, .
NightShift
S2 licensed
I know there are people running dual and triple monitor setups (e.g. Jaap) so it is possible, but I have no clue as to what technology they are using to do that.
NightShift
S2 licensed
Wow that's a steal!
NightShift
S2 licensed
Quote from Electrik Kar :Here's how they did it (I'd definitely recommend watching the movie before seeing this though)

Bugger, you tricked me, it was your remark about the 3d class!
NightShift
S2 licensed
Quote from NotAnIllusion :I disagree

Don't tell me BTW I was talking about the minimap, which offers no visual cue to tell whether a car's in the pitlane or the track. If the pit crew can't tell that IRL then they're blind

Quote from NotAnIllusion : What's the point in slowing down to a crawl if you can see that the flag was caused by a car that's in a sandtrap,

If you can see what's happening then you don't need a minimap. You're only interested in figuring things out in advance when you can't see and then from the minimap you won't be able to tell the cars are outside or in the very middle of the track.

Quote from NotAnIllusion :to avoid a 3 car pileup in the middle of the road.

Not much you can do about that either, except fetch some daisies on yyour way out, and that's not something that can be reliably done at full speed on many tracks (South City makes for a great example here)

Quote from NotAnIllusion :I can't find the post where cargame.nl compared nKp's damage model with LFS', only the one where he criticised it without comparison (which is a valid observation, imo).

To say it's a valid observation is an overstatement per se, but anyway it's pretty much obvious he's comparing the two. If you still have doubts that's where he said:

Quote from cargame.nl :They ask 20 Euro's for a full version, of course I compare to LFS.

NightShift
S2 licensed
Quote from NotAnIllusion :Well, exiting pits, getting decent space in quali, spotting crashes for example. When I see a yellow flag, I glance at the map and see how many cars were involved and possibly who they are.

You never know who's in the pitlane and who's not anyway, and running into a yellow flag the most effective strategy is to keep eyes on the track and slow down.

I can't honestly say I have more problems or accidents in sims without a minimap. Most likely the opposite; and it's different to have someone tell you what's happening and having to figure out something from a map, that's why these days most people rely GPS receivers instead

Quote from NotAnIllusion : Deltas shouldn't be displayed on screen either any more than a minimap. Both can be provided by the team, and neither is on a HUD IRL.

In fact this information is provided through the pitboard in nKP.

Quote from NotAnIllusion :but I haven't read anywhere that it isn't supposed to be _the_ working damage model which would only require tweaking. If there's a statement saying otherwise, then I'm fine with nKp's damage model, too.

I find a bit surprising that you're clinging on to those old statements, especially when Scawen's been refraining as much as possible from making any more new ones.

When detachable parts were announced (2007 IIRC), Scawen expected them to be introduced relatively soon and that clearly hasn't happened. For all we know the necessary changes in the game plan may have relegated an improved damage model to the bottom of the list.

In reality, we are stuck with what has been released.

Quote from NotAnIllusion :I guess we see the meaning of these labels differently. Alpha, beta and release read to me as more than a build number.

That was not the point: it's under everybody's eyes that in spite of version numbers and tags, LFS is overall far more polished than nKP. The damage model for the time being is not subpar in nKP, while it is in LFS: it's plain unfair and completely pointless to compare LFS and nKP and criticize the latter for it (which is what cargame did and what I replied to)

Plus the current damage model in LFS has promoted bad driving habits for years on end, and this won't disappear overnight with just a tag change on the LFS executable.
NightShift
S2 licensed
<plonk>
NightShift
S2 licensed
Quote from NotAnIllusion :I think it's comparable, even if the amount and form of delivery is different.

What's the use of knowing the exact position of the car on the track, squinting eyes at a minimap when we should be busy driving?

Deltas are enough for me, both in nKP and iRacing, and I try to ignore them as much as possible (in iR) as it's way too easy to end up paying more attention to the numbers rather than the race.

Quote from NotAnIllusion :You lost me.

