I managed to decipher your lapses of txt spk into real words, and came to the following conclusion.
Get a paper round. Or wash some cars. Or get a job. Or anything that will earn you the money for S2. Having an XRT isn't some kind of divine right.
@ JTbo: Nope. I've just been trying using some of the ideas in the other thread, and it simply won't work with anything I've tried so far.
If each view direction could be assigned a different key in LFS, it'd work great. You could use the Logitech Profiler to make the upper diagonals represent the 45° look, and the full left and right to represent the 90° look. Sweet.
Where it falls down is that the Profiler can't assign two keystrokes to one button. It can assign a command to one button, but when you record the command to look to one side, it just sticks there unless you record another command to release the keys, which then has to be assigned to another button on the DFP, all of which is basically a long-winded version of what Hallen said.
I've tried using the LFS script system to combine the two look keys to a single ALT+F bind (which can then be assigned to a controller button), but so far without success. If there's no way round this then we're back to square one that I was "whinging"
about in the test patch forum - that the view controls in X30 are arbitrarily curtailed depending on your controller. :-/
@ Cue-ball: no resource-hogging "real" mirrors necessary imho - just bring back the old view controls! :cry:
If each view direction could be assigned a different key in LFS, it'd work great. You could use the Logitech Profiler to make the upper diagonals represent the 45° look, and the full left and right to represent the 90° look. Sweet.
Where it falls down is that the Profiler can't assign two keystrokes to one button. It can assign a command to one button, but when you record the command to look to one side, it just sticks there unless you record another command to release the keys, which then has to be assigned to another button on the DFP, all of which is basically a long-winded version of what Hallen said.
I've tried using the LFS script system to combine the two look keys to a single ALT+F bind (which can then be assigned to a controller button), but so far without success. If there's no way round this then we're back to square one that I was "whinging"
about in the test patch forum - that the view controls in X30 are arbitrarily curtailed depending on your controller. :-/@ Cue-ball: no resource-hogging "real" mirrors necessary imho - just bring back the old view controls! :cry:
What, from within LFS? So if you're racing on one server and someone on your buddy list joins another, it lets you know?
Must go search now...
Thanks for the quick tutorial, I'd like to give that a go.
I've a couple of buttons at the bottom of my DFP that barely get used which would be ideal for a quick zoom in/out whilst on a straight. Won't really be able to use it round South City though. Now, is there any way to use the Logitech profiler or LFS scripts (or combination of both) to overcome the current view control limitations (so I can look fully to each side with the D-pad)? What I need to do is assign a single direction on the D-pad to represent the two button presses for a full look, which then releases when I release the D-pad. All I've been able to achieve so far is combining the look functions, but then they don't release when I let go the D-pad - the view just stays stuck out to the side.
One would hope so. The analogue speedos are certainly near impossible to read accurately on your average monitor with a wide enough PoV for some spatial awareness.
It doesn't bother me too much as personally I can usually tell if the revs seem to be screaming when I have a tail wind down a straight, but the digital speedo was useful to glance at after you've exited an important corner to see how well you did.
It's not a huge deal for me but I can see why some people are frustrated that it's gone. It doesn't add or detract anything to the realism imho, in fact the reason I presumed the digital option was ever provided was as a useful concession to the fact that the world of LFS is being represented on a monitor screen, not real life. Clearly, I was wrong on this presumption.
Oops, sorry, forgot - edited it out above in my post. 
Just watched this tonight on Virgin Media TV on demand (gotta love it )
Fantastic piece - I don't think Clarkson has ever cried on TV before has he?
And is the Stig really that blindingly quick, or are the other drivers just a bit crap? I know they dramatised his stints, but presumably they wouldn't make up the basic figures about how many people he passed in a hastily-modified 330d? Gained 20 places in the first stint, 8 in another? Impressive stuff.
)Fantastic piece - I don't think Clarkson has ever cried on TV before has he?
And is the Stig really that blindingly quick, or are the other drivers just a bit crap? I know they dramatised his stints, but presumably they wouldn't make up the basic figures about how many people he passed in a hastily-modified 330d? Gained 20 places in the first stint, 8 in another? Impressive stuff.
Last edited by STROBE, .
Reason : removed the Stig's identity
Yes, it's quite understandable.
Just completely irrelevant to the concept of representing a driver's point of view on a monitor.
Was just about to post almost the exact same thing.
There are some things that people shouldn't whine about - such as demo racers whinging that they can't freeload off the devs anymore by forever using the XRT, or those that refuse to manage clutch heat or expect to flatshift now that throttle cut is gone.
But things like FOV, speedometers, look functions, viewpoints, and so on should imho be the choice of the individual as they don't affect the physics, mechanics or anything else of the gameplay. The choices made with these simply reflect a user's system, including CPU power, monitor size and arrangement, and controller. Nobody except Scawen has any right to tell me what FOV I use (frankly, 20° is plain idiocy and completely unrealistic - unless you're in the habit of wearing a balaclava with small eye holes on the outside of a full face helmet. Or some kind of arrangement involving bincoluars).
But since everyone is not you, what does that have to do with anything?
There isn't a release date for S2 Final, let alone S3 - so you may as well just get an S2 licence and enjoy driving it in the meantime.
Yeah, the government doesn't have anything to do with the almost 70% tax they levy on fuel, it's them damn A-rabs!
Of course it's those Saudi's fault that the UK govt has the cheek to tax the tax on fuel, too.
I'll have to agree on this point - and I was one of those who was openly cautious and dubious about the gearbox changes beforehand, and yet it's been brilliantly implemented imho. Sure, there might be some fine tuning needed in some areas, but the basics are great and create more immersion and challenge. The balance seems good too - a practised three-pedal user can probably change gear fastest of all in the H-gate cars as well as having the finest control (I'm finding it extremely difficult to blip on downchange with the autoclutch, because it's not me that's doing the clutching), but autoclutching is a perfectly viable and competitive alternative for two-pedallers or those learning the new gearbox.
The only problem I have with this patch is the change in view controls, which I can neither fathom out, nor understand why some are defending them...
Not sure what your DFP is shaped like, but on mine the L2 and R2 buttons are the furthest away from the rim - hardly convenient.
Currently they're mapped to traction control and pit limiter for me, as it's the rarely used functions such as those that you can afford to have in the less accessible places on the wheel.I concur - using the POV hat / D-pad is instinctive and natural on the DFP.
I think it'd be great if the look function wasn't made a two-button process, and inherited some of the old functionality. Still having it as a two-step process will rob one controller or another of being able to use it. Assuming that G25 owners use the two red buttons on the wheel to look, G25ers can look a full 90° to each side, but not behind. Us DFPers using the D-pad can only look 45° to each side, but can use the down direction on the D-pad to look straight behind.
None of it seems consistent or logical, especially when considering the old adage - if it aint broke, don't fix it.
The reason the old side view system wasn't broken (although I agree with the new principle of not being able to look behind in race cars or single seaters) was because a full and instant 90° glance to each side is an essential tool to compensate for the fact that a monitor screen has such a limited FOV compared to real life. In reality you have peripheral vision. You might not notice it much, and the human eye can't focus on or determine any details about anything in the peripheral vision, but even a slight turn of your head in reality gives you awareness of a car or movement out of the corner of your eye, equivalent to a full 90° in LFS.
Think about when driving your own car, on the road. If you want to check whether there is a car alongside your driver's door, do you need to twist your neck a full 90°? Of course not, your peripheral vision can do most of the work for you. Obviously a helmet reduces some of that peripheral vision, but it's still there. There is no peripheral vision in LFS (or any other game that is played on a single screen), which is why it's so important for all users of all controllers to be able to configure look controls that allow safe and clean driving online. Otherwise I fear that online public racing is going to get a lot messier in future.
I have to agree. Love the patch. I was cautious about the clutching for us two-pedal guys, and any penalisation, but it's good. The clutch modelling feels good, you can really feel the engine inertia if you get back on the gas too soon after a gearchange or change down a gear whilst cornering on the limit.
But, the changes to the view controls... oh dear. I don't have a G25 with a single big red button on each side of the wheel, I have a DFP which has a POV hat and can't do a double button press to look 90° to each side. The 45° view is useless. Maybe I can fix it in the Logitch profiler or something, but was there really any need for this change? It seems arbitrary, and frustrating.
In a real racing car, I'd have a helluva lot more peripheral vision than a 17" monitor provides me. And besides, in an XFG I can only look 45° with a button press to the side which allegedly is too generous for racing seats, but an equal button press allows me to crane my neck around to look straight out the back window? Hardly seems to make sense.
Just bring back the choice of a 90° side view please.
And what does that say in English?
Sell it and buy an intelligent vBulletin plugin that can block repetitive and tiresome barbed comments about LFS not having a whole army of developers.
None. I played S1 on someone else's computer for the first time, and got my own licence straight away without even bothering using the demo version on my own computer.
S1 only lasted me a few months before I got tired of the limited cars and tracks, so I didn't really touch LFS from late 2003/early 2004 to mid-2005 when S2 was out. But since S2 was released I've pretty much been clocking up the miles every month.
S1 only lasted me a few months before I got tired of the limited cars and tracks, so I didn't really touch LFS from late 2003/early 2004 to mid-2005 when S2 was out. But since S2 was released I've pretty much been clocking up the miles every month.
No it's not. The accelerator pedal spring on my old MS Sidewinder wheel just snapped, totally unexpectedly, a while ago. And although my first DFP went up the creek due to some power failure inside the wheel, we've all read about the problems the DFP pedals can have. My second DFP (provided under warranty - excellent service from Logitech) has noticeably better feeling pedals, presumably just a better batch as both sets were rev. B.
Umm, actually I think you'll find I'm generally on the side of realism. The pro-FCV argument had merit in that it was simply an issue of viewpoint and realism, not a question of controller hardware or expenditure to acquire said hardware. As mentioned, I expect some slight penalisation for having some automatic help with my pedal-less clutch and so on, but if the cost of having some help due to not having a G25 goes too far then it's not an improvement, just a pain in the arse.
Well, that's reassuring. I'm generally pretty gentle with the controls, and I keep the FFB strength on the low end of medium. Naturally if I had a pair of ECCI pedals I wouldn't think twice about all the lifting - I've tried the lifting before and enjoyed the extra involvement, but went back to auto throttle cut simply out of concern at the wear rate of the springs and pots being increased (at least) dozenfold.
Very true, I agree. It's a difficult balance for Scawen to strike, and I guess that whatever he does with the controls will upset some people. The fact that LFS can be played on such a wide range of PC hardware, from an early Pentium IV to the Core2Duo, is one of the reasons LFS is so popular. Many people wouldn't be playing it if they were forced to use the latest and greatest hardware. I don't see why it should be any different when it comes to controller hardware.
My foot is capable, but I doubt my plastic pedals will appreciate it. A pair of plastic Logitech DFP pedals has nowhere near the durability of a real car pedal, and releasing and pressing the pedal fully as quickly as possible on every gear change will reduce the lifespan dramatically. I agree with what I saw Kev post somewhere - by all means give a slight advantage to those with the full 3-pedal & h-gate setups (afterall they should be rewarded for doing more work), but don't castrate those of us with two pedals who would rather not replace them every year and who have to rely on sequential paddle shifters and a button clutch.
I'm already alarmed by the rumour of the car stalling when you spin unless you manually put the clutch in. Fine, if you have a third pedal - after all it's instinct to dip your left foot and press the clutch. But how am I going to keep the clutch in by holding a button on a twirling, shaking wheel? Hopefully, such rumours will prove to be unfounded and there will continue to be concessions for those without the latest and greatest controller hardware.
Not personally as I'm not particularly interested in more route variations, but what we need is some new fresh tarmac to drive on: new environments.
Still looking forward to the refinements to South City and Blackwood though.
Ah, right, cheers.
Eric's made the kerbs realistic then. Holy crap. I've been on and off this forum all day, and somehow I missed this until now.
Looks great. The AI doesn't interest me, and the lack of GTR interiors is a disappointment, but the addition of a new single seater looks to be great. I'm more pleased to read/watch about Scawen getting some single seater experience, and judging by the Avon tyre bridge at Blackwood, some input from a tyre company too? Great stuff. I'll be interested to see how the clutch is modelled and how it will affect/penalise those of us without a clutch pedal. I was particularly concerned by the mention of having to lift on cars that don't engage the clutch to change gear. I always drive with throttle cut on - not because I'm lazy, but because a pair of plastic Logitech pedals is nowhere near as strong as a real life car pedal, and can probably do without being battered up and down on every single gear change.
Nice to see Eric involved too, pity he doesn't stop by the forum once in a while. Leo looks cute walking around and nearly sitting on the front wing.
Regarding the tracks, what exactly has changed at the Blackwood chicane? I saw the comparison pics on the previous page, but the perspectives are different and using some reference points, it looks as though precious little has changed at the chicane. Can anyone detail exactly what is different?
Looks great. The AI doesn't interest me, and the lack of GTR interiors is a disappointment, but the addition of a new single seater looks to be great. I'm more pleased to read/watch about Scawen getting some single seater experience, and judging by the Avon tyre bridge at Blackwood, some input from a tyre company too? Great stuff. I'll be interested to see how the clutch is modelled and how it will affect/penalise those of us without a clutch pedal. I was particularly concerned by the mention of having to lift on cars that don't engage the clutch to change gear. I always drive with throttle cut on - not because I'm lazy, but because a pair of plastic Logitech pedals is nowhere near as strong as a real life car pedal, and can probably do without being battered up and down on every single gear change.
Nice to see Eric involved too, pity he doesn't stop by the forum once in a while. Leo looks cute walking around and nearly sitting on the front wing.
Regarding the tracks, what exactly has changed at the Blackwood chicane? I saw the comparison pics on the previous page, but the perspectives are different and using some reference points, it looks as though precious little has changed at the chicane. Can anyone detail exactly what is different?
I don't know if it's the same for Nikons, but Sony/Minolta cameras automatically map out any bad/hot/stuck/dead pixels at the end of every month. Of course the trick to making the camera do it when you want it is to set the date to the end of the month, switch it off and back on again, and hey presto, any bad pixels will usually be gone. If Nikons can do this as well, it's well worth a go. Image sensors are, I presume, much like LCD monitors, in that a certain fault rate of individual pixels is to be expected.
I have the terrible urge to flame and berate someone in this topic so viciously that it would probably get me banned from here for quite some time.
Then again, I suspect that anyone with even two braincells and a milligram of common sense realises that the posts in question speak for themselves, and no further comment is needed. Except perhaps this one...
What, night vision eyes? Or headlamps powerful enough to illuminate a reasonable reaction+stopping distance at 120mph? Tell me, what kind of an alternator do you need to power headlamps like that? Is there any power left over get the car to 120? Or are you in fact just hopelessly trying to justify a moronic, illegal and easily lethal activity because your life is so pointless and aimless that you need to get an adrenaline fix from blasting up to stupid speeds in the dark with no hope of stopping in time for the unexpected because you're too stupid/selfish/inbred (delete as appropriate) to do the decent thing and drive at the limit on a racetrack?
You seem to be struggling with a simple little concept here. You never drive at the limit on a public road. Doesn't matter whether it's for 10 seconds, 10 minutes, or 10 hours. It's still flat out, it's still racing, it's still leaving no room for the unexpected.
Suppose you're just cruising home one night, or you have your girlfriend/wife/gay lover/friend/relative with you after a nice meal or a night out. You swing round the onramp and join the freeway, accelerating though 50, 60 mph. Then suddenly there's a blinding glare in your mirror and before you can react you've been piled into by someone travelling on the limit at more than twice your speed, and you get shunted into a tree or bridge pillar at over 90mph. And you're dead, through no fault of your own.
Is this what you're trying to justify?
Then again, I suspect that anyone with even two braincells and a milligram of common sense realises that the posts in question speak for themselves, and no further comment is needed. Except perhaps this one...
What, night vision eyes? Or headlamps powerful enough to illuminate a reasonable reaction+stopping distance at 120mph? Tell me, what kind of an alternator do you need to power headlamps like that? Is there any power left over get the car to 120? Or are you in fact just hopelessly trying to justify a moronic, illegal and easily lethal activity because your life is so pointless and aimless that you need to get an adrenaline fix from blasting up to stupid speeds in the dark with no hope of stopping in time for the unexpected because you're too stupid/selfish/inbred (delete as appropriate) to do the decent thing and drive at the limit on a racetrack?
You seem to be struggling with a simple little concept here. You never drive at the limit on a public road. Doesn't matter whether it's for 10 seconds, 10 minutes, or 10 hours. It's still flat out, it's still racing, it's still leaving no room for the unexpected.
Suppose you're just cruising home one night, or you have your girlfriend/wife/gay lover/friend/relative with you after a nice meal or a night out. You swing round the onramp and join the freeway, accelerating though 50, 60 mph. Then suddenly there's a blinding glare in your mirror and before you can react you've been piled into by someone travelling on the limit at more than twice your speed, and you get shunted into a tree or bridge pillar at over 90mph. And you're dead, through no fault of your own.
Is this what you're trying to justify?
errr... earth to Dennisjnr... slight difference between a controlled racetrack environment and presuming that there's nobody on a quiet stretch of public road. 
illepall
Nah, you're just pretty much plain wrong.
illepallNah, you're just pretty much plain wrong.
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG