Woah mate - that sounds like a very nasty way to find out they've disabled "Reset" in real life too.

Glad to hear that you are better. I saw your name somewhere (maybe in the "Who's online" bit of owrl.de) a couple of days ago and I wondered where you had been.

Quote from NotAnIllusion :

Here's a decent angle on the Massa-Bourdais incident
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=e2u93VT7m2s

That's just the view from the international feed - nothing new.

Seb's penalty was not a retrospective drive through - they announced they were going to investigate after the race. That means the penalty is appealable.

Do you think Scuderia Toro Rosso Ferrari will appeal?

Well I have to say that's a poor decision on the face of it, although TV viewers only got one view from the outside of the track. Makes you wonder what the onboards show. It could be that Bourdais clips the inside kerb and pops out wide into Massa, or maybe the back steps out and he corrects it into Massa.

Can't really judge it from what we have seen, although I suppose judgment will take a back seat for the next hour or two in this thread.

It's a good idea, surely there would be enough interest in this?

So I guess all the privacy lovers on here are steadfastly standing shoulder to shoulder with Max Moseley in his new privacy case?

Quote from A.Ulleri :

No other series in the world has problems with Full course yellows. The problem is having one pitcrew for two cars. F1 needs to stop trying to be so unique in their rules and start looking at other series for what works.

What you mean is no other series has a problem with seemingly random results - in Indycar, fuel economy victories a la Danica Patrick are not scorned but lauded as legitimate wins.

The saftey car is used too frequently - there's no reason why Piquet's car could not have been cleared under double waved yellows - "caution, workers on track, slow - be prepared to stop."

I'll be driving, unfortunately it will be at Kyalami

Car - Cooper T81b

I haven't been since the Mansell days either. We bought 1 general ticket and 2 Grandstands (Copse) for the three of us. First two of us went into the grandstand, then one went out taking both tickets and he came back in with the guy who only had the general ticket.

There was a samba band at the front of the grandstand all cheering for Senna of course. Some Mansell fans didn't like them taking over the place so one nipped out and came back with a stick and some string whilst another bought a Senna doll. Hey Presto - one Senna Hangman Noose. It drove the samba band potty, but not half as much as watching Mansell win whilst Senna ran out of fuel.

Take your own sandwiches and a laptop to while away the hours waiting to get out of the carpark.

If Bernie had ever seen Aston GP or Kyoto GP Long then he would have given Eric the job. Imagine what Eric could do if he did have to make the track work in a reverse config!

Quote from Gentlefoot :

GPL? Is that every Sunday night?

Yes - Division 1 (1967) alternates with Interleague races where we get whipped by a different GPL league twice a month.

Quote from BlueFlame :

Keith Huewen? Don't you mean Toby Moody?

I think he does. I think Toby Moody (who does like and follow car racing) would be great alongside Brundle, but Legard is fine by me and if they pick up Toby and Jules for MotoGP then the BBC will go up in my estimation.

Might be able to do it, but Sunday nights are now GPL nights.

Congrats LOTA - the only league worth staying up until 4 in the morning for!

I've only ever done 1 LOTA race but I enjoyed it immensely. Keep up the good work!

Quote from de Souza :

I think the "confusion" is because, as far as I know, there isn't a rule that says that you have to give back the position after an illegal overtake.

Quote from NotAnIllusion :

There is.

There isn't and the fact that Lewis said after the "I gave back the position like the rules say" only goes to show that the drivers do not read the rules.

The rule says that the drivers must stay on the defined track at all times. The rules are then married to the principle of gaining an advantage. Hence a penalty.

Quote from OldBloke :

Not sure if anyone's read this.

And the sport was doomed after the Indianapolis non-race, or after Senna was killed, or because of the FISA-FOCA war, or because of the super-licence strike etc etc

"Sunday was the darkest and most bewilderingly stupid day ever for F1." - what?? What with this and SamH's amateur dramatics about how the sport is ruined forever for him... get a grip! This sort of thing happens every week in countless other sports. Most football fans will feel the cheating robbing bastard of a referee has a vendetta against their club.

It's a contentious decision. That's all. Move along. New race along in a couple of days.

Do you own your screen, or is it Mummy's?

Quote from dungbeetle :

Thanks for that chunky.

Looking at that, I honestly (and I mean honestly) can't see what Hamilton is supposed to have done wrong.

He lets Kimi through and then simply outbreaks him at the next turn.

What possible advantage could he have got from slipstreaming Kimi anyway? The cars were all over the place in the wet, so they were both trying to go slower and steadier. If anything, Hamilton may have even lost downforce (and hence grip) by being directly behind Kimi.

By going over the chicane, being ahead and then letting Kimi through he was in a position to fight at the next corner. That position was earned by going over the chicane. Just the same as Alonso in 2005.

Perhaps he would have been in that position if he had followed Kimi through the chicane. Perhaps not. Doesn't matter - he was where he was because he cut the chicane. There is nothing in the rules about letting a driver past you making you immune to the rules. You must drive on the track at all times. If you don't and you gain from doing so then say Hello to Mr Penalty.

Quote from ATC Quicksilver :

Sorry I meant everyone with eyes that enjoys proper racing, don't worry I'm sure the next race will be like Valencia so you can enjoy it. Perhaps you guys should take a look further back in the thread where I said I wanted Kimi to win not Mr Arrogant UK "thou shalt not pass me".

it was amusing to see his interview - "no one will ever pass me on the outside again", then 20 minutes later...

Proper racing does not include cheating.

Quote from ATC Quicksilver :

Lewis won, everyone saw it and agrees that he won that race. Massa settled for third because he can't drive a car on a slightly damp road let alone a fully wet one. I watched an entertaining, hard fought race, it finished with Hamilton crossing the line first. From that point Hamilton had won the race in my eyes, BBC News told me Massa won a few hours later, but imo you can only win on the track, not on the news.

Rubbish. And who made you Spokesman For The Human Race? Not everyone agrees with you (thank goodness!)

Quote from Mackie The Staggie :

Is it just me, or do you think it's possible that Lewis could have held off the throttle and slot in behind Kimi, therefore avoiding the cut. I know that Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but maybe that's what bothering the stewards more than anything else

Possibly - he didn't have to leap left and gas it looking at the inboard. At the point he gave up using the track he was behind so could have eased off.

Quote from dungbeetle :

Really?

And did Klien then stuff it into the wall before the finish so it wouldn't have made a blind bit of difference anyway?

That's a stupid position to take. It's like saying you'll award a penalty and send a player off for denying a goalscoring opportunity in football but if the penalty is scored you'll let the sent off player back on.

Get a grip. It does not matter that Kimi didn't finish. it does not matter that Kimi squeezed him off the road. The sporting regs and international code do not caveat the rules by saying, "Oh well, if he's tries to overtake on the outside, on slicks, in the wet and the guy taking the inside line drifts wide forcing him over the tarmac runoff then it's open season - ignore the rules."

Hamilton initiated the whole situation by attempting the pass - everything flows from there. Maybe Kimi should get a 5 place grid penalty for forcing Hamilton wide, but then again given the grip / tyre situation he was not going to be able to take a tight line in an stay there. Hamilton should have expected that.

Quote from samh :

okay
http://argent.fia.com/web/fia- ... ulations%2011-07-2008.pdf

:d

2009

Quote from SamH :

No, the simple application of physics is all that is needed here.

If he had not cut the corner then he and Kimi would have been out of the race. Kimi forced Hamilton off the track. Did you not see? Did you not re-watch the video?.. hello??

I see your Lewis blinkers are well and truly fixed on so I won't waste time carrying this on - I'm not a Ferrari fan BTW.

Kimi was ahead when Lewis left the track. If they had touched at that point then just like Heikki before him Hamilton would have been penalised for causing avoidable contact. His only opportunity to avoid a penalty would be to slow down as by being anywhere near Kimi and overtaking him he is taking advantage of cutting the track.

I will check back after my GPL race for your quotes from the Sporting Regulations about corner cutting. Don't forget now.