That "LFS is incomplete" is one of those moot points/community mantras that have been used to justify mostly anything, as such it has been satirized in the LFSforum bingo game. (Much like the classic line "write your own sim then" which could have been easily spent in this discussion. But I prefer constructive discussion for the most part whenever feasible.)

Arguably, every sim is only partially complete in most of its parts. For the issue at stake, rFactor has more comprehensive damage modeling than nKp or iRacing, and all of them are better than LFS.

So it's OK to discuss how nKP could learn from rFactor, whereas complaining about nKP damage model while lauding LFS is the pot calling the kettle black.

Quote from NotAnIllusion :I never expected the current damage model to deliver a deep and realistic representation in the first place. I did expect this from nKp, especially as v1.0 and above I consider "release" quality.

It follows that if nKP was called 0.5 ALPHA you wouldn't argue about its (relatively superior) damage model, but if LFS was called 1.1 you wouldn't defend what you called a "placeholder" system.

As I see it, they can call whatever they want, the current products are what they are, and I fail to see the significance of a label that's only meant for revision tracking

Quote from cargame.nl :Minimap and able to spectate are absolutely necessary to admin a race.

Can you please explain to me why the minimap is _absolutely_ _necessary_ for you to admin a race?
NightShift
S2 licensed
Quote from Electrik Kar :Also, this one,

Interesting, so they place the camera outside and then delete the bits that get in the way?
NightShift
S2 licensed
Quote from NotAnIllusion :Though, in many serie there's crew that can communicate at least some of info provided via HUDs to the driver.

The minimap is not one of those. For the rest, nKP has the pitboard, AIM on the single seaters and that little status bar on the 500 (I would have preferred something AIM-like but it's inobtrusive enough)

Quote from NotAnIllusion :Scavierge has made it clear that the damage model is known to be incomplete.

Hey that's not fair. I could have used the LFSforum bingo arguments too

Quote from NotAnIllusion :Can the same be said about nKp's damage model (legit question, no sarcasm)?

No idea do you have specific issues with the current damage model?
NightShift
S2 licensed
Quote from cargame.nl :How can you buy this junk?

Paypal or CC.



Because of: how it drives, the FFB; tracks are on average more interesting than LFS, not as flat, no LFS's chicanes everywhere syndrome, free track editor. Limited sets. Open diff and FWD cars are drivable.

There are no minimaps because guess what? there are no HUDs IRL. iRacing doesn't a minimap either. LFS can do that too using Shift-F.

The graphics IMO are not bad at all. Yes, they could be better, but the same can be said about LFS (and I did it just a couple days ago). Models are better than LFS's more often than not.

Damage system sucks you say? in LFS you can stamp a car into a wall at 150 kph and then drive away with nary a scratch. That's arcade-ish.

Quote from cargame.nl :Installing costed far more time than testing.

Installing from scratch only takes a few minutes here, and I'm certainly not running current gen hardware.

It's understood the thing has more than its fair share of rough edges, but it seems you were too busy whining to notice the important things.
NightShift
S2 licensed
Quote from Electrik Kar :'Children of Men'. While not perfect,

You're too generous
NightShift
S2 licensed
Quote from menantoll : I was just trying to say that I believe it is not as bad as you may think.

Hell not even I think it's as bad as I may think :icon23:

Quote from Becky Rose :and probably about as accurate as an extremely drunk elephant trying to urinate on a the head of a pin. Although quite why an elephant would do that i'll leave for someone else to answer.

Does an extremely drunk something relly need a reason to do that? Not in my book and if it's as massive as an elephant you shouldn't question its motives either
NightShift
S2 licensed
I see where you're coming from, but TBH I wouldn't think it's safe to assume the non-posting part of the community is completely the opposite of LFSforum.

