The online racing simulator
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Hallen
S3 licensed
Quote from danowat :Trouble is with the vette, and pretty much every other "yank-tank" is the lack of finesse and general "barn-door" engineering that is employed.

The american philosophy is, chuck a huge engine in, and thats that, sod the handling.

Its certainly better than it used to be, heck the new vette can actually go round corners

Dan,

Tsk Tsk, Although I agree with you to a degree, I am not a fan of American big iron, I would disagree about the Vette. It is a sports car... it just happens to have a big engine too. The thing turns like it is on rails... yes, it is an old cliche' but it is true. The brakes are outstanding, the steering is precise. Sure, it pushes (understeers) a bit like all street cars, but that can be fixed easily. It is a car that can be turned into a race car with just a roll cage and gutting of the interior.

Why do you think there are so many out there? It looks great, it is quick, and the price is not outrageous. Normal people can own them.

The fit and finish of the interior has always been sub-standard, and it is noisy, but it goes like the proverbial bat out of hell.

It is just a slightly different philosophy: Instead of super high reving, small turbocharged engines, the Vette uses a big engine with massive torque running at (relatively) lower RPMs. I drive a BMW, the power does not really kick in until you are over 3000 RPM. In the Vette, you get a real, visceral kick in the ass as soon as you romp on the loud pedal. It is very satisfying. When the only fun a lot of Americans can experience is their daily fling up the on-ramp to the slow moving freeway, then that little kick in the ass is really worth it.

The Z06 is pretty much a inexpensive super car. It is that good.

Back on-topic: I don't really feel as much of a need for real cars in LFS as I used to. I would much more prefer a wider variety of race cars, like LMP1 & LMP2 prototypes. Widen the classes a bit with more example cars, and keep them competitive. That will lead to the best overall racing. The FZ50 is basically a Porsche knock-off, and I would like to see something like a BMW knock-off, but I don't need the real car design.
Hallen
S3 licensed
http://www.speedarena.com/gallery/gallery.html

I really like this site. It covers SPEED World Challenge, ALMS, and a lot of other series. Very good stuff.
Hallen
S3 licensed
Quote from tailing :The way I see it hotlapping itself isn't very realistic so defining what is realistic behaviour when hotlapping is kinda a moot point.
If I happened to be in a "hotlapping" situation in real life I'm pretty certain there would be nothing stopping me from driving backwards or doing burnouts or whatever.
I dunno, I don't feel that strongly either way but find some of these discussions about what is and isn't realistic in a computer game a bit strange.

Exactly!

A simulator recreates the rules of physics for a certain purpose. It does not recreate the rules of a track or common sense. As little as possible is scripted.

It may not be realistic BEHAVIOR by the drivers, but it is perfectly realistic and understandable. But I would also argue that our behavior in the sim will vary greatly with our behavior in the real world... and that is part of the beauty of a sim. One of the beauties of using a Sim is the ability to repetitively do something in a short period of time, and that is what happens with hotlaps, they are getting to the meat of the problem.

I also have a problem with certain behaviors in the sim, but there is not much you can do about it.
A case in point of the behavior thing: The last chicane on KY GP Long is usually cut at about 120mph in the XRR hotlaps slamming over the curb and the speed bumps. No driver in his right mind would attempt that more than once in the real world.
Hallen
S3 licensed
Quote from Becky Rose :Pit Spotter! Racing online without it should be penalised by castration !
http://www.kegetys.net/lfs/

Ouch Easy for YOU to say!

The Ghost car patch was OK, it is well done, but I almost never use it.

The Pit spotter voice comes straight out of NASCAR 2003 season. I wouldn't doubt there are individual sound or ogg files with the voice in it for each statement. Just record your own and replace them.

I may have to give some of these others a try too
Hallen
S3 licensed
I also found that running with higher pressures on the R2's with the XRR will make the tires last without overheating for the entire tread life of the tire. That really did not happen before patch R (now T). You could only run a couple of laps with R2's before they overheated. You pretty much had to run R3's for races of any length at all.

I also like the fact that if you run tires under-pressure, which was the norm before, you can really feel the difference in how the car responds. Low pressures lead to a mushy feeling where higher (closer to realistic) pressures make the car feel more crisp and you don't lose as much grip as you used to. The tires do take a while to come up to temperature, but they eventually do.

I really wonder about the usefulness of R4 tires right now for any car. They are too hard, they don't take heat well and they don't stick. It is nice now that the R2's are a viable option for races as opposed to just being used for hotlaps.
Hallen
S3 licensed
I always say to practice offline, at least until you can find your way around a track and the basic braking points with a particular car. You don't have to be competitive on that track to go on line, but you should at least be familiar with it. That said, anybody is welcome online. I find that if somebody goofs, they say they are sorry, and that they are just learning, then I am a lot more patient with them and am happy to try and help.

Use the mirrors and work hard on staying consistent.

I advocate making small tweaks on your own sets. I have learned a lot about setups in the last few years. I have researched online and learned about grip, damper settings, toe-in, camber, etc. It is fun to read about all these things on real race, and race driving web sites. LFS does a good job in general of modeling these settings and it is fun to see how the car reacts to the different changes.

The AI can be good when trying to learn alternate lines. They also help you concentrate on where you are on the track and not just following other cars... usually right off the track. I sometimes race them and try NOT to pass them. Just follow along and learn how to see my brake points and turn in points with them in the way. It is good training for real races.
Hallen
S3 licensed
The Original LFS League is well run with great events. The league is well attended and you will find people at your skill level to race with. They don't have a season going right now, but it should not be too long before they do.
Hallen
S3 licensed
FWIW
Street cars now have four basic transmission types.

Automatic
Multiple internal clutch packs and usually containing some form of planetary gear system. The driver does not need to shift at all. Some automatics come with an option for the driver to select gears manually, but they are still an automatic transmission. The shifts can be slow compared to a manual or SMG.

Manual
The driver operates a clutch and gear shift lever. The gear shifting is normally in the standard H pattern.

Sequential manual gearbox
This gearbox is basically the same as a manual transmission, but some mechanism, usually hydraulic or electrical, operates the clutch for the driver. The drive selects gears. The driver cannot skip gears, like going from 2nd to 4th. The shifting sequence is like what a motorcycle uses. The shifter can be a stick (common in sports cars and rally cars), or paddles. In street cars, this type of system can be setup to be completely automatic too where the driver does not select gears at all. But the system still has just one clutch that is external to the gearbox. A good example of this is the BMW SMG (sequential manual gearbox) found mostly in the M3. I don't know for a fact, but I believe this is the basic type of gearbox found in an F1 car.

Continuous Variable
This has long been a theory in transmissions but is just now starting to see use in street cars. Audi is the first in the modern era (that I have heard of) that uses this type of gearbox. There are no real shifts in this system. It continuously varies the gear ratio based on the car speed and engine load. It can be setup to be totally smooth where no shift type hesitations can be felt. The driver can select "gears", but this just tells the transmission where to go to. I believe the Audi has been setup to actually give a bit of a hesitation so the driver can feel the shift and know it has been done.
Hallen
S3 licensed
Quote from ArosaMike :I'll tell you what he's like for real a week on Monday if you want :P I'm racing him (no joke!)

Yeah, let us know. Out Karting with him and his brother?

But I bet he will be standoff-ish. He has been treated very poorly by the media for his entire professional career. He has had major medical problems that almost killed him. He is now inundated with attention and I think he is trying to learn how to adjust. I don't think he minds doing the interviews and all that, but I think he does not like all the attention when he is just trying to find his way to the bathroom.

