Forza 2 feels great for a semi-sim that's played with a game-pad. GT5P feels like all the other GT games - undoubtedly to keep the fans happy - but the cars are just more tail-happy. I'd describe the FFB of GT5P as... fluffy. At times it almost feels as if the wheel is just using a cheap center-spring effect (this is with a G25, not some rubbish toy) instead of giving actual feedback to the road.
One of the things which impressed me about Forza 2 was how the feel of the car and what it's doing is transmitted so naturally through the simple vibration of the gamepad, even though it does feel smoothened for general purposes.
I'm sure though, that if Microsoft had proper wheel-support and designed Forza 2 as much around steering-wheels as Polyphony has, then Forza 2 would have vastly superior FFB and a vastly more realistic feel.
That said though... I don't know about the physics of GT5P; they might be sick-good for all I know (although I doubt it) but it just feels stupid in terms of FFB, even with a great wheel.
Greger Huttu is not human anyway. The only person I could think of that could be anywhere near his speed is Biggie, the LFS WR machine, but I've never seen anyone like Huttu. The guy does a qualification lap which is unbelievably fast, and then he goes into a 20 lap race and drives off into the sunset from pole-position doing that exact same lap over and over and over again without error until he reaches the finish line.
Sims will always allow for driving that is not possible in real life. As for the high kerb jumping: the car reacts fine to them - the way I violently took the kerb at the double apex hairpin in my video (which was a mistake, not the norm) has caused me a lot of grief already, because more often than not I've spun right into the wall.
Here's a perfect example of the Sim-style phenomenon:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=nNTLkS4FhqE
At 43 seconds; do you think any F1 driver would ever take a turn like that at those speeds, going that hard over the kerbs near those tyres?
LFS has excellent physics, so it has nothing to do with that - it's the people being able to find the absolute limits without compromise that causes such driving, not the physics.
Edit: I must admit, watching that Biggie lap made me want to fire up LFS and go for a couple of laps, because by god I still love LFS for hotlapping
I just wish Biggie would step up and beat Huttu, even if only for once!
Sims will always allow for driving that is not possible in real life. As for the high kerb jumping: the car reacts fine to them - the way I violently took the kerb at the double apex hairpin in my video (which was a mistake, not the norm) has caused me a lot of grief already, because more often than not I've spun right into the wall.
Here's a perfect example of the Sim-style phenomenon:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=nNTLkS4FhqE
At 43 seconds; do you think any F1 driver would ever take a turn like that at those speeds, going that hard over the kerbs near those tyres?
LFS has excellent physics, so it has nothing to do with that - it's the people being able to find the absolute limits without compromise that causes such driving, not the physics.
Edit: I must admit, watching that Biggie lap made me want to fire up LFS and go for a couple of laps, because by god I still love LFS for hotlapping
I just wish Biggie would step up and beat Huttu, even if only for once!
Last edited by Jertje, .
Boing boing:
http://blip.tv/file/1148270/
It's finally done uploading. I pretty much know where I lose time, but there's a difference between knowing where to gain it and doing it
Oh, and in case it's hard to read: first lap (very hairy at the double-apexed turn
) was 48.8xx and the second lap was a 48.4xx.
I originally only intended on uploading the faster lap, but I had a big chunk of fraps material from ~6 laps and forgot to edit all of it out
http://blip.tv/file/1148270/
It's finally done uploading. I pretty much know where I lose time, but there's a difference between knowing where to gain it and doing it
Oh, and in case it's hard to read: first lap (very hairy at the double-apexed turn
) was 48.8xx and the second lap was a 48.4xx.I originally only intended on uploading the faster lap, but I had a big chunk of fraps material from ~6 laps and forgot to edit all of it out
Aha, you appear to be having the same 'problem' I had Crommi. You drive incredibly smooth, but it appears that the Skippy is not the right car for that specific driving technique.