Anyway I'm just trying to sniff the wind, if there is some truth to what I've said it might be interesting to see how it turns out. In the meanwhile let's go back to waiting for the test patch forum to be opened once again.
NightShift
S2 licensed
Quote from PoVo :LFS S2 Z30 Beta leaked (includes Scirocco, no tyre physics)

The real connoisseur would have said Z12
NightShift
S2 licensed
The graphics, regardless of some rough edges, are pretty much decent. Yes they could be made better, but ATM LFS is lagging behind on those things that matters the most to simracers: tracks (quality of), force feedback and physics (tyre and suspension modeling, collisions etc)

There seems to be some kind of divergence between the evolution of this community and the direction of development.

The dev team is apparently more concerned about and working on the simracing part of LFS. The community however has been turning more and more into a bunch of gamers, while the simracers have been progressively putting LFS on hold to focus on other sims.

This post looks quite in line with this trend to me. I do wonder what will happen when the new patch comes out if it turns out to be what I expect it to be.
NightShift
S2 licensed
Quote from GFresh :Just to follow this renewal promotions thing up, in case anyone else was curious... Boo

I wouldn't have expected anything different but thanks for keeping us posted.

Quote from Joris :I guess the main reason is that cars can spawn in the pitlane when someone enters the sim or is "towed" to the pits.

Unless there's some subtle aspect that I'm overlooking, it shouldn't be too hard to avoid two cars from spawning/being towed in/to the same place. It's more difficult to prevent a car from pitting in the spot where another one's going to spawn (which is a problem in LFS, it doesn't even check if there's a car already parked).

But it is a rather minor problem, especially when there are many pit stalls and little cars in the field - and it is a bit disconcerting to see cars pass through you in the pit lane
NightShift
S2 licensed
The search engine is your friend: http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=62260
NightShift
S2 licensed
Quote from UncleBenny :It only works coming out of the pit since everyone's cars are ghosts in the pit stalls.

I wonder why they don't just handle the cars normally when in the pits. If drivers will try their best to avoid accidents on the track, why not in the pit lane/stalls?
NightShift
S2 licensed
Quote from TV[cz] :Race Control

- Added a rule to penalize people who stay within another car while in a non-collidable state to get artificially improved drafting.

Non collidable state?! This sounds so much like a border line situation. Why so worried about this when lapped cars are allowed to interfere with the race of cars on the leading lap?
NightShift
S2 licensed
I was on for a bit yesterday, just wanted to point out that forced cockpit view has some minor side effects. For some reason in LFS the eye position can't be moved backwards more than a lot, so the choice is between settling on a wider angle, or relinquishing some of your peripheral vision (on some cars this may also affect the ability to see the wing mirrors). When FCV is off I just get around this problem by switching to Custom view, click on eye position and finally setting Y to a negative value.

I got used to this driving position from iRacing and I find it to be a good compromise to avoid too much distortion and still retain decent peripheral vision.

BTW I know this is a limitation with LFS (or it might even be an unrealistic option in iR) not a server problem, and it's pretty clear why you would choose to turn it on, so do not take this as a request or a complaint, just a FYI.
NightShift
S2 licensed
From what I remember from older discussions, there's some sort of consensus about load sensitivity being botched in LFS and the reason why differentials don't behave quite the way you would expect them to do, i.e. locked diffs + ultrastiff suspensions work wonders, because the outer tyres can be overloaded like there's no tomorrow, and even with the inner suspended in the air, it can still exert more force than the two tyres both making contact with the ground and more realistic loads on them.
NightShift
S2 licensed
Even if they had 1 mm scans of the whole track, you probably won't be able to play that. So in the end what matters the most is the conversion process that makes the map usable in the sim.

And anyway, I do wonder how much accuracy we can really feel through our run-of-the-mill, gaming-class steering wheels.
NightShift
S2 licensed
I happened to be without a credit card exactly when I was subscribing to iRacing (the old card was expired and I didn't request a new one :doh

So I put some money on my paypal account with a bank transfer. An added bonus of using paypal is the greedy boys cannot renew automagically your sub in case you forget to explicitly disable that <cough> feature.
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG