the bandito won GT4 at Snett.

https://youtu.be/HnjQ7v2FNR8?t=1295

Quote from G.Metzo :

Hi guys.

I want to make a youtube video about LFS in 2022 , a deep dive if you will, taking a look at the sim , scrutinizing every little aspect of it and trying to get more people to try and play the sim.

I think LFS is absolutely fantastic and even my friend who hasn't played race sims before except a little assetto corsa at my house , praised its physics , its looks and sounds ( for a game that released in 2003 ) and its simplicity , in the sense that you don't have to go through sh@tty convoluted UI elements to grab a car and a track and race or to properly setup your controls etc.

Back to the title now.

My question is what things are present in LFS that are not in other sims?

For example I know that LFS has tyre deformation and that rFactor 2 has tyre deformation too , but almost every other sim like Assetto , iRacing , Raceroom , etc. does not.

What else important or unimportant is present in LFS and is lacking in other sims?

Anything that comes to mind is very welcome as I want to showcase as many of these things as possible.

- George

personality

LFS has a personality. Other sims are rather cold in comparison.

(not sure where to put this)

Just to let you know, and those of a certain LFS vintage will know the name, Will Dendy (Ayrton Senna 87 - joined 2004) will be racing GT4 McLaren in GT Cup

https://www.facebook.com/GTCUP/photos/a.312751372125266/4992099194190437

Last edited by Intrepid, Sat, 18 Jun 2022 11:26.

These are second hand vehicles, most ex-rental and ex-lease cars. They aren't new cars that haven't sold.

who'd have thought trying to bring Indycar to Corby would've ended in failure?

Jokes aside, sad to see

Known Brunning for a long time. Genuinely nice bloke, bloody good driver too.

Quote from bdog922 :

what would it take from the LFS community to kick the devs into the next gear? As from what i have read it seems like your not interested in help, your not very interested in saying whats going on behind the scenes etc. What CAN the community do to help (live for) speed things along, if i was promised/guaranteed a product (Cars, tracks,features, career etc) i would have no problem giving $60 to LFS but as updates are few and far between (better in the last year) i cant even tell myself to get an s3 license because i dont see any desire from the devs to really make progress. If i saw updates like the beamNG group put out i would have NO problem providing funding to help you guys out. I would suggest trying crowd funding to help motivate progress.

It astounds me how people can't grasp the notion that 'funding' isn't the be all and end all. The developers have repeated over and over and over again how the traditional corporate structure is what they were trying to get away from with LFS.

Collecting some kart parts from a mate who was attending the LFS meet up at GP karting in Northampton (2005 or 2006). My main thought was

"who are these weirdos?"

and now I'm one of em.

Quote from MadDenker :

I would like to see many more tracks added. The main reason I drive LFS (a simulator rather than a game) is to get experience on a track before I race there in real life.

Is there any possibility that we can get many more real-world tracks in the game? I can help out as much as possible. The closest and most interesting one for me is Pocono Raceway, which has multiple configurations. I realize it is similar to Kyoto, but again, for me the point is to use the LFS simulator for real-world training. :-)

well, sorry to break it to you but... LFS doesn't have any real tracks bar one which is no longer in racing use. What did you think you were buying?

Quote from lfsrm :

With all due respect, you are not much different from the guy that you are accusing.

How can you people keep saying which tyre model is better than the other ? you are talking like there is only greed and zero patient happening with other development teams, that's totally unfair for those who's been bringing the genra forward.

The point is that despite all the hurrah of constant updates and a subscription based funding model iRacing still hasn't matched Live For Speed in several areas. This constant repetitive drone of complaint about how the LFS developers go about their business is nauseating. They've made themselves so clear on how they work, it really isn't hard to grasp. The value of LFS is unquestionable. I can barely get a month and a decent car/track combo on iRacing for the price of S3.

Quote from BestRex :

It means actually developing the game rapidly, adding new features and content to it. Like it used to be it the first couple of years of development of the LFS. For the last decade (10 years it is) LFS had 1 new track, no new cars, and 1 new feature added - VR support. That's pretty much it. You call this development? I call it a joke.

Ped7g, You sound like one of these aggressive hobos on the streets who not just begging for the money, but demanding for it. Like we owe them, or something.

said the user with a demo licence demanding the developers act in a way that is completely incongruent with their published working motivation?

Also, how many new official tracks have there been for rFactor 1, Richard Burns Rally, Grand Prix Legends, NetKar Pro, GTR recently??? all contemporaries of the initial Live For Speed release, yet where is their 'proper development'?

The only sim comparable to LFS would be iRacing in terms of continual development over such a long period of time... and for that sim to have reached the point it is now a single user would have had to have spent thousands to have access to it fully during that period and even now it's tyre model still isn't as good as LFS in many areas.

Quote from gu3st :

What does properly developed even mean? To maximize income? To live forever? There's plenty of sims that were excellent that have fallen by the wayside and died, unlike LFS that still has a small but committed community.

LFS is still the best racing simulator and does many things correct. The one thing it doesn't do is simulate (much) real content, which is what most people mean when they talk about LFS' content deficencies.

LFS' core has things that other sims still haven't caught up to.

I don't see that as a deficiency. iRacing, Assetto Corsa Competizione, rF2, AM2, Project Cars etc..., to varying degrees, are all merging into essentially the same simulator.

With Live For Speed there is a fantastic base physics model (which for all its 'development' iRacing is yet to surpass imo), but there also a touch of art with it. It's not just stale repetition of what we see in reality with 'official' cars & tracks. It seems like an oxymoron to have a simulator that has artistic qualities but I don't know how else to describe it. But it's what help sets it apart. Out of all the 'proper simulations' Live for Speed is instantly recongisable. Sure you can pick up the visual qualities of each sim that make them recongisable to the trained eye, but Live For Speed is set apart from that. It might be part of the reason for such a dedicated community. South City is OUR city!

Funny thing is when LFS do add real content like Rockingham is stonkingly good.

Last edited by Intrepid, Tue, 28 Apr 2020 06:12.

LFS is the Mudhoney of sim racing

Quote from Chaos :

But there is always a middle way

nope, no there's not.

Imagine writing to your favorite band and saying "I love your work but you haven't released anything for a while. I have a couple of tunes that I reckon you might like to use. It's a good middle way"

Quote from 5tag :

That's capitalism for you. To a lot of people it is completely revolutionary thinking when somebody doesn't make economic growth the number one priority.

While I accept the notion that far too many people fail to grasp the notion that absolute economic growth is not the be all and end all, capitalism itself allows for a multitude of models. LFS exists within a free market model which encourages diversity within a particular sector. So I might got as far as saying it's a lack of appreciation of free market economics that's the problem.

Either way, the developers have made it so abundantly clear how they do things and more importantly why.

I don't really care if you stand behind it. Everything you've described is available on other sims too.

I will try to explain this in terms everyone can understand.

When people moan about LFS's development it is like walking into a niché coffee bar where the owner (ex-Starbucks manager who hated his job) is making coffee exactly the way he wants with passion and love and then telling the owner they should copy Stabucks coz they get more customers. The reason why people don't is because that'd be insane.

We live in a society where people have the freedom to do things exactly how they want. Some people paint by numbers and follow the norm, and others are more unique. I don't really know how to explain this is less complex.

Last edited by Intrepid, Wed, 4 Mar 2020 18:55.

The unique selling point of Live For Speed is that it's not like other sims. The developers have made it abundantly clear their model of business is built upon a structure that allows them freedom to work the way they want and not be weighed down by the constraints of a traditional business model. Hiring people is complex, acquiring licences is complex etc... People act as if the devs haven't worked in that environment and made it clear thats not how they want to do things.

Assetto, rF2, iRacing, Automobilista, Project Cars etc... are all converging into essentially the same simulator because they are all chasing the same thing. Real cars and real scanned tracks won't add much to LFS. What I actually like about LFS is the fact the tracks aren't real because it's adds an element of genuine artistry to the product. Live For Speed, despite its age, is the most unique sim product. It's a quality that should be treasured, not lambasted.

We live in the best time to be alive. We are literally in the top .0001% of humans to have EVER lived with regard to living standards etc...

so I think I'll pass on socialism, I don't want to be turning my garden into a furnace anytime soon. Insanity is trying the same thing again and expecting a different result

Quote from BerdyGaming :

The fact that they have been using that working model for a long time doesn't make it a good way to actually develop games.

... it's a fantastic model for... THEM. It's a really simple thing to understand

I don't think you understand the nature of a creative process and creative people. Scawan and co couldn't have been more explicit in their description of their business and working model.

I think the way people act about this is borderline personality disorder territory. As if spending 25 quid entitles you to question someone business model which has been so clearly defined for the last 15 years.

I do notice that most of these complaints are from people who have never even come close to producing something anywhere near the quality of Live For Speed. The fact it's still being worked on is miraculous and should be celebrated.

The only thing LFS 'needs' to do is is whatever the developers want. The thing that made LFS so great in the first place was the devs doing it their way.

None of us can say with any basis we haven't got our money's worth. It's not like any S3 licence holder is going to be paying any extra money for what will be free updates going forward.

Tried LFS on a very bloody expensive sim set up...

For me, the FFB came out on top compared to every other commercial sim available. It was just absolutely nailed on. The better the system the depth of LFS's qualities present themselves.

Quote from Scawen :

For me, having a good life and plenty of free time to do the things I like is far more important than being rich. If being rich was a high priority there are many other jobs I could have done, and probably would have had to work 9 to 10 hours a day and only have a few holidays a year. But what's the point in that? So I could wear a fancy watch or clothes with logos on them so other people would be impressed? I don't get it. Life has to be about doing the things you like to do, not wasting money on expensive crap to show off to other fools.

Hard to do motorsport if you aren't rich though?

I am very sympathetic tyo your statement, but couldn't help myself.

that's what happens when you drive flat out after the finish line.