I asked Luke McLean what I was doing wrong earlier at Infineon Cup, because I was in the same situation where I was driving near perfect lines at near perfect levels of grip without being 'fast' in comparison to the aliens, and here's a snippet of what he told me:
Even though that's a lap around the cup layout, I guess you get the point
It also really seems as if your setup is made for stable driving, instead of the crazy kart-style entries on the brakes, I'd like to try it and see how that works.
In the mean-time, here's the set I'm using to get used to the "Huttu" school of driving. I picked it up on the forums, but I can't find it anymore so I can't credit the guy who made it, but full creds to him
I'm also in the process of uploading a 48.4 with my current driving style, which you'll see is quite a bit different from yours. It doesn't look as fast, and I'm a lot less on the limit, but that goes to show how much potential there is left in that style.
Edit: btw, this does seem to be a very specific advantage that the GPL drivers have on us LFSers; it seems like that style was the way to go, and much of it was carried over in cars like the Skippy. From what I've heard though, Spanks could be a real beast in a car that needs to be driven like that
I asked Luke McLean what I was doing wrong earlier at Infineon Cup, because I was in the same situation where I was driving near perfect lines at near perfect levels of grip without being 'fast' in comparison to the aliens, and here's a snippet of what he told me:
Even though that's a lap around the cup layout, I guess you get the point
It also really seems as if your setup is made for stable driving, instead of the crazy kart-style entries on the brakes, I'd like to try it and see how that works.
In the mean-time, here's the set I'm using to get used to the "Huttu" school of driving. I picked it up on the forums, but I can't find it anymore so I can't credit the guy who made it, but full creds to him
I'm also in the process of uploading a 48.4 with my current driving style, which you'll see is quite a bit different from yours. It doesn't look as fast, and I'm a lot less on the limit, but that goes to show how much potential there is left in that style.
Edit: btw, this does seem to be a very specific advantage that the GPL drivers have on us LFSers; it seems like that style was the way to go, and much of it was carried over in cars like the Skippy. From what I've heard though, Spanks could be a real beast in a car that needs to be driven like that
Last edited by Jertje, .
Consistency should come before speed
I've learned that from ~1.48 onwards it's mostly down to driving style though. I had an incredibly clean driving style and 1.48.5 was as good as it's going to get with that - you do need to slide the cars into corners instead of waiting for them to settle, a bit like go-karts, which is what Huttu does. That takes a lot of getting used to though.
I've learned that from ~1.48 onwards it's mostly down to driving style though. I had an incredibly clean driving style and 1.48.5 was as good as it's going to get with that - you do need to slide the cars into corners instead of waiting for them to settle, a bit like go-karts, which is what Huttu does. That takes a lot of getting used to though.
Hahaha, oh man... I love the Finnish
That does suck. I cancelled my subscription as soon as I renewed for the year - I had the same crap in WoW where it renewed automatically, so I decided to do some pre-emptive cancelling since I wouldn't be too happy if I quite racing after about 9 months and then get renewed for a year 3 months after that
Well, I guess they are capitalist pigs in the end, even if they do provide.
As for the real-world racing thing... I wish, but something tells me $156 is a drop in the ocean when you do real-life racing. I'm just a student
I'll also just point out again that the sim is indeed not for everyone. This can't be argued I guess; it's just a new type of service and not everyone will appreciate how it is set up. However, in my opinion it is definitely the best sim out there from a technical point of view. The pricing might be a bit steep, but you do ultimately get what you pay for if you (are willing/able to) put the time in.
That, and one quick look around the iRacing community and you get the idea that a triple monitor-setup with a G25 is something a lot of those guys laugh at - let alone the subscription/content fees. I've seen plenty of cockpits that must be worth over 5 grand, easily. And even though I will never get into it that much (let's not try to explain that to a new girlfriend) and I never hope to spend that much on a hobby, it sure feels great to be racing with people who take it serious, even if all they want to do is have fun.
Edit: Crommi - I guess most of that speed is just left-overs from experience gained at Infineon-cup, but I feel that this is as fast as I'll be for a while. The Skippy doesn't suit my driving style all that much, and I can't get used to the Huttu-school of driving that aliens like Luke Mclean follow.
That, and one quick look around the iRacing community and you get the idea that a triple monitor-setup with a G25 is something a lot of those guys laugh at - let alone the subscription/content fees. I've seen plenty of cockpits that must be worth over 5 grand, easily. And even though I will never get into it that much (let's not try to explain that to a new girlfriend) and I never hope to spend that much on a hobby, it sure feels great to be racing with people who take it serious, even if all they want to do is have fun.
Edit: Crommi - I guess most of that speed is just left-overs from experience gained at Infineon-cup, but I feel that this is as fast as I'll be for a while. The Skippy doesn't suit my driving style all that much, and I can't get used to the Huttu-school of driving that aliens like Luke Mclean follow.
Last edited by Jertje, .
You still don't understand the difference between arguing by using an analogy, and arguing the analogy itself. iRacing is not a powerdrill or a movie. We never said that it was; you should get the point by now.
Anyway, I'll skip on this argument, I'm sure we'd have a much better time arguing face-to-face, when sensibility tends to take up a greater role in comparison to meaningless internet-quarrels.
Arguing the analogy doesn't really win you the discussion.
That's probably just because noone at McLaren liked Alonso. And that's not because they only had so much love to give and decided to give it all to Hamilton
Kovalainen definitely didn't deserve this win, but the guy did deserve a win on the whole, even if only for his personality and spirit. Even though his performance wasn't particularly noteworthy, he does seem more confident since his contract renewal. I hope he can build on that and be on that podium more
And you can honestly say that you don't think so?
It's a bit like saying you're disappointed with the functioning of that new power-drill you bought after plugging it in and laying it on your desk for 5 minutes without touching it, and then deciding that the extra drills for it won't be worth it.
No time spent in the sim (regardless of what you say and did offline) - no valid opinion.
I wonder what made you buy LFS when there were no race cars in the demo either.
This may actually sound like a big load of cognitive dissonance, but I feel that the 2h separations between races of the same series are a big plus. It adds a certain weight to the races; people are less likely to quit after T1 and pop into a different server or wait until the next race. Not only does it add to the "if I crash or drive poorly it's a bad thing" mentality established by the Safety Rating, it also gives me good scheduling options. I know that I can plan to race at 20:00, and I'll pop into the race with the knowledge that there are going to be people of my own skill level that are going to give me a good fight; I don't have to worry much about primetime or checking beforehand if a server has decent competitors in it, or wait with racing until my favourite server is filled up a bit more.
Perhaps it's due to my close relation to Germans, but I love the structure of it all
Perhaps it's due to my close relation to Germans, but I love the structure of it all
Nah, it was like that when I was a kid, but now I don't care much for seeing blood, smelling vomit or poop or whatever. Just turn off your mind 
Endurance races with dynamic weather can't happen soon enough for me! I'm really looking forward to changing conditions and adapting to them. I just hope they'll actually implement weather.
Yeh, it does look like that. I'm preparing for next week at least, although I'll do at least one race on Silverstone when it comes into the cycle. I really wasn't happy with my performance at Infineon Cup, so I have a good excuse to go for it on Long :>
I had a LeMans style flip in a radical last race at Silverstone because someone came into my room and distracted me :>
Noone else involved though, and I was about the disconnect, so it was all good and spectacular :P
Noone else involved though, and I was about the disconnect, so it was all good and spectacular :P
Lewis wins after overtaking Heikki in a dubious situation in the last phase of the race. Massa 3rd.
Alright, so I'm a hypocrite :P
However, I jumped from 3rd to 1st at the start, taking the #1 spot from Dale Jr in the process, and then I continued to race with him for a lap until he span out and disco'ed. I felt like celebrating with chocolate, especially after I span out several times myself with my new ultra-loose setup, and so I did!
Last edited by Jertje, .
Erm... yes you can. As long as the gamepad has axis it works, I tried it... so it works.
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG