Quote from Scawen :

The work for the next update is not yet done, and is still too far off to be able to give any sort of estimate.

Holy batman... i've been in development over 10 years in various forms from being a developer, to supporting technology, to deploying it and managing teams... I sure am glad I ain't your manager. I think your decision to move from "commercial game" development to running your own show was a brave move, but I gotta admit, there are some pro's to the commercial world... one of them is commercial pressure to releasing software in a timely manner and having people around you skilled in communicating delays and updates etc to the business and customer community.

I love LFS to bits, it has been my main source of online gaming enjoyment for over the past 5 years. In it's current form it is awesome and any improvements are just adding to the fun.

But guys, come on... really? Not a single update with any meat? Are you really going to tell everyone about a server move and not give any more information about the next release other than that line above?

Did you not take into consideration the fact such awful communication is going to fuel the fire of your CUSTOMERS already waning dedication? CUSTOMERS... that's what everyone on this forum is... a customer. It's as though you really don't care about the reputation this fantastic game is getting and are actually willing to add to the ammunition for the conspiracy theories and rumour mills.

You guys are nuts Or maybe smoking or drinking something stronger than I can get my hands on!

Last edited by yeager, Wed, 17 Feb 2010 08:36. Reason : Correcting bad grammar

Quote from Niels Heusinkveld :

Is there any sort of 'slip' model in there? Like GeneRally where your car does NOT go where the nose is pointing, you have to generate some sidewaysness first?

Kinda, not quite as good as GeneRally, but it's ok. I really want an updated GeneRally with multiplayer... I wonder if the GeneRally author might open source the code?

Quote from hazaky :

Looks like any other "this kind of" game.

If it would be in dx10, then i might check it out. Also, it could have a proper physics engine - helicopter view but meh ... handling is still important

Amazing... this forum really is totally full of whiney, critical, and negative people. Sorry this game isn't up to your standard...

I think i'm going to just use this forum to watch for updates to LFS and give up actually interacting with the community.

Was bored waiting for a system to build and did some searches and found this awesome little game.

http://solidcore.se/roadclub/index.php

Video here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jaCfQUALvAc

On easy setting it's WAY too easy, but turn it up and it's quite a challenge.

X + A != C except after me

Quote from The Very End :

The effect by it were reduced yes.

So i'm not mad, the current effects of slipstreaming are not really noticeable?

Quote from Ball Bearing Turbo :

That's odd, if there's one thing I DO remember about LFS, it was running close behind someone in the FOX and realizing that I was almost on ice in comparison to before I got so close to him. I was understeering into corners bigtime and at one point spun out accelerating out of a corner a few inches behind. I thought it was brilliant (not my driving :razz.

Hmm strange. I can be full throttle through the chicane at either AS3 or WE1 and be within a car length of the car in front and don't have a problem. Either i'm compensating without realizing (muscle memory?) or i'm just not sensitive to it. Wanna jump on a server and try it out sometime?

Quote from legoflamb :

This is just speculation. I think all of the down-force cars will be rejuvenated with the new tire physics. Those cars take better advantage when using the exploits. With an exploit setup and down-force people can keep pushing towards(never achieving) the infinite load that the tires are able to withstand and still provide grip.

I hope so. I cannot WAIT for the sensation of gaining grip with speed and having aero changes really have an impact. Plus I wonder how much more the drafting effect is going to change. I'm not so sure at the moment that grip is lost when close to the dirty air of the car in front. I certainly don't feel it much in the FOX.

Quote from jrd.racer :

edit: LOL 2 and a half pages of pointless arguing in one day.

Which is well under the normal number

Wow now thats responsive, good man. I'll have a play over the weekend.

Quote from Dac :

Scawen and co have developed a very good product with a large user base, so it's only natural that they want it too continue. It's like building a very good car and then deciding not making spare parts and accessories for it.

The problem we have is that we know there is enough money in LFS for it too become a lot more, but the developers refusal to employ more coders is always going to hinder progress and make it second best. Without updates LFS will go downhill because the competitors are competing, and the majority wont stick around to play a dinosaur like they will the bigger sims.

Well put. The attitude of those that say "well you bought the game and you shouldn't expect updates..." is crazy. There are a large number of people begging for the game to be improved, many people offering spare time, experience, even MONEY!. Yet it is resisted for whatever reason. I don't care for the detail, but the facts are plain. People love LFS, they want more and waiting well over a year for a big release is damaging the community. Sure you can get into the detail of how the developers want to play the game... but the fact remains. Demand is there and it's not being met either with adequate communication nor product updates. Of course if the developers of the product truly don't care then it begs the questions why do this in the first place? They must have a desire to be successful and that can only be achieved with reasonable timing and good communication.

