Quote from Intrepid :

Do you know anything at all about Hamilton, or do you just crib other people's opinions from a position of rank ignorance?

Stop being a hypocrite.

I sighted Senna because a lot of what was written about him at the time didn't reflect his true character. And had we had the internet now it would have been even worse. Plenty of people, at the time, had a massive dislike for Senna and HIS character. Time has eroded that though.

I pointed out an example where Hamilton revealed his true character a few posts above.

You described Senna as a "ferocious person", you didn't say that it was an inaccurate perception from the media - that's what you thought of him. I think you're arguing with yourself now.

Let me know how that goes.

Quote from Intrepid :

Senna a 'pleasant' person? Take your rose tinted glasses off. Senna was a ferocious person. He drove Prost off the circuit deliberately ffs, and he wasn't largely liked by the public outside of Brazil because they thought he was a nobhead.

Had the internet and media network we have now existed in the 80s and 90s they would have destroyed Senna.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXjyRet40tQ

1:00 in.

Do you know anything at all about Senna, or do you just crib other people's opinions from a position of rank ignorance? Have you read Sid Watkins' opinion of him for example - someone who actually knew him, which is what we're talking about rather than Joe Public's perception.

I assume you also think Schumacher was a humourless robot when he was hoovering up titles year after year?

Quote from DieKolkrabe :

Also, consider the fact that all through his career, McLaren have supported him and he's been in consistently good equipment. Does he know what it is like to be in a bad car?

He did have a dog of a car in early 2009, but even that ended up winning. What Hamilton hasn't had is decent grounding in F1 - straight into a top team, even if the car has not always been a winner.

I think Ron Dennis is to blame for this. Hamilton was given all the right moves going up the ladder and then landed a championship challenging car in his first year. Alarm bells started ringing for me when, in his first year, he referred to the "monkeys at the back" when talking about backmarkers. I wonder if he would have been better off being placed into a lower order team (Spyker, or whoever were around back then) to learn his trade and appreciate that the drivers in the worst team work a good deal harder than the front runners just to keep their cars on the track.

Sure, he would not have won 2008 WDC had that happened, but he could have reaped the benefits (and the titles) for years to come and perhaps become a more rounded and pleasant individual (see Button, or Alonso, or Hakkinen, or Senna etc)

... but they did in 1997. Took all of them off him.

Quote from sinbad :

I think if you thought any midfield runner was intentionally trying to run someone off the road, it wouldn't be hard to penalise them. You'd give benefit of the doubt, but surely these are the things that the rules are there to stop happening, not encourage. Protect the one getting run off the road, not the one doing the running off.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v ... RhOEY&feature=related
The only difference is that where Rubens keeps going because of the pit exit, Button lifts because his only other option was recently mown. MSC was punished.

Not saying I agree with the situation, but that's what it is.

.. but you also have to look at all the chaos in the midfield at the start of a race and apply the rule equally to them. That's the difficulty.

Except that McLaren operate a two year development cycle using different design teams (or at least they did) and their cars have recently been off the pace out of the box.

It's not as simple as designing a new part for next year and then just slotting it onto this year's car. It's also naive to think that Newey won't have something else up his sleeve for next year.

Quote from tristancliffe :

Well, Button might. Hamilton wouldn't stand a chance.

But let's not forget that Vettel is quite probably the best racing driver ever...

My sarcasm detector is beeping!

Button is slowly but surely swinging the team to him. He is so obviously comfortable in his own skin compared to Lewis and I would imagine he is much easier for team members to build relationships with. I'm not sure how all the troops in the trench at McLaren react to Lewis "The Shizzle Dizzle" Hamilton and all his celebrity friends. No one likes a Billy Big Boots.

The Vettel/Button move and the Hamilton/Massa are not the same, but there's little point in trying to explain is there?

I think with 15 laps to go Dario had 15 push to pass and Ed had 8.

Quote from BlueFlame :

I'll just slam on early in LFS and admins will give YOU a DT. Ok, it's an exaggeration, but there's a line between blocking/defending and just trying to wreck anothers race.

I'm not saying Hamilton didn't make a mis-judgement, I'm saying he made LESS of a mis-judgement, given that Massa lifted on the apex.

What has "slamming on" got to do with anything? If you don't have an argument then don't post.

It's also irrelevant. It was Massa's corner and he is entitled to drive it at a speed that he chooses. Should everyone who block passes in motorsport be banned?

Quote from BlueFlame :

Well, I expect nothing else from Ferrari to be honest, they see Hamilton as a target for an easy DT or penalty, and use it against him by lifting on the apex of corners etc

Have you ever participated in sport at any sort of serious level?

This is just sound tactics - Ferrari exploiting a flaw in the opposition. At the very least Hamilton is out of position and as it happened his flaw was exposed and he ruined his own race.

This happens in all sports. Darts players may slow their play to disrupt their rival's rhythm. Footballers will wind up a known psychopath on the other team to provoke a reaction. Cricketers sledge - Rod Marsh famously tried to wind up Ian Botham by asking him, "How's your wife and my kids?"

You do what it takes within the rules to win.

I assume you're banning TC then?

Or more accurately, it sounds like this:

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-v ... -m5-video-review-feature/

I'm getting the E60 next year, then straight down the Chav shop to make it sound like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fumMvKUFXl8

Trouser stiffening.

Playing stuff through the stereo is not new - it's usually used to cancel out wind roar etc. The new McLaren doesn't use the stereo to "emotionally enhance" the driving experience, but they did change the design to naturally filter more noise into the cabin.

Quote from Boris Lozac :

Vettel and Red Bull are killing this season, so predictable.

No, they are not. Ferrari, McLaren and Webber are at fault for not providing a stronger challenge.

Nick is their second driver, so in a team needing sponsorship he can expect to be vulnerable.

Good chance to see what, if anything, Bruno has.

No worries Ben - you were the first of several, but most of the others stuck half a nose in at the hairpin and spun me round; very tedious.

Quote from shaun463 :

Cobain was victim of many things happening in his life - it was inevitable.

Rubbish - he took the easy way out. Unfortunately, not the easy way for his daughter was it? Coward.

Flat in 7th, with KERS and DRS on through Schumacher S for Red Bull - mighty

Quote from theodinho29 :

It's a shame ... Still a lot of players use this view and you do nothing to help us
It could have avoided a lot of crashes ... Too bad.

Drivers cause crashes, not views. If you can't see behind then you must assume something is there and drive appropriately.

Or use the proper view.

Wonder how many other drivers would be as frank and honest about the situation as Webber? Even Hamilton seems to be behaving himself - notice he praised the team on the radio when he was thinking, and I was expecting him to say, "Un-frickin' believeable! Who decided on the fuel level?"

Quote from Mackie The Staggie :

Not according to his twitter, I think Dario's off the Christmas car list this year.

I understand why Power feels the way he does, and credit where credits due, Dario held his hands up and admitted he was at fault, but the way Power is acting right now is a bit out of order. By no stretch of the imagination is Dario a dirty driver, but Power effectively claimed he was the dirtiest on the track. Having said that I was surprised that no one got a penalty in that race, I suppose it was consistent throughout though.

Speak in haste, repent at leisure. Stick a microphone under a driver's nose after a race like that and he'll say all sorts of things that, on reflection, might not be the smartest thing to say. eg Hamilton.

Quote from Mustafur :

The commentators where saying that the off throttle exhuasts where hurting webber as he couldn't extract the maximum out of it and thats why he has been right on it in the last two grand prix after they have been limited/banned, Not sure if thats the case though.

There might be something in that. Webber is able to blow his own diffuser better than Vettel. After Webber schooled the German at Monaco and Spain in successive races, Renault developed an off throttle system that removed the Aussie's advantage.

Quote from Intrepid :

Though it has to be said that F1 must be in a pretty sad state of affairs engineering and innovation wise if the 'noise of the engine' is a decisive factor in regulations and a critical news item.

I thought Top Gear last week was a great example of how Bernie was quite right about the noise.