Quote from jtw62074 :

Essentially the main component of drag is the difference in pressure between the front and rear of a car. I.e., the pressure on the rear surface of the car is lower than the front, so you get a force trying to slow it down. With two cars running together, that rear car's front pressure is lower than it would otherwise be since it's sitting in the front car's low pressure area, so drag is reduced.

However, the rear car still has relatively high pressure at the front, which most likely creates a high pressure zone that extends to the rear of the front car, which gives it a boost too. End result is that both cars can run faster.

That's my guess anyway Would be fun to model it that way and see what happens though. I don't know if that'd be in the patch though.

I think you are close, but not quite. The most efficient wing is one that is infinitely long. Look at a glider for a good example. The reason is that the low pressure air on top of the wing will mix with the high(er) pressure air under the wing cause wing tip vortices. These vortices induce massive amounts of drag. That is why you see airplanes with those vertical wing tips. They try to reduce this effect.

If you put two cars back to back, it essentially makes a longer wing. Now two cars are traveling along with a much reduced drag because the turbulence they create is reduced to the signature of one car instead of two.

In order to pass from the draft, you really have to get a "run" on the car in front. You have to back off a bit, mash the gas and try to use the reduced drag to slingshot around. If you are just bumper to bumper, it does not work well for passing, but can make both cars go faster.

I don't know if this effect is modeled in LFS, but I doubt it.

Quote from P5YcHoM4N :

This is all true, but as it's a game you don't get the same feeling. Just racing road cars has nothing on when I used to race with my mum at an old air strip. We rarely broke 100mph, but the rush is there, on a game unless you are pressing 100mph, it just seems slow.

But as I did the racing (well I say racing, I don't think flying around an airport with one other car counts as real racing, but I had fun) it reminds me of that, so in a way I know what it feels like. As I'll never fly around a corner at 130+ then open up to 200+, it just seems so dull as I'll never know what that really feels like. Plus once the downforce gets them they seem to easy. Where as the road cars the faster you go the more edgy they get.

Saying that as I've never driven a largely downforced car I'll never really know how they feel at speeds. Only what LFS tells me

The speed is all relative... to a degree. The F1 cars are built to stay on the track at those kinds of speeds. When they decide to cut lose, they give very, very little warning unlike a sports car. The F1 cars that are racing are just as much on the edge as a sports car is. Passing comes at a premium in F1 and therefore, every pass for position is exciting. Plus, it is the drama, the uncompromising pursuit of perfection.
I like sports car racing best, both to watch and to drive (ALMS, Le Mans), but I also love F1. You really have to get into the teams, drivers and personalities before you really get it. I have yet to see an F1 car live, but I think if you did, you would be in love with them too.
Driving them in a sim is going to be interesting. Corners will come at you so fast. The braking will be insane. None of us are going to drive them very well for quite a while. It will probably be messy... but fun

Quote from Blackout :

More people have gone mental over night.

edit. pic updated

:ices_rofl

That is priceless! Thanks for posting the pics. Two NASSA team members in there, but we would sure love to invite the monkey to our team too

And it wasn't over night. It was during the evening... you are just on the wrong side of the world ;-)

I did notice that there happens to be an extra control arm in the LFS version compared to the real thing.

Quote from ATC Quicksilver :

Like i said up there ^^ it won't include the type of bodywork you see in the races, because they modelled it on the first version of it....so compared to the latest BMW Sauber that render is out of date by months.

True. But still, good enough. Most people are not going to notice the difference anyway.

I think it would be virtually impossible to keep up the in-game model with the real thing considering they are constantly updating the real one.

I am glad it is BMW-Sauber. They are my team

Quote from stevewhite :

i used the F08 on my friends computer who introduced me to lfs and it doesnt have grooved slicks.

True, grooved slicks are a F1 thing. It is done in an effort to reduce the contact patch area of the tires to slow the cars down. LFS did not have this type of tire for the current release version.
If you are going to do an F1 car, you pretty much have to have this type of tire. It could be just a new texture for the current slicks, or it could be an all-new tire type.

Quote from Taavi(EST) :

about that BMW test track, well i found something with google earth...

That thing is insane! Imagine all the track combinations you could make there illepall

Real F1 cars have traction control so having that option would be realistic.

Quote from DevilsTower :

um, I was just looking at the pic, and when looking at the pit road; is it closed off? Not that it has any purpose or anything, but its the only thing I reacted to... I'm in the really tired mode now btw... Been up all night waiting for the patch, after Kajojek popped up on our server saying the patch was outillepall

I don't think it is closed off, but the bridge across the pit lane with the signs on it are gone.

Quote from Tweaker :

Well if you look at the data of the image, it says Adobe Photoshop CS2... and that doesn't prove it is photoshopped, because it could have been resized in PS... but still, there is a possibility. Because if you look at the sky, there clearly is a white linear fade effect, not to mention the dry saturation of the whole picture :doh:

How do you look at the data? If you look at the properties using a right click on the site, then it shows you whatever program your computer associates with the file type.

I am very good at picking out photoshopped pictures... but only if they start as real pictures. This started as a graphic in the first place.

Quote from XCNuse :

i know who took it

kidcodea did.. its his work, i can tell, i know his work, i have a picture that is almost exactly the same from him but its of aston

yes it is a bug that still remains in some places, but most of it was fixed

now.. until someone here with the latest version of S2 can recreate that picture angle.. exactly then.. my point is a proven

Why don't you go and do it. I did it hours ago, but did not bother to snap a screen shot. Your point is not proven. You may be right, but just because it looks like a similar picture that you have that Kid did, does NOT prove your point. Why don't you post that picture?

Quote from XCNuse :

for the 5000000th time, its just an edited screenshot taken from the beta test stage

now .. i havent said this, but some of you may be asking.. how do you know its from betatest?
WELL... during the betatest stage, they had a bug.. that is visible from that picture.. YOU CANT recreate that picture in LFS right now.. now can you? no, because it was a bug that you could go up really high with the camera in shift-u mode

Except for the haze, yes you can recreat that picture in LFS right now. Shift-U, V for overhead, tilt the camera up.

There are a few minor differences with signs and such. I don't know, but maybe they were just trying to be mysterious with the whole guru thing, but it does seem to hint at some kind of weather related feature.

lol, OK, OK, I guess this is like putting on your rally cap
So, a new avatar it is...

Quote from cwmax :

<----- taps fingers on desk...

waiting for post 2000 to come around

Quit that. it's annoying! I can hear you from hereillepall

Quote from B11TME :

Can some one confirm this is a new rally track as well in these pics? I have marked it out.

I don't think so. Those support roads have been there since Aston got released. A gravel rally stage would be cool though.

On the North track, there seems to be more trees on the hill behind the tire.
Also, in the inset picture, the tire has something written on it that is not shown in the bigger shot for the North track...

Last edited by Hallen, Sat, 15 Apr 2006 20:19.

The sign on the GT track has changed. It says "Next" (I think) now. It used to say DT*uK Also, there seems to be some more bill boards further on down the track.

Quote from bo-kristiansen :

yes.. the tyrebridge is different. ..and the lamppost ARE new.

..actually... night condition MAY be the surprise or maybe even day/night cyklus




im WAY TOO excitet... need a rest... :faint:

How do you get the camera set high like that?

Quote from Marty502 :

The flex, I think, varies from track to track config. On Monaco they allow a lot of flexibility to the chassis because the track is so twisty, but on something like Monza (lots of straights) they use a much more rigid chassis. I think.

Uh, no.
They always want the CAR as stiff as possible. They reset the suspension stiffness depending on the track. Monaco calls for lots of mechanical grip because of all the slow, slow speed corners. Therefore, the suspensions will have a bit more give in them than normal. For F1, it ain't much give, but it is there.

If the frame flexes, you can't control how the car is going to react. A stiff frame is predictable and you can use tire pressures and suspension settings to control how the car drives. It is one reason why convertable cars are not usually all that good for racing. Without the roof, the frame is just not as stiff (in general).

Quote from XCNuse :

er.. if your making a joke tristan.. thats different

but if you arent, i guess you didnt see the and between the two

well.. a simple google search shows that im definetly not the only person that calls if the fv8

Well.... tires (oops, sorry) tyres do have aerodynamic properties too. They create drag and vortices in the air stream. It would be cool if they did model the tyre aerodynamics

Quote from molocco :

i think the devs are having fun with this tread, too.

peace mo

I think they are having fun with it. I know I am. These little peeks into what has been going on are cool. It makes a nice break for me during the work day to open up the browser and see what is happening.illepall

Quote from banshee56 :

I have had several sessions (each over a couple of days) on the CEROLAG server, racing the TBO classes at Aston Club, FE Green, and KY GP Long. They always use a rule of having FXO drivers carry a passenger in front. This seems to even out the performance of the FXO relative to the XRT, with the RB4 lagging behind as usual. I have found that even though this class is slower and maybe not as exciting on your own, these cars require a lot of planning and control to make them fast, as they are NOT race cars. This is even more important when you are beside someone, as it requires a different corner entry and throttle control to make a clean pass and still be somewhat fast. These cars are a great challenge, regardless of their relative speed.

Wow! Banshee driving a car with fenders on it and liking it... never thought I would see it lol

I think the point is that the faster cars leave less time to correct for mistakes. Add that to the fact that a lot of drivers, especially on public servers, can't drive the faster cars properly, you don't get close racing.
The GTR's are sexy, it attracts the noobs because they are fast. But they are not ready to drive them in close racing situations.
I love the TBO, LRF and slower cars. They are a blast to drive and they can be caught before a big mistake happens. I think you can have close racing with all cars, but it is more likely with the slower cars.

Quote from AndroidXP :

PS: I'm from Brazil. J/K

:leb: :ices_rofl
But that really is a bit of an insider's joke... but still a good one.

^^^^^And there is the perfect ending to this thread. ^^^^
Good stuff guys, lets RACE

Quote from RoadRunner :

Hi everyone

This is a really interesting discussion for two reasons.

As a german I really know how it feels to get attacked just because of your nationality. “Heil Hitler” and “Nazi **** of” are the nicer comments from this people. All you can do, is to leave the server and wonder how some guys can be so stupid. Idiots live everywhere. The sad part of this story is, that this nazi-comments mostly come from two countrys in the northwest. Funny, that I especially like these countrys most of all european countrys. Fate...

Anyways:

On the other hand it´s also very intersting to have the possility to discuss directly with you americans about the political things, witch are the origin of their problems on the servers.

I really can not understand comments like Infinitis. How can you have such an one dimensional viewpoint to your countrys political actions? Why can a US citizen like Hallen be so confident of the democratic system, while living in a country where it works so bad, worse then in nearly any other country in the world?



Please stop talking about the USA as a free country. It is all theoretical nonsense! All this babble about the land of the free and the power of the masses is imo absolutly bullshit. It just sounds like a mantra the citizens have to repeat all the time to make themselves believe it. I would be quite happy to say that it´s better in "old europe", but I think it´s a lie on each side of the ocean. We are all media controlled voting livestock. But there is still an important difference: When I look to your country, I see a media industry that was afraid to raise some critical voices against the irak war. That´s a point to get seriously worried about, not just because of your massive military power.

There is a (at least at the second election) regulary voted president who is not ashamed to lie as hell to accomplish his (or his financiers) inhuman politics. A Condoleezza Rice who is lying about the fact, that the us military is torturing innocent people with the knowledge of the government. A Dick Cheney who would perfectly fit to our goddamn NPD party... how can such a man be acceptalbe to your nation? A barefaced Donald Rumsfeld lying to the UN by pretending facts about Saddams weapons of mass destuction. His presentation just made me want to puke. It´s like losing the little rest of faith in the world politics in just a few minutes. And in the end there is a nation legalizing all this by still supporting this government. WTF?

How can a nation be so brainless? Or is it just ignorant?

I saw the movie “Hotel Rwanda” some weeks ago. I can only recommend this film to everyone who doesn´t understand how perverted our “democracy” is. This film establishes the question, how it was possible that the whole western world was looking a bit bored at the genozide where 75% - 90% of the Tutsi were murdered and doing just nothing. The answer the movie gives is as simple as it gets close to the truth: A living african isn´t worth one stupid vote on the next election.
The world is never like the propaganda, the media wants to make you believe. It´s so important to understand this. It doesn´t mean that the press ist always wrong, but it´s always just a small window you are looking through and in the worst case the window grate warps the picture to a lie.

I can highly recommend you to read the speech of Harold Pinter he held after winning the literature Nobel Prize. The interesting part of this speech begins with the following sentence: “Political language, as used by politicians, does not venture into any of this territory since the majority of politicians, on the evidence available to us, are interested not in truth but in power and in the maintenance of that power.” If you are interested in it you might search for this cut. It´s definatly worth the time the reading takes

http://www.counterpunch.org/pinter12072005.html


Ps.: I hope nobody feels harmed because of the written, the main reason for it might be my bad english knowledge. I hope it´s not to bad, so you understand what I want to say And if some things sound a bit rude, they aren´t ment to

Democracy, or whatever label you want to put on it, has it's problem in the US, but it certainly works.
Secondly, nobody is truly free. However, Americans are free to choose a whole lot about how they want to live their lives. I think that is true in a lot of nations now.
The thing you don't understand is this: It is ALL an illusion. It is just that we, the people of this world, CHOOSE to believe in it and make it work. We have to because the alternative is total chaos. There is no "Them", only individuals working together trying to maintain order and stability.

Our press is more free than you know. They are the cause of many of our greatest woes and greatest achievements. They definitely have a political agenda, both left(mostly) and a few on the right. They choose on what to report, and they often choose to report only what they want us to hear. It is their freedom to do so. Free press does do damage, but it is damage that we willingly absorb. The image that you may have of American politics is greatly influenced by that same media. It is a very negative picture of the US. Most of it is overstated and made to be more damaging than it really is. Life here is not perfect, but it is good. My point is, do not let what you hear and see in the popular media override your common sense and view of the world. They paint a bleak picture that does not represent the truth very well.

And what you say about our media being afraid to take a stance is simply misinformed. Our media has railed against the war and against any military action against terrorists or anybody else for years. There have been protests here, and continue to be protests over America's involvement or lack thereof in international affairs.

I also don't understand how we get blamed for genocide in Africa and for sticking our nose in where it doesn't belong at the same time. Either we are a world player and we try to do what is right, or we ignore the rest of the world and let whatever happens happen. The latter is the definition of isolationist, BTW. And nobody, from any other nation, can stand back and say that their countries' international policy is not affected by politics, money, and power because it is. However, I do believe that for the most part everybody wants to try and do what is right. America is a great nation of people who are for the most part benign and want to help.

Oh, saying "How can a nation be so brainless"... would be considered rude in most places.

Quote from Funnybear :

Every 'demoracy' needs a Michael Moore. We have one. His name is Mark Thomas. Been a bit quiet of late, but's he's working on new ways to severly embarris the government. And boy does he have teh amterial.

...and them wretched Mp's and Bloomin Gorden 'wannabe' Brown are busy passing an ammendment to get their Pension raised whilst symultaniously slashing the entire countries.

Ah, so there you have it. They already have you by the "attachments". They control "your" money. You are now a slave to your government. You now work for them. You see, the power of the people is lessened by the fact that the people have figured out they can vote themselves money from the government. None of those types want their gravy tray taken away, so they will always vote for the guy who gives them "free" money and won't vote for the guy who would set them free because being free means that you are on your own... "freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose". OK, I'm done now. illepall
Group Hug