The squeeky clean image of F1 is just a sham. There is a difference between acting sophisticated and really being that way. They put on a good show on TV and I do honestly beleive that a lot of the drivers and crews like each other and respect each other. But, just because you use nice four sylible words or four letter words to bitchslap somebody, it is still a bitchslap. Jenson Button is an expert at the art of saying nice words whilst all the while implying that somebody else is a butthole. Scott just needs to learn how to play the game and focus his aggression where it will help him not hurt him.
AI with BF1 High speed wheel jitter
Hallen
S3 licensed
It seems when the AI cars get above about 160mph, they have problems. The steering wheel starts oscillating back and forth at a progressively faster rate. They end up doing at least 90° right and left until they slow down. If you look at the cars from above, it looks like they are all trying to warm their tires at 160mph.illepall

I am using the AS National track.
Hallen
S3 licensed
They know we are going to skin the car any way we want. They gave us the CMX viewer and the skin maps didn't they?
It is no disrespect to BMW Sauber to skin the car as a McLaren or Renault if you want. This is just the game and it would get boring if all the cars always had the same skins on them.
And as far as the ads around the tracks go... no problem. Ignore them or enjoy them, or change them, no big deal either way. The racing is what is important.
I am happy that we have this car and some support from actual racing teams. It is just plain too cool
Hallen
S3 licensed
Quote from jayhawk :I will probably get tomato(e)s thrown at me, but the BF1 is FAR easier to drive than the F08. Went ten laps around BLackwood and only spun out once. With the F08 I would spin out ten times in one lap!

If you like open wheel cars, then you HAVE to go back and drive the FV8 now. It is a dream too. Very much easier to drive, sticks much better, and feels a lot like the FOX did before. It is very fun now. You still have to be careful with the throttle, but it is not nearly like it was before.

The BF1 is simply insane. I couldn't keep up with the car. But, after 30 or so laps at AS GT, I was feeling pretty good with it. To drive this car well, will take a lot of work. But the sheer gut wrenching, reaction time testing thrill of it for now is good enough. What a blast.
Hallen
S3 licensed
Quote from Hoellsen :Hm, no, not that I know off. Basic concept: The Intel Racing Tour uses a version of LFS for offline open-to-everyone events in which people can qualify for a grand finale. In that finale the qualified drivers race for a BMW M6 given as prize.

Thanks for the overview

Does it actually mention LFS? I read through it and used a translator, but did not see those kinds of words.
Hallen
S3 licensed
Quote from th84 :I will have to respectfully disagree!!

lol, and so would I. Speed made a mistake with his comment to DC. Forget about it. Just because he says the gloves are off, does not mean he is going to go out and punt DC. It means that the rose tinted glasses are off and he realizes that F1 is just as full of wankers and backstabbers as any other human endeavour. DC is somebody to look up to, in some ways. But F1 is about winning, not being the nice guy. DC knows that and so does Scott now.

And what is this crap about the telemetry data showing that he passed under yellow? The flags on the course control the condition in that area, not telemetry data. Plus, there are other conditions where you pass cars under a yellow. SS thought that DC was part of the accident, so he just went on by. He broke a rule, he got a penalty. Case closed.

That article was taken totally out of context, I wouldn't read much into it if I were you. Scott may say what he thinks, unlike a lot of other F1 drivers, but he is far from stupid.
Hallen
S3 licensed
So, is there an English version of that website? My appologies for not having a clue about the German language...
Hallen
S3 licensed
Quote from mooneye :Hi, thanks first alot for the new Patch really great one.......

Now my Question is which amount of Steering degree° is the BMW SAuber using, also in real?
Have a DFP can adjust it from 0- 900°.

In the moment i have 380 in Logitech profiler and in game options too , but it feels too slow.
So in which range of degrees do Formula one cars work?

Tanks for any good answers

Set your wheel to what you want, but set your wheel turn compensation to 1. Then watch what happens in the car. The real wheel will not hit a stop but the virtual wheel will. You can match up the degrees that way if you want to, or just leave the wheel where it is and live without having stops.
Hallen
S3 licensed
Quote from Linsen :There's practically no chance BMW could lose the right to use their logo exclusively. It has a) to do with the fact that BMW is soo well known (that's according to german "markenrecht" at least). And I don't know how it works in the US, but I'm b) pretty sure BMW has protected their trademark internationally for pretty much all possible products. So if LFS had to take down the logo it's because they're not licensed to use it on the website. And besides, it's quite normal to sell different licenses for different purposes. I don't see what should be so bad about that.

