Quote from Hankstar :

Well, good then Yes, LFS tracks could definitely stand to be more interesting on the whole :up: There are a few bits in LFS that are quite nasty, like the drop-off hilly chicane at Aston - actually, that's about it. You're right - probably not enough

I love that two part of the track as well as the one before last corner on AS. Those 2 downhill chicanes as well as that mentioned corner made me fall in love with AS initially.
Like you said, we need much more of that.

Quote from Hankstar :

I don't know that LFS is so unrealistic track-wise. Try T1 at Brands Hatch in any sim ... Nordschleife, Brands, Bathurst, Lime Rock, Laguna Seca and many RL tracks all have dramatic elevation changes and some well-tricky corners (maybe not Lime Rock, but it's steep in the back section). I reckon if Laguna Seca didn't exist IRL and you found it in some racing game somewhere, the first time you came to the Corkscrew you'd go "hell no, that just isn't realistic!"

You seem to have misunderstood me.
I'm saying that LFS does NOT have decent elevation changes and blind corners most RL tracks sport.
Hence why they feel very arcade and "flat" to me.

@ Deggis
Well the issue with the kerbs, grass and feedback is an issue of track modeling rather then the code IMO. in RL, if you touch the kerb or a a side gets on grass, you feel it.
Kerbs shake madly at low speeds and make a loud noise at higher speeds as well as harden you wheel (harden might not be the correct term but you get the idea).
While sand will really unbalance your car in RL, due to the slowing nature of it, grass feels slippery but controllable. You also feel it really good on the wheel as it lightens immensely.
However, neither makes you lose it as it's represented in LFS.

Last edited by gohfeld23, Mon 9 Jul 2007, 04:25.

Quote from steve :

Are you guys running CRT monitors in like 60hz maybe? I cant even stand 60hz LCD flicker, ewwww just kills my eyes.

LCD's don't flicker...just thought you should know.
As far as X and headaches..YES. I have started getting some headaches from X and I think I know why.
If you play patch W or even V and then fire up X, you'll notice X being much more choppy and "laggy" or whatever you want to call it.

I first thought it was just me playing too much but it seems more people have noticed this.

At the risk of being flamed, I just tried out rFactor and actually liked it.
If it wasn't for the wheel lag, I'd most likely leave LFS for a while.
The reason for this are tracks and wheel feedback.

First off, the tracks in rF really provide the driver with some challenges. From elevation changes and blind corners to differences in surface shape. This, combined with the slight shake effect, really provides you with a sense of speed as well as environment...2 things LFS is badly missing.
Tracks are also much slower yet feel the correct speed. (210kph feels as fast as it should...heck 150 does as well)

Another thing that LFS needs is proper feedback in regards to wheel slip, surface, kerbs and grass/sand.

This all makes the BF1 in rF so much more fun then LFS.
I think the main issue with LFS currently (aside from some major physics issues) are the tracks. Being so unrealistic in terms of corners and elevation changes is really pulling this game down in my book (racing fun wise)

This post is in no way intended to flame LFS in any shape of form not to promote rF. I've been playing LFS for a long time and plan on sticking with it much longer.
I just think that the devs need a few pointers from other "sims" in order to make LFS one of the best sims around.

Then it's a no brainer. G25 is your best bet.
Check Amazon for cheaper prices. If $300 is too much for you, DFP is the mext one down on my list (and what I use). Target.com had/has a nice sale on it for $79 but it does not have a clutch or an H gate.
Just keep in mind that the DFP, while bigger then the momo, is a small wheel. Much smaller then most real wheels.

One thing that works for me is streightening the wheel and floor it, even in corners. I know it sounds insane but it works (not sharp corners, obviously). I'm not much off fast people and always in top 5 in races.
So, the more you get the wheel streight, the more you can give it throttle. Just trust the F08's suspension and downforce.

As far as rotation, I always set it in profiler and LFS to what the car is. The 900 in both really doesn't work for me. I use 105% ff in profiler and between 15 and 25 ingame, depending on the car, set and track. Make sure your FF is strong enough that you feel it but not too strong so you have to wrestle with it. I kinda like lower FF for the F08 as it makes me more smooth.

I hope any of this helps.
Good Luck.

Lol, while we are off topic.
I actually enjoy racing on tracks that I have less experience at. It's fun, you learn the lines, the speed....it's a challenge! I also tend to be more relaxed when I'm not racing for that extra 0:00.10 on BL or AS Nat'l in the FRZ or FOX for example.

Lately for me, nothing beats LX4 or 6 on FE or SO...any of them.
There is something so rewarding racing against others on the track with equal experience in a twitchy yet fun car then "Pro's" doing hotlaps on Pub servers.
Maybe it's just me.

I really can't race AS nat'l anymore. Same goes for BL.
We have so many nice tracks, some extremely well suited for fo8 and BF1 yet people just go with the plain AS nat'l and FOX on BL.
Once we get some servers with WE, AS Grand Prix, KY etc you'll see a much bigger population in racers online.
Let's just hope it actually happens.

I have one suggestion.
Would it be possible to place the PIT info into the setup rather then keeping it global like it currently is? (Fuel, Tyre change, etc)
As many of us have specific sets for specific combos thus including this would allow us to use different PIT strategies with different sets as part of a specific set.

In terms of bugs, I'm one of those "lucky" people that never has issues with any of the test patches so

Thanks

You would instantly know if another peice of software or your OS is using bandwidth hence choking your system.
You would also know not to take the sharp corner in record time with 3 other racers during this period of time.

+1 as long as it's not sticking out like a sore thumb.

Well it seems that unplugging the wheel from the PC and reconnecting fixed it.
Thanks anyway.

Another quick one:
It seems that whatever I set wheel rotation to be in LFS, it's ignored.
I have to adjust it in Logitech Profiler to desired rotation.
Is there a way around that so it can be done in-game?

I can't find an option to recalibrate mine.
For some reason it's gotten off center a tad and I've searched high and low to recailbrate outside of LFS (to find center) but no go.
I'm using Logitech Profiler, if it makes any difference.

To me it's DFP since it's 900* and I can use it with my PS2.
Both have pros and cons but in the end, it comes down to taste and preference.
They are both good wheels and you won't go wrong buying either one.

On a straight I never move, I simply let off the gas once the person starts passing me. NOT before that as they might misjudge the distance and hit you.
If it's a corner, I either try to take it very wide and slow or go through it fast and give space after the curve (depending on the corner, car, track, etc.)
I will not go off-roading for anyone at any time for any reason.
IMO, without the replay, it's hard to judge who's at fault, if anyone.

Just don't worry about it too much....stuff like that happens.

I love both models and I do agree that we need more AWD cars.
I also never understood why we never got a "race ready" rb4 version to begin with.
As far as specs, I'd place it with the small GTR's so we have more then 1.5 cars in that class (any car that flips so easily doesn't count as a whole car )
Even if it doesn't fit into the class, it'd still be a blast, especially if it's able to use dirt tires.

Do a clean install and just transfer the skins and sets from the old one.
This should fix your troubles.

Quote from C40Z :

i love the skin

greetz caoz

*2560x1400

Bloody hell, amazing job man.
I greatly appreciate it.
It looks much better then I thought possible.

Once again, thanks alot!!!

I 100% agree and support this.
I'd rather see this being worked on then anything else.
With X came a lot of responsibility. To me, many races feel like I'm still on demo. People ram, cut, wreck, etc.
This would change things for the better real fast for people like us (clean racers). Something also needs to be done in terms of pitting IMO. I have nothing against mid race joiners, as long as they don't try to be heros. But people crashing 5 times a race then simply Shift+P and rinse and repeat. IMO, once you wreck your car, it's race over for you until the next one. Or at least it should be that way.

Quote from petrichor :

Yes and yes. I've done plenty of 60+ lap races on R2s in the BF1. The car runs out of fuel long before the tires give up the ghost. And yes I'm running competitive times.

Modern tires can be as hard as you want, but spec racing series seem to prefer softer tires because it requires more pitting that jumbles up the running order. Notice that the F1 cars haven't even been able to run the softest compound much this year because they are wearing too quickly.

You might choose to re-read my post and answer accordingly.
My questions were pertaining to real life and REAL R compound tyres.
Also, you need to take F1 out of the equation since F1 tyres are designed to behave a certain way, have an allowed amount of grip and wear at a certain pace. (anyone old enough to remember the amazingly psychotic tyres during late 80' early 90's )
DTM, LMS, etc do NOT have as strict regulations so the grip levels, wear, etc is up to todays compound technology.

So once again, have you ever driven a race ready car (any class) equiped with R compound tyres in REAL LIFE?
If you have, you will know how long tyres last. On many conditions that I have experienced, tyres are the last thing on my mind when on track in terms of wear and heat. Hence why we never bring more then one extra set to any event. (Money hasn't been an issue since we have one extremly generous rubber sponsor)

Your argument is about something being in the game but not used.
Well, would you prefer the devs to make a requirement to run downforce at a max at all times because it's there?

Once again, No to Q tyres and no to faster wear. If anything, slow it down a bit.

Would anyone be willing to render this baby for me?
I'd greatly appreciate it.
The skin is not your normal LFS skin as it doesn't carry any sponsors nor huge adds. Simple and I love it.....and I've put quite some time into it so it's my pride and joy.

Thanks to any volunteers.

I only have 2 questions for you.
Have you ever done some research on modern tyre technology?
Have you ever driven with R1 or 2 compound tyres?

IRL, tyres wear out much less then the currently do in LFS. Some cars do it somewhat realistically (FZR and FOX) but others are quite bad in comparison to real life.

So it's a no for the change for me.

Quote from DeadWolfBones :

In the nGTR mini-league I ran earlier this summer, there was only one race in which I wasn't able to do the entire distance (a 45min to 1hr race) on a single set of R2s. If you're burning through them too quickly, it's probably because of deficiencies in your setup or a lack of smoothness in your driving.

Which isn't to say that the tire model is perfect, because it isn't. It to say that, all things considered, it's pretty damn good.

I guess it's my fault then.
Being a mouse racer, smooth driving is a tad harder but not impossible.
Also, with the FZR, I never need a second set of tyres up to about 40-45 mins on AS gran prix. But some other cars really seems to eat the tyres away very fast.
I believe the tyre model is not evenly (correctly?) distributed between the softness/hardness levels and between cars.
So let me rephrase my statement.
The tyre model itself is quite nice. However, it needs tweaking in terms of wear/surface heat to make it correspond to real life tyre classes.

However, crashers and T1 morons are still my biggest gripe.
In demo we had intentional crashes but most racers still knew what to do in T1. S2 seems to be much worse in that department IMO.
I think I need to enter a few events to really get some nice racing going on.

Quote from SKaREO :

Here's my opinion:

1.is it worth it ?
no

2. i only have keyboard is it still worth it ?
no

3.will i get noob crashers in there ?
yes (maybe even more than you're used to now)

also there are fewer people and less servers, some fake cars that don't drive realistically ... but just look how awesome the tires are!

Man after trying to have some clean races last night I'm likely to agree with the above.
And the tyres really need some work. R2's don't fry after 10ish laps on a short circuit.
Ahhh, let the flaming begin.

Quote from Greboth :

I am not a sound engineer so this may be wrong but - Surely if a microphone is placed within the cabin of a car and the sound recorded (assuming not interfernce) then this would be the sound the driver would hear. So in the case of the bmw, for example, the driver would hear the gear whine, engine noise etc. Though it would obviously be quieter due to ear plugs and helmet.

Not quite, sadly.
Conventional mics obviously have limits in terms of what they can pick up range wise (I'm not talking about professional audio equipment here set up by a sound engineer) and the nature of sound itself makes it very hard to simulate it, especially when recorded using a singular input device (one mic inside the cabin)

Here's an example everyone should be familiar with.
Watch a vid on youtube or a home vid of your favorite rock/metal band during a performance (one you have seen live in concert) and compare it to the live thing.
On the single mic recording, you will hear only a very narrow range of tones and anything bellow or above that range turns into painful white noise.
A CD/Track recording is done with a mic and a channel for every sound source independently so this mostly fixes the issue (yet it's not even close to perfect). So the closest way to translate this into a car noise recording is to place independent mics into each of the important sound sources (exhaust, engine compartment, etc) and tune & mix them afterwards.

And that's just the input problem.
Output problem is just the same.
As sound is 3 dimensional, and your brain expects it as such, 2 or even 5 speakers ain't gonna cut it. In theory, you would need at least 6 speakers for EACH sound source to simulate this (front, back, left, right, top, bottom respectively).

Another problem is how your ears receive and you brain interprets noise.
Here's an every day example.
Why do you hold your phone to one preferred ear and why does it sound all weird when you hold it on the other?
Well, your ears are tuned differently. One is responsible for lower and the other for higher range noise. Receiving the "wrong" range for one particular ear makes the sound muffled and muddy.
You get the idea

As you can see, this is too much bloody work for a "simple" racing sim (or anything for that matter).
However, there's plenty ways to cheat. There's a great range that we as humans will deem acceptable and will have no problems interpreting and that can be simulated very well.
It's as simple as tweaking the sound to what it "might" sound in real life rather then outputting the mic recording itself.
This has been done very well in GT4 for example (GT4 hater, please don't flame).
What needs to be done is removing some of the mid-range noise and compressing highs and lows into the range. This allows your brain to hear the "cool" stuff such as the rumble and the pitch without making your ears bleed with white noise.

Hence why I'm up for LFS sound being suitable rather then youtube BMW correct.

Hope this explains it a bit better.
Sorry for the long post people.

Some of you need to realise that gear whine doesn't sound like that at all in real life. The problem is recording it using conventional recording methods (single mic picking up all interior noise). People that have been to F1 or LMS events know this best. An F1 car does NOT sound like it does on TV. It's not even close.

However, implementing the correct sound into a game is quite unrealistic considering how much time would have to be spent on it. Even then, there's only so much you can get out of stereo headphones or even 5.1 speakers.

My suggestion has always been to make the sounds suitable for the game rather then attempt to make it "realistic". This was accomplished for the most part in patch V but W came with the horrible new sound and to me, the game hasn't felt the same since. I just wish someone would figure out a way to add sound-mods to the new system. (Shift+A doesn't cut it IMO but it's a start)