Sure, most of the formula cars and many race sports cars have the sequential manual gearboxes. Some of those have an automatic throttle cut for shifting. For upshifts, many times the clutch is not even used. For downshifts it typically is used with the sports cars.

Having manual blips and lifts is as realistic as it gets, especially when you are talking about sports cars. For the formula cars, it was not that many years ago when the automatic engine controls did not exist and it was all manual. So, the only cars in LFS where the automatic blip is somewhat realistic is for the formula cars. I think you will find that even if you have manual lift for upshift turned on, you don't need to bother doing it for the formual cars. They shift quick enough that you don't spike RPM's anyway. I do a manual blip for downshifting. It gives you more control and helps to keep you from locking the drive wheels. This gives you more control for hard braking.

Quote from mantis9 :

Nice pics Hallen! Not sure who the guy in the last one is though

Thanks for the comments. For those of you who don't really know, the last picture is of Andy Wallace. At this race he was driving the Dyson team P1 car. Almost took the win, but the car ran out of gas on the second to last lap. DOH!

That was one of the very cool things about this race. They had an autograph session before the race. I met Andy, James Weaver, JJ Lehto, Ron Fellows, Johnny O'Connel, Wolf Henzler, Robin Liddel, and a bunch more drivers. It was a blast. I have cool autographed posters from all of them.

My last event was the American LeMans Series in Portland, Oregon. Had the RV setup right by the track.

These are big pictures so 56k people, beware.

With so many possibilities to paint realy cool and even artistic stuff on these cars, why would people want to go the sleazy easy route? Ah well, such is life. (And no, I do not find nudity offensive. There is just the right time and place for such things.)

Also, most important... get the tires up to temp before pushing the car. Get the setups linked above. They are very good. I use them and I do respectible times with most of the cars (1:26.4x Blackwood GTT)

Use the F9 key to see the tire temps. The outer tred shows the surface temp. The inner part of the tire shows the internal temp. Optimally, you want to see a nice solid green. If you see red, the tire will be very slippery. If it is blue, the tire is cold and won't have a lot of grip.
Make a couple of easy laps first and get your tire temp up. Then start pushing a bit. I think you will find that there is more grip there than you think.
Also, don't just pound the gas to the floor when exiting the corner with the GTT. It will spin the wheels and you will spin. Ease into the gas. You will get the feel for it and you wil be able to push it harder.

Please stop the madness; don't you see what that evil beer can do to you


I really like that little two step dance thing the girl behind him is doing

Well, I know this leaves a LOT to be desired, but it is my first ever render. Thanks for the tips posted so far. This has a lot of work left to do, but I was so happy to get anything even close that I had to post it

Quote from operator0 :

Ask and you shall receive . http://www.lfsforum.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=681

Finally got a chance to watch the race. Great Stuff! You two had a heck of a good battle there. Bet you were sweating a bit after that one
Too bad that back marker got in your way, would have been a bit closer at the end. But them's the breaks.

You can even assigne one button as the "Shift" button and get a whole set of other shifted buttons to use. I do this for my pit arrow keys, they are the shifted directional buttons that I normally use for the look functions.

Quote from Gimpster :

The basic point is this, once someone is in the draft and pulls out to pass its already too late to block. I will make multiple line adjustments on a straight for one reason only, to break or prevent a draft. Once a draft has been caught its already too late to block safely. If someong intends to pass there really is nothing you can safely do to prevent it. Defensive driving and blocking are two different things and need to be addressed seperatly in my opinion.

Absolutely.

You may be slow, or dyslexic. Check out your sig...

Are you using the latest version of the Logitech profiler? I have not trouble with mine in what ever number of degree mode I want to set using the profiler. I have to fight sometimes when switching games for the profiler to realize that a new config should be used, but I never have on-center problems.Does your wheel go through the full cycles of lock to lock in 900° mode and in the limited ° mode when you start up the computer or plug in the controller?

One thing I notice when I installed a second controll was that all the buttons and controls on my wheel got renumbered. Something silly like unplugging one controller and letting it remove itself and then plugging it back in might rearange the assignments so that you do see the slide. Not much of an idea, but worth a shot.

Also, did the clutch come with a special driver? I don't think they do if you don't have the HDUSB system. I am assuming that Windows sees the controller and that you can configure it via the Control panel.

Let me know how it goes, I just ordered the same sytem this week.

If someone takes a defensive line, that is fine. If someone does an inside out reverse on me and repassess me, wow, great move man! But if someone weaves in front of me, especially after I have caught a draft and have momentum, well once they will get away with, but more than that and they are going to get punted. Just a little nudge to destablize them in a turn with the intent to not wreck him or me. I don't like blocking especially if we are driving the same car. If we are in the same car, and I am consitently faster, then it is my responsibility to try and get past cleanly. If the other driver is erratic and intentionally blocking, well then they have shown that they have no regard for me or clean racing.

Now, having said all that, I have never actually done it. I said it to prove a point. But, if blocking does happen, I guarantee you it will happen. Maybe not by me, but someone will do it. That is why leagues usually have some type of policy on blocking to keep the mayham down to the minimum.

Driving different car types things get more complicated. For example, LX6 vs the FZ50. The LX6 will be faster in the corners and the FZ will be faster on the straights. This leads to the LX6 guy getting passed on all long straights, and the FZ driver getting passed in the corners. Lap after lap. The FZ will slow the LX6 down a lot, but the LX6 does not really slow the FZ down because it is pretty easy to pass with power on straights. It will get pretty frustrating, but as long as the drivers are not blocking... that's racing.
Pro leagues are a different thing. They race for real, real money, real life stuff. Blocking is dangerous and so is getting punted. If the league wants to draw a bigger, more ignorant croud, then they "let" drivers get away with more bumping and rubbing than really needs to be there. I would much prefer to watch a hard fought battle over several laps where both drivers never tough each other, but somehow, a pass is made. Sure, the leading driver will take a defensive line, but blocking is different.

heheheheh very funny ideas here guys.illepall But ya know that the more stuff they try and stuff into the program, the less stuff will be spot on perfect. Nothing would ever really get fully finished.

While we are dreaming though, I throw my vote in for LMP 1 & 2 prototypes

Quote from bobvanvliet :

Has this ever been mentioned on RSC? Probably, right?

Anyhoo, people already use artificial rolling starts in for example the endurance league, so why not have support standard in LFS?

I'm thinking the effort outweighs the bennefit... for now anyway.
I think most people would agree that it would be a cool and much appreciated improvement.
Oh, yeah, it has been mentioned on RSC

Quote from mrfell :

if there comes a time when you see a smidgen of a chance, you'll go for it!! And i reckon that goes for all drivers with a competitve racing streak in them!!!

And that is where I disagree. "A smidgen of a chance" is not a "good chance". It is a banzia maneuver if it is a smidgen of a chance and more often than not, will cause a T1 pileup. If there is a good chance that you can pull it off, then go for it. It has nothing to do with being competitive, it has to do with good judgment. If I wreck in turn 1, I have no chance to win the race. If I choose not to make a risky lunge for a pass on turn 1 and ride it out, then I still have a chance to win. But nothing risked nothing gained… and since you are not risking life, limb, property, or lawsuits, I guess people will continue to use ultra risky moves.



I tend to think more about longer races and league races when talking about this. If you are talking about a 5 lapper on AS1, well, that race could be won on turn 1.

It is a pointless question that is self directed. A person will answer with what they are used to. There is no preference.

Me, I prefer Knots.

However, looking at a KPH analog speedometer, there are too many numbers on there and it is hard to read. For the digital dispay, the numbers jump around too much (Just in reference to LFS and not RL).

Quote from operator0 :

So, it's not black and white.

Absolutely.

The overtaking move that you were talking about, sure that is ligitimate. It may make me mad, but that's racing. You do it cleanly and under control and clearly take the position with time to spare, then go for it. I will see you and I will try to pinch you, but I won't ram you (unless I goof).
I was mostly referring to people who try and force their way past when they see just a hint of daylight. They ignore what is happening with the other cars in front and they generally are carrying too much speed.

Those incedents that you talk about are going to happen, unfortunately. It is frustrating. Like I said before though, don't confuse fault with responsibility. The other driver has a responsibility too. Drive consistently, know the track, don't cut people off, don't make stupid moves. There are just a lot of people out there right now who don't take the time to learn the car or the track off line and they are going to be very unpredictable. Race em' and hope for the best.

Quote from tristancliffe :

Cars never get towed back to the pits whilst the race is in progress. They get towed out of the way, then at the END of the race, they get towed back, usually along the track.

True, but not the case for cars stuck in the sand. The sand is usually in a place where cars often go off. This makes the stuck car a hazard. Generally those cars are towed out of the sand. For sports cars, it is very common that they can restart and re-enter the race. Sure, they have lost laps, but they are not out of the event.
Bottom line, we do this for fun, and we do it for the competition. This is NOT real world stuff. If I join a server to race a 40, 50, or more lap race, and on lap 15, I get pushed into the sand by another car, well too bad for me. My fun is over. I have no chance at all in the race now. I will not pass anybody. I have to jump to the pits, lose all my laps and start over. I think the "tow" option would be nice in this case. I have as of yet never damaged a car so much that I could not drive to the pits. I don't have to lose all my laps. Why is it then that a simple slip into the sand ends my day? The sand forces you to jump to the pits. Having an option that disallows this is OK, but the tow option should be available too. Maybe it is enabled as a super slow reset that puts your car back on the the edge of the track when no other trafic is in the area (like GPL). The reset process could take a minute or more to do.
You don't want to make this sim more frustrating than fun. And this is not like just joining up on some random server and racing. What I am talking about is a organized league race when you have dedicated time and hours of practice to the competition. Then bam, you are screwed. That is a very disheartening occurance and one that is NOT fun. This is an online racing simulator, but guys get real; it is simply entertainment. Being stuck in the sand is not entertainment. Nobody complained about the sand is S1 when all the cars could get out of it. Maybe that is the solution too. Just let all the cars drive out of the sand and we are fixed.

I think one of the points here is that it is very unlikely that you can drive and brake on the limit going into turn one unless you are in front. Especially for large grids, there is no way to know what your speed will be and where the correct brake point will be. Basically, it is infinitely variable. That is why you leave yourself a bit of extra room. Plus, the accordian affect will happen and the field will back up, it is unavoidable. This will further modify the braking point.

Nothing is more annoying than having avoided ramming the guy in front of you who seemed to brake early, but really wasn't because he had to avoid the guy in front of him. Then, starting to make your turn into the apex, there is some bonzia driver diving in thinking to take advantage of the "opening". I have to move to the outside of the corner to insure I don't get wrecked because bonzia dude is carrying too much speed. The bonzia dude is all proud of himself for making a clean pass on turn one, when in actuallity his "skillful" driving is only in his head. The truth is, I was the one who avoided the accident that was going to be caused by bonzia dude by giving the room to allow him to get the car back under control. And all of this after I had to drive cautiously to avoid the inevitable accordian affect going into turn one. I have had this happen time and again. I usually gain the positions back a few laps later, but it is still annoying.

I have made clean passes on turn one plenty of times, but I did not have to drive on the edge to do it, and I did not have to force my way through. I keep the car under control, going slower than I normally would for that corner, and wouldn't you know it, somebody will overshoot the apex because they tried to push too hard, and I am in.

