that's because with low pressure, the tire "displace" a lot having to drive only on outer edge...since you "averagly" turn 50% left and 50% right you consume only the both edge of a tire and not the center.
and with low pressure "the center tend to lift" but "the inner part tend more" and that's natural, what it's absurd is center "lifting" more than "inner"
PS i did a lot of semplifications in terms hoping to be more clear, i hope you get it right
EDIT: about low pressure: as i did before i did tests very different settings and at 2.2 bar (the max recommended for an xfg like car) this is still ugly, only at max lfs tire pressure and maximum negative camber things START to be normal
Last edited by Honey, .
just to be clear i dont want to say this patch is ugly, ideed at most is a huge improvement, but to me: tire deformation on road tires and pressure/grip relationship are a bit too wrong and may feel thing lot bad, i hope that after the "bf1 fever" more people speking english better than me, can do the same tests and give more feedback.
edit: PS scawen from your reply you clearly didn't read what i wrote, reading again i think i explained clearly what i meant, but i could be wrong obviously
edit: PS scawen from your reply you clearly didn't read what i wrote, reading again i think i explained clearly what i meant, but i could be wrong obviously
Last edited by Honey, .
the first point is: with F9 info even at slow speeds (50kmh eg) the center pressure is the less, while the gradient should not change sign, wich means that if at the outer side there is the maximum pressure, in the center it should be between the outer and the inners pressure...how it is now, it means that the central part of tire is "lifting from tarmac" and the tire is bending inside toward the rim (only the central part)
the second point i mean: at 50kmh into traffic tires "are not deforming", while in lfs they are much
i did a lot of testing changing setups in every way even with extreme values, before speaking...to me seems that the handling problems arose here are related to this http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=111845#post111845
so "except" the first 2 screenshots you are cleary saying that lfs deformation is way too exaggerated...
also in the first 2 screenshots, tires are smaller than xfg and still they deform way much less than lfs -> the xfg at slow speed deform much more than the extreme situation of the citroen in the screenshot.
what everyone do not want to hear is teh artifacts:
1 - lfs tires do not deform by "displacement", but they "stretch" reducing the contact surface...that's impossible! on the contrary in real life in very infinitesimal amount the tire surface tend to "enlarge"
2 - in lfs tires the central part seems to have some sort of vacuum having the less pressure, meaning that the center part of the tire lift from road having some misterious force that attracts toward the rims...obviously this is absurd
3 - lfs deformation (eg xfg) at slow speeds (like driving in real life into traffic) is much more than the most extreme situation in the real life (eg the citroen in the previous post)...i don't know you, but when i drive at 50kmh into traffic i don't see any deformation at all...
i stop talking other things, because if you people cannot see those 3 evident absurd things, you are clearly blinded by the pleasure of handling formula cars and gtr like if they was 900cc/50bhp cars...
i agree with anything you said in this thread, at least for formula cars, tire changing and refuelling must be at same time.
with bf1 the time lost for such unrealistic pit times, is way too much
yeah i was asking it from several months as many other people (there are some threads already int the forum)
for other cars the problem is even worse so
to virtual side mirrors
for other cars the problem is even worse so
to virtual side mirrorsi invite everyone that sys it is right, to take the xfg put tire pressure at 2.2 bars (the maximum recommended for car like xfg), put 3.5 live camber (that's huge!), hit F9 and drive slowly around blackwood you will be driving all time on sidewall (and this is wrong) but what is impossible is that the outer side of tire has 90% of the weight and center part has the less amount wich is against any phisic law!!!
would people do a test before speaking?
things start to behave normally only at maximum tire pressure and maximum camber.
on cars with wider tires this abnormal situation is much less evident.
i think that slick tires are simulated quite well (i guess it's because of bf1) but road tires are unnatural! not to mention that the longitudinal grip is much much more than RL (while the lateral grip is too low imho).
i understand people are happy because formula car are now easy to drive, but if someone take the time to test the xfg, would see it too.
PS again some posts above there are some RL screenshots of cars racing that shows how much tire deforms, if you don't believe me that watch those screenshots to face the reality: the tire deformation IS wrong!
would people do a test before speaking?
things start to behave normally only at maximum tire pressure and maximum camber.
on cars with wider tires this abnormal situation is much less evident.
i think that slick tires are simulated quite well (i guess it's because of bf1) but road tires are unnatural! not to mention that the longitudinal grip is much much more than RL (while the lateral grip is too low imho).
i understand people are happy because formula car are now easy to drive, but if someone take the time to test the xfg, would see it too.
PS again some posts above there are some RL screenshots of cars racing that shows how much tire deforms, if you don't believe me that watch those screenshots to face the reality: the tire deformation IS wrong!
well before starting to speak i've done some tests changing settings...and it seems i was quite in touch with the new patch since with xfg i've managed to be 1 or 2 seconds fater than other online and even more fast offline.
also i have more than enough phisic knowledge to know that what F9 shows you with road tires is very far from reality.
you talk as you would have tested lot, but you clearly didn't even a little, please do some test to see what im talking about
infact i consider because i drive my car (xfg like) at its very grip edge even while braking and even while cornering, so while i specified i do not have experience with slicks and not said it about road tires, i tought it was clear i think to be enoughly objective and see if someone else have the same feelings.
a firend of mine with a similar car but with slightly better tires (17 inches rims and litle wider tires), has very little deformation.
as i said my point is not merely on graphical effect wich is much less important, but quite on phisic effect. as tweaker said, the flat part of tire is "hardly" deforming in RL but on lfs is the opposite...anyway, screenshots previously posted show powerful cars at very limit race conditions and u can see yourself the amount of deformation.
we are not talkin only about graphic effect BUT phisic effect: if u try lapping with F9 info u see that while cornering the wheight is all on the very edge of the tire while the 66% of tire surface is "lifting" from tarmac...and this cannot be right/real
my impression is that for slick tires it seemsquite real but not for road normal/super tires.
i mean, i suppose normal tires are on "standard" rims and road super on a bit bigger rims and what it feels very wrong to me is the relation pressure/grip, in real life when "road normal" tires have low pressure they deform a lot, but still much less than in lfs (visually speaking), in RL when tire pressure is under the optimal, grip is much less, while in lfs grip is MUCH MORE! so people tend to use low pressure tires...my first impressions are that with new patch slick tires seems much more realistic (but i dont have much experience with RL slicks), but road tires fells much worse, but the point to me is only due to pressure/grip relation.
using F9 it clearly shows that even with exaggerated negative cambers we are always driving on sidewalls if we dont put extremely high pressures, so im pretty sure something has to be tuned.
i also think that the pressure/grip was wrong in patch Q but never showed up so clearly because of lesser realistic tire simulation, now that tire simulation is much improved, it feels much evident IMO.
i mean, i suppose normal tires are on "standard" rims and road super on a bit bigger rims and what it feels very wrong to me is the relation pressure/grip, in real life when "road normal" tires have low pressure they deform a lot, but still much less than in lfs (visually speaking), in RL when tire pressure is under the optimal, grip is much less, while in lfs grip is MUCH MORE! so people tend to use low pressure tires...my first impressions are that with new patch slick tires seems much more realistic (but i dont have much experience with RL slicks), but road tires fells much worse, but the point to me is only due to pressure/grip relation.
using F9 it clearly shows that even with exaggerated negative cambers we are always driving on sidewalls if we dont put extremely high pressures, so im pretty sure something has to be tuned.
i also think that the pressure/grip was wrong in patch Q but never showed up so clearly because of lesser realistic tire simulation, now that tire simulation is much improved, it feels much evident IMO.
IMO the new fonts are terribly ugly, btw they should be on the car dashboard for realism, BUT not in the HUD: i cannot read them!
so my suggestion is digital for in-car view, old fonts for on-screen hud.
so my suggestion is digital for in-car view, old fonts for on-screen hud.
omffffffg what a blast! that movie is really "scary" and the sound of it...terrifing! i would give the bf1 back to have this car in lfs
sauber don't but intel does...surely intel gained much more sympathy (only that btw
)yep i definately must adapt my xfr/xfg (who saw it know how beautiful and how red it is
) skin to the bmwyeah, but seemed that many people still didnt know...
btw, omg, omg, this car is really beautiful not much different from the rendering: really amazing!
if i were u, guys, i will check the main page right now...
that's weird but few nights ago i dreamt of it: into a really weird nightmare, at some point there was scawen that was no longer available (dunno why) and victor and eric called me saying that i was the only person on this planet i could finish lfs as it was meant to be...iirc the first thing i did was the setup manager (many times i was tempted to really do it as a standalone app
)...what can i say...i'm a dreamer!!!
...and if it is a real track too????!!!!
moreover, the devs must have copyright to put that picture, that legally means that lfs has the license to reproduce the BMW-F1, hence the devs have the license to put it in the game.
i think there is no doubt about that, also it seems that this only part of the surprise...
why is everyone so excited for F1? apart from spreading lfs, i would have much more excited if the new car was a BMW-M3 rather than the BMW-F1...
i tried to see how many heart attacks it would have caused a news like that
sice only 2 people replied, must be all others had an heart attack
OMG!!!!!! THE PATCH IS OUT!!! it's only the dedihost patch and not yet on main page (you have to go to additional downloads page)...but IS OUT!!! let's hope the main patch will be released before dinner!!! :static:
good points!
lfs needs few data to simulate a car (weight & distribution, power, torque etc.), so me too thinks sauber didnt need to disclose any particular secret, just the desing and other public tech data.
like you said, F1 will not be the dominating star (except for the next few weeks) that no other car will be used: i think that F1 will have much more grip than fo8 and will be quite easy to drive, but still too hard for many people and in the end there is no car that can beat the addiction to the xfg+blackwood combo
formula cars arenot my favourite, but having a licansed F1 car in lfs is a damn good advertisement, i guess that maybe in S3 we will have some real track also.
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG