Quote from originalau :

I'm down under, and haven't played in a looong time. For a few reasons...

One being the age old new content blah blah.

Another being that there are(were?) no good aussie servers to just jump on and race. Yes there were all the Aus league and team servers but these were passworded the majority of the time. And I personally do not want to join a league, rather be able to jump on a server and have a friendly race with familiar faces every now and then.

Head on over to www.arse.org.au which is where most aussie racers hang out. It won't help the general problem of lack of racers but if you see a private server with people in it the password is in the LFS section unless it's a league race.
Most of us aussie regulars stick to the passworded servers as racing often gets spoiled by inexperienced euro drivers who're lagging a lot.

I think that maybe the two extremes of this argument aren't really all that extreme, guys like tristan aren't trying to block disabled people from playing LFS and guys like myself who are in favour of certain concessions aren't "arcarde" racers and aren't trying to dilute the sim that LFS is.
The world isn't black and white, "sim racers" and "arcade racers" don't really exist.
The purer the sim LFS becomes the more necessary certain aids are for beginners to overcome the initial difficulty, it's as simple as that. I welcome improvements to the LFS gear change system as I started using a clutch about three years ago, I already play LFS in a more realistic manner than most "hardcore" people seem to, how does that fit into peoples pre-conceptions?
A keyboard user with auto blip and cut is far removed from a wr holder flatshifting to gain an advantage.

Apologies if my thoughts are a bit jumbled as I'm really quite drunk atm

Quote from Boris Lozac :

EXACTLY how i felt back in 2003.. I instantly realised that it is something special and finaly something realistic! So those people who are put off by that are not the people that should play LFS.. There is MORE than enough other titles out there that can satisfy their needs, LFS doesn't have to be among them!

But who are you to decide who should be playing LFS? Who made you judge of what other peoples needs are? What's to say that the next complete noob with no idea about car control will never see the value in the realistic simulation that LFS is?
I'm glad the devs have some sense about them and realise that these small concessions, which have virtually no negative effects at all outside of pissing off supposedly hArDcOrE sim racers, open the wonderful world of LFS to those who might not initially see it's value.

Not that I think at this stage that the line in the video is anything more than an AI related tool but I would welcome the inclusion of a beginners racing line as I still remember how much help it was back when I first started learning SBK2001. It would have absolutely zero effect on my LFS experience but be very useful for someone new to sim racing.

mrodgers it probably depends on the way the pedals are layed out but I brake using the ball of my foot below the big toe. To blip the throttle I basically just flick my ankle to the right, my foot pivots on the ball and the outside of my foot naturally presses on the throttle. This way you don't have to move your leg at all and thus it makes it much easier to apply constant brake pressure.
Heel-toe is a bit of a misnomer and apparently originates from an old car with a totally different pedal arrangement, I would say the vast majority of people when they heel-toe don't use their heel at all but rather some part of the outside edge of the foot.

Another tip for learning that helped me at the time was to actually sit down at the wheel and pretend I was driving, imagine I was coming to a braking area and slowly go through each motion, eg. apply brake, apply clutch, change gear, blip throttle, disengage clutch, engage clutch, change gear, blip throttle etc. etc. You can do imaginary laps of your favourite track, slowly speeding up the process.
When you try learning in game as you've found out you come to a braking area and you muddle things up and next thing your in a wall.

Last edited by tailing, Wed 5 Dec 2007, 08:27.

Quote from DarinSRT :

The Div-X player is a small download.. To play the hi res version, you need the Div-X player. You can download the div-x version for later viewing. If you click the small arrow thats pointing down on the divx viewer, you can download the whole show.

There's also the lo-res of each show that is viewable.

I'll update the downloads page soon.. There's a lot of stuff missing from it.

Sorry, maybe my post came off as a little abrupt or critical. Correct me if I'm wrong but these files should be playable in any directshow player? I also can't see this small down arrow so I presume I need to install the web player to even download the file to my pc?
Can't you just provide a direct link for anal people like myself?

Is there a way to download the shows? I'm not going to install the DivX Web Player when it's not really necessary.

Great news this new patch, the car looks nice although like the fox is probably best suited to the smaller configs. The other additions to the clutch/engine also sound great and will hopefully really improve the realism on the gear shifting side of things.

btw South City is already very bumpy, nothing in the vid suggested to me that it's any more so than before.
South City is my favourite though so any improvements to it are more than welcome

You can tell he was very impressed
That's the first time I've seen the CXC and I have to say it looks very cool indeed, I want a go!!

Quote from Goop :

Pot is awesome for concentration too :shhh: or so I've heard.

Probably not a good idea in league-racing though :tired:

No, never during league races but I have done pb's hotlapping for leagues stoned :shhh:

I used to have a couple mouthfulls of redbull 10-15 minutes before a race, not so much that you start buzzing but just enough to kinda wake you up a little bit.

There are many in the aussie community that agree with you Woz, in fact we've just been discussing it recently on the ARSE forum here
http://arse.norbtech.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=136286#136286

The community is still strong but we just don't race LFS like we used to. During S1 days I would race for a couple hours every night after work but now there just aren't the numbers. Early S2 days were great, the AAL had nearly 80 racers for the first few comps but the numbers have slowly dwindled to now where there might be 20-30 each race.

The devs will do what they do which is their prerogative but the aussie community is in danger of dying a slow death at the moment and desperately needs something to re-ignite some interest again.

The real world?

Ideally the LFS shifting system will be updated at some point so that using an unrealistic shifting method for a particular type of car is limited to be slightly slower than doing it all manually. So for example using a paddle to change up a gear in a road car will not result in the seemingly instantaneous change it currently does but instead take a pre-determined amount of time. The clutch would get the same treatment as well.
This is probably one of the biggest potential improvements for LFS at this time imo, personally I'd place it as high up the list of importance as a tyre physics update.

G25 set at 720 degrees in control panel and in-game, 1.00 wheel turn compensation which I understand is the correct settings for full linear steering in every car, much as Woz stated.

I use whatever is appropriate for the car and always use clutch. So h-pattern in road cars, sequential in GTR's and paddles in the formulas. Back when I raced leagues I didn't have the h-pattern but I still always used clutch and only used the paddles for the formula cars.
Personally I believe there are more gains to be made in other areas which well and truly make up for what you might lose driving using clutch & shifter. This does diminish of course the closer you get to the bleeding edge but then you do become more proficient with the extra controls so the disadvantages also diminish.
If I were to start racing leagues again I would still use the whole lot, I just prefer it and don't worry about what others do that much.

Quote from marzman :

They can't be boring. All tracks are completely different. If you drive WR's on every track you can say you're bored, if you don't you don't get everything out of the track. I'm far from bored

Your kidding right, I honestly don't know how anyone can presume that they can tell other people whether they can be bored or not. This is not just directed at you but everyone who's mentioned such nonsense in this thread.
Personally I agree with those saying that there is a lot of variety in the LFS tracks and their various layouts but after more than two years and what, 4 or 5 now with the S1 tracks I'd like something new. If people have a problem with me stating that then it really is their hangup and has little to do with me.

Last edited by tailing, Thu 15 Nov 2007, 08:17.

I've been with LFS for a long time so I know and understand all the reasons why when it comes to the development and I also think it's fair to say that impatience is not my problem. However when S2 finally becomes final if it doesn't have at least a couple of new and totally unique track layouts and at least a couple of more cars I will be very disappointed. I do not think it is an unreasonable expectation to have more such content by that time or possibly even before then, S2 is still alpha after all.

I've never tried nkpro but have always been curious about it as namie had a lot to like about it (although not enough to devote time with it over lfs). I obviously then can't comment much on it but I happened to visit the forum at rsc and read the thread about what people love about nkpro and it was all stuff that I can get in lfs already, seemingly to a standard as good or better, without all the problems.

I dislike the MRT so much that I sometimes even forget that it's in the game, it's been cast out from my memory

The LX4 is my favourite car but like mrrodgers says it's hard to get races in it. I actually don't like the LX6 much, it doesn't have the same great balance of the LX4, most setups also seem compromised trying to control the rear.

The XFG is another I don't like much at all, I don't really understand what it is most people see in it. However the XFR is such a huge improvement over the XFG that it's one of my favourites (which only makes me wish for a RWD in the same class).

You only have to look at the improved engine sounds we now have to see that modding can be beneficial to LFS. Personally I'd like to see more tracks but I don't want to see extensive modding like we see in other sims.
I think there could/should be a way for extra tracks to be added to the game, I think it's only a matter of working out a way to do so that fits in with what LFS is all about. I don't see how a professionally created track would need to be updated with each physics change, someone more knowledgeable on the subject may correct me on this.
Just as an idea, one possible way to do it may be to allow a very select few track builders access to the tools Eric uses for the strict purpose of creating one or a couple of tracks up to the standard necessary for official inclusion in the game. Far be it for me to volunteer them to work essentially for free but with the dedication of some members of the community I could see some people willing to do this to see something they create get into the game.
Now there could be reasons (maybe many ) I'm not aware of that would prevent my suggestion from being possible. However rather than argue about whether or not LFS should allow modding I think it's better to try to come up with ideas on how some forms of modding could be worked into the framework of LFS. Give the devs some food for thought.

Hi, are the hi-res skies by kid and don in this pack? From the installation instructions it sounds like it but they're not mentioned in the list in the OP.

Quote from Homeless_Drunk :

Like myself and others have said, these kind of additions that make the game more realistic will really separate the arcade racers from the simulation racers.

This is elitist stereotyping plain and simple, if these supposed "arcade racers" actually existed don't you think they'd be playing arcade games and not a simulation like LFS?

Woz to his credit has brought up the only objectively valid reason for introducing fcv but then even that could be gotten around, just place a virtual windscreen in-front of all views. Smoke obscuring your vision would be a valid reason for disallowing chase view which I wouldn't oppose.

This whole thing really has more to do with elitism than achieving anything substantial for the game.

Quote from Gunn :

"Seeing your wheels" is not chase view. Chase view puts you up high so that you can see quite a way in front of you and even see what is around the bend. This applies to both autox and circuit racing. In a flat autox environment it is particularly noticeable.

I probably could have worded what I said better. Chase view at best provides a minimal advantage in circuit racing only by better being able to see obstacles up the road which might otherwise be obscured. This is no advantage in autox when drivers have memorised a layout already.
It is arguable that chase view provides a minimal advantage in positioning your car in autox but the crux of my point was that this, in and of itself, doesn't automatically mean you can position your car exactly where you want to. You still require the car car control to do so. If someone betters your time using chase view then imo 99 times out of 100 this will be because of their overall skill rather then the view, maybe even 999 times out of 1,000. Of course this is hard to quantify exactly.
My original comment was also referring to wheels view which some view as an advantage also in both circuit and autox racing. Having extensively raced with both wheels view and cockpit view I don't believe there is any real advantage when it comes to positioning your car. Contrary to popular perception you can't drive well in wheels view by focusing on the wheels, at most it can help by having a quick glance when you apex a corner to assess whether you got as close to the apex as you could have done. Still spatial awareness meant I never had much of a problem in this respect once I switched to cockpit view.

Apart from a few obvious things like chase views better view of the road ahead I think it's all just assumption become fact. Granted however that other advantages are probably something that are impossible to objectively prove or disprove.

Last edited by tailing, Wed 11 Jul 2007, 03:18.

Quote from Dajmin :

This means that those of us who treat the game as if we're racing for real can race together, and those who treat it like a game can also stick together.

Why do you and so many others think it is simply a matter of either one or the other? This is the most disappointing aspect of this whole thing, that so many people can be so narrow minded. So using wheels view automatically means you don't race like it was for real? I raced many league races using wheels view and later using cockpit view and the view made no difference.
Don't mean to appear to be picking on only you mate (just using your post to highlight some points) but the world isn't black and white, there isn't two totally separate and disparate groups within LFS that need to be segregated.
As evidenced in this thread many people don't see that cockpit view is any more realistic than other views on offer so how does that make them less 'hardcore'? Fact is it doesn't but a certain portion of the community has convinced themselves that their opinion is what's right, despite much evidence to the contrary, and consequences be damned. Honestly the nerve that some people would tell others they're playing the wrong game or should go play some arcade game, it's really quite offensive. For someone who wants realistic physics but prefers the chase view where else can they go?

As an aside I don't buy the argument that chase view gives an unfair advantage in the autox arena. Seeing your wheels or the exterior of your car does not magically mean you can place it exactly where you want to.

Ah well, I've had my say. My wheel broke today, maybe I should take the hint

Quote from danowat :

Hehehe, personally, I think it's funny, I wonder just how many "alien" drivers will be brought down to earth with a bump on forced view servers hehehe

I doubt it would affect any "alien" drivers at all. They're good for a reason and the view they use isn't one of them.

I knew it would happen some day but it's a sad day for LFS indeed.

btw for the record I use cockpit view.