True, it is not always your fault when you hit somebody in front of you. That does not change the fact that it is the following driver's responsibility to avoid hitting the car in front. You seem to be confusing fault with responsibility, they are two different things. Plus, the driver in front has the right to the corner. You can't dive in and block the apex if there is no reasonable chance of the driver in front seeing the move or being able to modify his line enough to avoid you. The car in front should not have to try and avoid you when you are making a passing manuever unless you are clearly along side the other car.

Last edited by Hallen, Wed 17 Aug 2005, 05:25.

Technically, a lot of cars have the speed sensor mounted to the differential. If it measured pulses off of one ring gear or the other it would be possible to spin one tire and still not see the speed spike on the speedometer.

Just adding fuel to the fire. :tempted:

There are some very interesting points in this discussion.

1) I agree that the slow speed slides that never stop are... odd, to say the least. I think this is a problem in the sim engine, but who knows what right now. I do think that it has always been this way. I have never driven a race car and I know you can't feel the g's, so I could be wrong about this. I think this issue does happen with all the cars too, not just the ones in question here; just not as bad.

2) Bob's easy race sets are simply wonderful. I did find the FZ50 to still be too oversteery in certain situations. Maybe the update he just did fixed it. I found the set that I did better (for me), but I would really like to try the new set. The RAC is outstanding with Bob's easy race set. It is really fun to drive. It is still difficult to drive fast, but that is as it should be.

Getting rid of the throttle off dramatic oversteer tendency is critical for driveability of these mid/rear engine cars or the rear weight balanced cars. With the way the back end can be so hard to recover once a slide starts, it is important to keep this under control. I was able to drive the LX4 and LX6 relatively well in S1, but it took a good set that behaved more like a front wheel drive car than a rear wheel drive car. You still had to be ultra careful not to spin wheels while turning though.

Turn on the light switched, maybe it is a switched outlet???

The connector on the back can be a pain to get in there right because of the angle. Other than that, you must have a broken wire in the power cord. Can you check with a volt meter to see if you are getting power out of it (do not use your tongue). If it ain't that, then see about returning it for a replacement.

Funny, I have been trying to convince a few more friends to try LFS. I found myself one day describing one lap on Westhill to them, just like you did (they were somewhat amazed that I knew the track that well). It sounded very much like your story. I loved it. I could picture every corner in my head, I felt the anticipation and the dread of going as fast as possible while still keeping the greasy side down. I realized that I fight the same things you do while running that course. It is exhilarating.
One thing I would have mentioned is the dreaded sand trap on turn 8. That off camber turn and the speed you carry puts that sand trap into play every single lap.



Well done.

I am disappointed with some of the comments in these posts. It is fine to disagree and state your point, but most of the arguments above ignore simple facts and in some cases, are downright rude.

It is not a bad idea. It is an idea that has merrits and detractors. Just stating it is a bad idea only proves you have not thought about it.

If you think it would take too much time, or would be distracting... then don't use the feature. It would not be required. Plus, it could be limited to offline racing only.

The "it is not in a real car" argument cannot be rebutted directly because it is a narrow view that ignores all the rest of the things we have that are not in a real car. It does not address the particular issue at hand (see below). However, indirectly, you can look at it as just the same as having a driving instructor with you in the car as you learn the track... something that is extremely common in a real car on a real track.
The "it is not in a real car" argument is valid if backed up with a valid argument. It is not a point unto itself. I think this argument could be applied to the racing line suggestion above. However, this is still an area of opinion that has varies from person to person. I would see the racing line graphic as being too much like a game, and not enough like a simulator. Plus, there would be other, more realistic ways of accomplishing the same thing.

There are so many things in LFS now that you don't have in a real car, it is hard to justify any argument based on that assumption alone. For example, do you have text pop up on your windscreen that says "Sorry, my fault" when someone bumps you on a real race track? In a real car, you can't communicate with other drivers at all until after the race. (Other than throwing them the finger).