Quote from JTbo :

I have always preferred sims with best physics instead of nice graphics. You can make pretty nice graphics with dx8 too

But wouldn't mind dynamic realtime headlight projection of course, however I'm afraid this would have quite high impact on speed, think about 48 cars with 2 or more lights being rendered realtime :drunk:

I agree with you and other "physics" advocates but my qualm is this:
Does there have to be a choice between the two?

My point is not to reduce, eliminate or set aside LFS's effort for perfected real life physics modeling for the sake of improved 21 century graphics (most of us are not asking for much really, just something that would fit the year, or maybe even the decade we currently live in).

All I want to see is a few hours here and there spent on making the whole package fit; this must include sound and look, IMO.

I realize that SCAVIER is itching to get the Alpha tag off of LFS, hence why the AI is currently being worked on.
My stand, however, is that regardless of "Completed" tag, LFS's following will not change.
It won't become more popular or mainstream and thus should not generate more income. And while many of us are happy and proud at SCAVIER's choice of leaving LFS a niche product, pride doesn't pay bills.

Looks is what sells many computer games today. With this in mind, LFS has a tremendous potential of "luring" so many "casual" gamers (customers) into the world of a legit SIMs thus becoming legendary by simply improving on looks and content while keeping up the realistic qualities we love it for.
Imagine what the disgust of the general public towards arcade race games could do to the SIM world. Imagine what it would be like if the standard for any race game would be LFS style physics, before simply making it purrty. Sadly, the general population is unwilling to give titles such as LFS a chance as things stand.

Also keep in mind that the majority of people who spend money on games are people who have decent machines that have no issues handling higher end graphical elements.
I'm not preaching to leave users with lower end equipment out of the picture. As most games have become quite scalable these days, so should LFS.

I guess I'm a dreamer who wishes for LFS to live up to it's potential.
I'm not sure that can happen as things currently are.

Quote from JO53PHS :

As he said ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I think there will be a cockpit view for GT5, looking at the screenshots its a good one at that (in my opinion).

http://uk.media.ps3.ign.com/media/85...g_4801523.html

Does Gran Turismo use physics and stuff like that and is the physics anywhere near as real as LFS?

Quote from UncleBenny :

nope

That doesn't mean it won't improve over time.

Ah and that screenshot.
Now who could possibly not wish for LFS to look even remotly like that GT5 screnshot?!
Yes, physics matter, but only to a certain extent.
It's the package that keep s people playing for a long time. It's the fun part of racing. Immersion. Whatever you wanna call it.

LFS has been pretty good in the "package" department over the last few years. However, it's been a very long time sinec any of you have seen any changes worth mentioning that would expand on that.
There are some serious physics bugs still persistant, audio is....do I need to tell you?!
Vissually, LFS looks good...if today was 1996. Yes it's sufficient for it's purpose. But if sufficient for it's purpose is all we ask of, let's remove all models, all skins, all high res textures and scenery.
7 poly boxes are more then enough to get the core out of LFS.

Let's also remove all tracks besides BL, as the track enviroment really shouldn't matter...core physics racing and all.

Get real people and beg that Scawen doesn't share your opinion of what's pretty. I don't want to see LFS die just yet.

Last edited by gohfeld23, Fri 30 Nov 2007, 00:51.

Call me lazy but I have my DFP set at 720 LFS+Wingman and Wheel Comp to 1.00.

I'm also one of those nut-jobs that have FFB in Wingman set to 48% and 100% in LFS.
Honestly it feels much better in road cars, however GTR's suffer (I dont spend enough time racing GTR to care at the moment).

I used to set my lock coresponding to the vehicle as I can only race if my wheel and ingame wheel are 1:1.
720 + 1.00 WC does this for me, although it does feel a bit different.

I'll have to mess a bit with Parallel Steer as I never really payed too much attention to it.

If I have a decent day, nothing kills my concentration and I seem to require less of it to be steady.

However, my GF/fiance has fudged up more then one race for me with her touchy/feely/kissing while I race stuff.

While she's correct that it's just a SIM, it's bloddy LFS woman!
Let the man be. :P

Cruise used to be fun back in the day of cops and robbers as chases can be a blast.
Sadly nowdays, you get fined or even kicked for outrunning the cops.

Ehhhh.....it's become too serious and quite rude.

If all is empty, I'll hotlap or race AI as cruise has really turend into a "l33t" chatroom.

Maybe we are not watching the same vid but isn't driver A the black hatchback (XFG) and driver B the sedan (XRG)?

If this is the case, XFG's bumper was infront of the XRG, however the entry to the chicane is a left.
So, XFG on the right, overtaking by a tad.
XRG on the inside.

IMO, XFG, while only having a bit overtake, took the chance to cut into the XRG bumping him just a bit.
Lag took care of the rest.
While some might call lag accidents like this "racing accident" ot no fault, we are all fully aware of the contact issues and as such, this IMO is A's fault.
Agreed, B could have layed off a bit and let him trough but what are the chances of that happening on a pub server?

We allready have a boatload of high speed tracks with long straights and low difficulty.
How would this add to the experience?

If anything, we need a bit more realisticly technical tracks with short or no straights and chicanes that do their job.
We need more frequent elevation changes (more drastic & realistic ones) and off chamber turns.

Just IMO

Quote from shiny_red_cobra :

What? The front bumper of car B was beside the front wheel of car A. That's not sufficient overlap?

When did front bumper become sufficient overlap?!

I still say hatchback got too greedy. Everything has to go extremely perfect to do a side by side in that chicane with 2 different types of car.

Driver A IMO.
Insuficient overlap into a left hander (well chicane but it starts with a left).

While FF and FR cars behave very differently as FR need a bit more space in corners, FF drivers completey ignore this for some reason.
I believe this is the main cause of this and many other incidents.

Gears can be replaced.
Either find suitable gears or a parts DFP on ebay to hold you over till the G25.
Sorry to hear that the wheel is kapput.

The clicking is the hardware locking of the mechanicals inside.
DFP has an auto option for 360* (or was it 2XX not sure) thats toggled by pressing two buttons for a short period of time.
Check the manual to see what needs to be pressed and what blinking lights mean (there is an explanation for the right, left and both)

It seems your wheels is not broken, you just eneabled a shortcut option.
I did the same thing when I first got the DFP but since it's been a while since then, I don't remeber all the details to solve it.
Once ahain, manual should help in this case.

Good Luck

A mod should really rename this thread.
Subscribe FTW :P

Quote from Riders Motion :

Might be a 5 minutes job, but it does look nicer than your 1 hour 'artwork'

Dude you just made coffee shoot out of my nose with that one :clapclap:

I can't believe I agree with 3 people that seem to be disagreeing but here we go.

Yes LFS graphics AND SOUND are adeqate at best.
They won't make your eyes and ears bleed too much but you won't be impressed the slightest bit.

And it's sadly true that LFS looks by far the best out of all available legit sims today....but that really isn't saying much.

The package is important. It's what makes it complete.
Amazing graphics alone don't cut it. Neither do physics and sound alone.
But what if we could all stop denying that we want all of it.

Now for the dreamers amongs us.
Just imagine for a second, a game with the (completed) physics of LFS, the look and graphics of GT5 and a kick ass sound engine.
Well, some might argue that that's S3. Most likely.
But at the pace of current development, by then other games will plug in into the back of a bloody skulls or come compiled for our home holosuites.

LFS is great in many departments; graphics and sound ain't two of them.

*please no ignorant "I'd rather have LFS them Bloom-land!" There are a lot of shades between black and white.

LFS feels like a good old lether glove.

Yes it doesn't look as shiny as the new ones, yes you are so used to it, it's getting a bit overused, yes it's getting ugly fast...but MAN it fits!

I've tried and still play other "sims".
All is nice and dandy untill I come back and jump into an LX.
No fuss, no long loading screens, no frustration with wheel setup, just pure fun and control.

I guess we all love, hate and love to hate LFS.

BTW OP, great post.
Speaking of which, why is your wheel in bits?

I've noticed it too after the last sound patch and had to tweak it extensivly just to avoid ear pain (I use headphones).

Not sure what it is nor why it's there but I sure wasn't there before the sound "update".

Quote from Lible :

Sorry to brign this back

http://www.soov.ee/soov-images/0710/26/1729427.lview.JPEG

Ah that just warms my heart.

As for LX8, while it would be fun to have but id much rather prefer track editions of Lx4 and 6.
Im also one of those people that don't see it necessary to have a class match for every car. FOX and BF1 seem to be doing just fine on their own.

One thing that would have to be improved on is lateral tyre grip and slow speed grip before a bigger monster then the lx6 is included.
Otherwise it would be too unrealistic in terms of behavior.

Passangers are great for learning LX.
While adding weight can help with grip, adding another person balances the LX6 very nicely without much need for thinkering.
This is how I learned to control and tame the beast.
When you are ready, you take the passanger out.

Instead of taking them out, I'd suggest to add a command or script for High 5's when you do something good/dangerous/win, etc
Nothing beats a high 5 from a passanger

Freedom, as is Democracy, is overrated.
I'd pay another $50 for Devs sanctioning cruise servers and limit ovals and drift.

It's a bloody shame that all these LFS fanboys will fight anyone who mentions rF and other sims, yet the majority doesn't even use LFS for what makes it so perfect.
When was the last time some of you raced LX, RAC or FZ5 online without that being a bloody cruise or drift server? How about a race that was more the 10 laps?

The beauty of LFS to me is not in the FOX or GTR hotlapping on AS or BL.
You can do that in GT4.

The main reason why I like CTRA is the fact that it's gotten people to race on different tracks with non-mainstream cars. Something more servers should look into.

As far as inSim; it's a good way if allowing 3rd party mods to interact with LFS.
It's the software on the other side that's making inSIM a Cruise tool, not inSIM itself.

Quote from BlueFlame :

I would prefer LX4 and LX6 racing, rather than GTR's and TBO's, I just don't know about the balance... Maybe the GTR's should carry a compulsory intake restriction and some balast... there's no way it can be safe racing if the GTR's lap you within 5 laps...

Fun first, safety second
This is bound to be a blast IMO...guess we'll see in December.

Talk about a wolf in sheeps clothes.
+ONE indeed.

Quote from tristancliffe :

Where'd all the colour, vibrancy and realism gone? Might as well just turn down the saturation in control panel. Doesn't look gritty to me either, but that might be due to the tiny video (the screenshot doesn't look gritty either. Just looks like hi-res textures and decent AA/AF).

This is obviously a matter of opinion so I'm not arguing by any means.
To me LFS is a bit too vibrant and too colorful compared to what RL looks like, so the vid is really something that helps in that department.

As none of us neither see things the same way nor have exactly matching screens, this is a simple matter of prefference.

As I can't and/or dont wish to change any settings on my monitor (it's calibrated on a weekly basis as I use it as a backup for image editing and desing [my bread and butter]) a pixel shader or tweaked textures are my cup of tea.
One benefit with a pixel shader over textures is the fact that not only does the look of the track change, but everything in the game including cars and reflections.

Quote from Loadus :

...

That vid looks great IMO.
More realistic then the current look, while keeping the crisp look of LFS.

What's the progress on a test release?
I'd love to see what it looks like first hand.

Since I can't catch the LX racing on volanda (sp?) as weekends are the only days I have time, the GFC LX even is the best I can do right now.

Change one of the days to a Saturday or sunday and I'm in as a regular.

My job is very time consuming and demanding so I'm lucky if I can get 2 hours of racing late at night during the whole work week.

Even though most of you know this already, I'm going to repeat what Scaven said/wrote.
AI is being worked on not entirely for the sake of AI but for the Alpha status of LFS.
In order to remove the Alpha tag, AI, amongst some other things, have to be finished to a certain point.

Once AI is out of the way, we are golden as then the team can work towards finalising S2 in terms of tyres, physics, graphics, etc.

But AI needs to be done, regardless of the fact that many of us don't have a need for it.

As this is a paying game/sim, certain rules and general guidelines apply.
Finishing AI will allow LFS to more forward without looking like a half assed project (which it certainly isn't to most of us even now).