I used to work for Eidos and I hated the attitude of the big games companies. I once had an interview for Codemasters, and didn't like their way of working at all. So I totally understand the desire to not have the traditional corporate baggage. BUT you can't just develop something that people really like need and then not communicate with them effectively. A balance must be achieved and it's obvious it's not quite there yet.

It is testament to how good the game is. I can't imagine any other game with such old graphics and slow development ever actually lasting this long. I sometimes feel like i'm still playing Duke Nukem when I know that I could be playing Call of Duty!

Last edited by yeager, Tue, 26 Jan 2010 20:27.

Shake it all about...

Quote from legoflamb :

I disagree that complaining is down to dis-communication.

The only reason some people feel compelled to complain/gripe/wine/cry over LFS updates is because there is a possibility that the developers will continue to improve what they have already made. Since there are those people who don't think about why they want to gripe publicly, the rest of the forum community have to scroll through pointless posts to get to something interesting. These people don't understand that it is just impulsive, because it is pointless and will go nowhere.

Please stop cluttering our forums.

Why are there any frustrations about updates in LFS, or for any game for that mater? For what it is worth the "SCAVIER"team could stop working on their sim project and LFS would be just like any other racing game that you may have in your stockpile of racing games. We didn't pay 24 pounds for future LFS, we paid for the game as it is, or was. The price hasn't even gone up to account for inflation. Buying LFS because you expect some sort of updates has been a gamble since the beginning. However, I would be bummed if they stopped. I'm gambling right now with good odds, it'll just take a while.

Here are some words of advice.

The 3 (and only) ways to get individual(s) to do what you want:

1. Motivation: Find a way to get the individual(s) to want what you want. (most important)
   
2. Suggestion: Communicate your idea calmly, without complaint, to the individual(s), and wait to see if they agree.
   
3. Demand: Force the individual(s) to do what you want. (works only if there is leverage on the individual(s))
   

Anything not on this list is just pure griping. I classify griping as an alternative to suggesting or demanding for those who have childlike minds. Since people know demanding like children will get nowhere, they choose to gripe. Adults or grown adolescent kids who gripe are just like children making demands to their parents for the candy bar in the grocery store. A gripe is the same as a tantrum. It is compulsive complaining that leads to nothing and makes those people look like children in public. Those people may be able to get away with that on forums, but I as sure as hell hope those people don't do it in the workplace or at an education facility. If you are someone who would gripe, go to your mirror in your washroom and look at yourself while you gripe about something. Or you could just read one of your posts to yourself in front of the mirror.

You've obviously never run a successful business. Communication is KEY to making anything successful. No use having the best product in the world if you can't communicate anything about it.

I think my post was a calm suggestion that a lot of the "clutter" on this forum could be eased with a simple monthly update.

Of course I was in serious denial if I thought my comments would pass by without another thread decaying into debate. I think i'll get back to what I enjoy most... actually racing in LFS and forgetting there will ever be an update. Then if it does ever come, what a wonderful and welcome surprise that will be.

Quote from Crashgate3 :

Do cars have to pass stringent yearly roadworthiness tests in the US?

I'm purely going from what I've seen on the TV here, but it strikes me that you can get away with having a car in much worse condition over there.

Depends on the state. In California you have a 3 year emissions test, but that's pretty much it. I've seen some VERY unsafe cars on the road here in San Francisco. I've seen tyres worn down to the metal and pieces of car hanging off on the freeway.

No wonder I see cars on their roof on wet days going down a very straight piece of highway. Driving in the bay area is shockingly bad but it keeps my LFS skills sharp

Quote from AcesHigh :

Why report when there is nothing to report

Because nearly every problem with people on this forum waiting and complaining is down to communication. LFS is a fantastic game and i've gotten WAY more fun for the money than any other software.

However the developers really do a poor job of communicating their work to the user community. Why report no progress? Simply because people are waiting and a few words of assurance that things are still under way but no dates yet to report goes a long, long way.

There is so much frustration on this forum simply because nobody really knows what and when things will happen. A simple few lines every month, giving just a little insight into what is going on, would ease tension a great deal. Especially when updates are over a year late.

In my mind the delay is totally justified and I am 100% behind taking all the time the developers need to produce a product they feel is of quality. How long it takes, for me, is not the issue. The inconsistent communication is.

Come on guys, you have a huge community of loyal followers willing to pay well above the asking price for fabulous updates to the best online racing simulator ever made. All we ask is for, say once a month, a small summary of how you are getting on... effective communication can go a long, long way and I would hate to think people are leaving LFS due to it.

Quote from Stuff :

Hrm.. about the only reason it complains about a header error is because of the versions. They are kinda sneaky. I thought I put in a robust enough check to get them all but I guess not. I will poke at it tonight to see what the differences are and get it to work..

Sorry about the lack of development for this version but don't worry, I'm developing a whole new editor instead. No ETA for that yet but will share if anyone is working on something similar.

And yep, my old lfsnal.org site is definitely out of date. Best place is here.. for now. Meh, another item on my to-do list.

Cheers. I also ran into another bug.

1. Create a new layout, selecting BL3
2. From the toolbar select the "object line" button
3. Click anywhere on the map, Lyte exits without error and nothing in the log.

I've just started to make a real life AutoX track on BL3 and I wanted to make small changes IN LFS and save them and then edit also in Lyte. Unfortunately, the BL3 layout is created in a non valid format when I save in LFS and get the error.

---------------------------
Sorry
---------------------------
Unexpected error!?

Header error: BL3_test.lyt

If it doesn't exist, LYTe.log has been created with this error message appended to it. Please report this to Stuff via the LFS forum.

The log contains only...

[1/25/2010 12:56:44 PM] Header error: BL3_test.lyt

Any chance you know what the error in the header is? If so, can way it can be fixed in Lyte? I'll try some more testing and doing a diff between an AU and BL layout, see if I can manually edit the BL3 one to work, but it's going to be a painful process. Nice if Lyte could be fixed...

Bump for a larger area please. I'm going to be doing some autocross in the bay area (San Francisco, Oakland) and most places have parking lots larger than the current area in LFS. For example...

http://lubrify.com/autox/courses/monster_park2.jpg

Can we please at least double the existing autocross area so that more real life autocross locations can be replicated in the simulator?

Quote from tristancliffe :

I would probably try to walk the centreline of the circuit and use a constant width, or walk two laps on the inside and outside edge.

My friend is going with me, I was thinking of both having our iPhones and use a GPS tool that allows us to mark waypoints as we walk. This way we can both be on the inside and outside of the track and mark each cone we pass. I was hoping we can then translate this data exactly to the location of cones in LFS.

I'll get the data first and see how easily we can transpose into an LFS layout.

Here is a video for reference, the cones are well placed apart and they use some chalk or paint to outline the track.

http://vimeo.com/7510598

Awesome... the layout is going to be at the Oakland Arena and in the past it's looked like...

http://lubrify.com/autox/courses/monster_park2.jpg

I wonder if we could get a feature request in for S3 to double the size of the AutoX layout to help us get some real life courses recreated. I would seem fair if we had something akin to a large section of an airfield or a large parking lot like the Oakland Arena one.

Guys

I am going to start competing in some local AutoX events. I'm thinking of being a bit cheeky. My plan is during the morning's walk of the course, I want to use my GPS phone to map the track. Then once I have this data i'd like to use it to quickly create an AutoX track in LFS. I will actually be taking a laptop and my G25 to the event so whilst other classes are competing, I will be able to sit in the car and practice the event

I've had a look at the file format... http://en.lfsmanual.net/wiki/File_Formats#LYT

How accurate is this? Has anyone developed an editor which writes out it's own LYT?

Any ideas are welcome...

If the seats have gone, what will everybody sit on?

I'm hunting down some track action in the bay area (I live in San Francisco) and came across the following video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RQ8gReNNMk

Watching this I realised, OMG, this is JUST like a good LFS race. It has all the elements... people just catching the grass and spinning out, catching someone infront and rubbing a bit of bumper, mad starts, crazy overtakes... and the guy on the first lap who goes wide and then cuts the entire track to end up in the gravel MUST be an LFS n00b

Quote from logitekg25 :

i love tracks like this....i have the best sets for these, no damage=fun :hide:

Want to zip up your sets and share as well? Might go nicely with the track layout.

Quote from Mikjen :

Thanks for mentioning -OsR- Old skool Racing
<<Shameless Plug>>

Best way to keep a server busy,

1. Dont stand for idiot racers, kick them asap
2. always make sure there are a couple of people in
3. keep the track the same, No end race every lap
4. keep downtime to a minimum
5. Have Race officials watching every race,

Having fun

Actually, servers which host the SAME track ALL the time get old very quick. You need some track rotation, although I agree, changing every race is silly.