Guys, it has little to do with US law, European law is just as messy. It also has nothing to do with who likes who and if we perceive it to be good exposure for BMW or not. In fact, it has little to do with if BMW thinks it is good exposure. It also has little to do with if it is well known or not. It has everything to do with commercial rights to the use of the logo. LFS is commercial, it is sold. BMW has to protect their marque. If the proper authorizations are given, then we will see the logo used. However, it may be for only specific uses, like on the cars.
There is minutia here that most people are not aware of. For example, there will be specific rules about the use of the logo that would have to be followed as well, size, positioning, disclaimers, copyrights, etc, that have to be met to use the logo. I hope that it is just a simple glitch and the logo goes back up where it was, but it could be that the logo police at BMW thought that it needed some changes...
Hallen
S3 licensed
It would certainly be nice, but what we really need is the third spring setting that adjusts for downforce. This is a simple system that takes up the load for the downforce at speed and allows the ride height and regular springs to be set more easily.
Hallen
S3 licensed
Quote from Madman_CZ :all this legal obligation is a load of bollocks, i mean if there is such a thing "you can only use the logo in game but not on you website agreement" then that really is the biggest load of nonsense ever. I mean having the logo on their website is extra advertising for BMW. Maybe they are afraid people will copy and paste it LOL.. like the internet isnt full of BMW logos, i guess in the end they think they are doing the right thing and protecting their company but really a the same time its making them look quite silly...

or maybe victor forgot to add the bmw logo jpeg and we are going into this logo disapperance too much...


edit* i am suprised the bmw car (the bf1) doesnt have the bmw logo on a unskinnable area of the car so no matter what skin you paint it will always say its a bmw somewhere on the car if they are so fussy.. infact why let ppl skin it at all, though it would be difficult to stop them!

mad

Unfortunately, governments and lawyers have made intellectual property a confusing and dangerous mess. This means that if you do not actively protect your intellectual property and marques, you will lose the exclusive right to use them. If in fact BMW did ask the guys to remove the logo (which is in question because some people still see it), it would be because a specific use agreement had not been authorized.

BMW must have exclusive right to the use of that logo. Official use of the logo must be controlled by BMW or BMW will lose the right to use it exclusively. It is as simple as that.

But, this all could be a mute point as the logo might just not be cached properly for some of us.
Hallen
S3 licensed
Quote from Plastik8 :LOL I thought that as well.....

I wonder what the meaning of the removal of the BMW badge is??

Having the rights to use the BMW Sauber F1 car design and having the rights to use the BMW logo are two totally different things. The team has the right to use the logo of course, but they don't have the right to allow others to use the logo without permission from BMW corporate. That is my guess as to why they removed the logo.
Hallen
S3 licensed
I noticed while skinning the car that I can't change the color for the camera on top of the car. I would like to be able to do that... or actually, each team member to do that so you can easily identify who is in what car.
Did anybody see anything different? Can the camera be "skinned".
Hallen
S3 licensed
But still, we are down to 1 day. I just wish they would give us a bit more than just changing the day countdown. I don't consider changing the countdown as an update. But ah, well. One day to go.
Hallen
S3 licensed
Quote from geezer45 :I know one can modify the graphic file for suits and gloves, but they still appear low-res and can't be view online.

Ah yes, that is true. Forgot about that little part
Hallen
S3 licensed
Quote from bobvanvliet :Uhm, I think they do actually...

They do not have electronically controlled launch control. They do have traction control. You hear a bunch of sputtering on the starts because the traction control kicks in, but they are not allowed to use the computers to control the launch. Renault does seem to have something going for it, but it is not the same as what used to be used.
Hallen
S3 licensed
You can make your own suite "skins" and glove "skins" if you want, so go for it
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG