Quote from ivo_drifta :

I'm sure there is a way we can help. Or working with you, helping with textures, modelling or something else?

I've been thinking about this for a long time, as I've been working as an industrial designer for a long time and modeling a lot. And I would be happy to offer my help on a non-reimbursable basis. But perhaps it may be problematic for developers, because they will not have authorship of the models or confidence in the authorship of the models of helpers. Roughly speaking they are not responsible for other people as they are not contractually bound to them. Or is that not important?
Although it is possible to put models on publicly available resources with GNU license for example, and with authorship verification for example through modeling on live streams. I, for example, did streams for modeling of my mods, it's not hard for me.
In general, if there is a possibility I could help with modeling and texturing without any demand for benefits.

It's good to hear some news.
Looking forward to testing new physics with new shading on updated tracks. Thanks for the update!

I'm wondering if the update or test patches will be split? I remember it was said that Fern Bay will probably come out in the next separate update after big one, but has it been a long time since, maybe something's changed. Maybe it will be part of one big update with new graphics, all the updated tracks and tire physics?

Quote from Racer Y :

Uh as far as NATO goes. The only real thing I know about them is a part of my tax dollars pays for it.

RT. When we had cable TV all the certain types of channels were numbered together. Like all the sports channels were numbers 23-50 or something like that. Same with News channels. We had CNN, FOX and a whole host of others. Not RT. Where was it? It was in the section of channels in between churches and channels geared for rural farmer types. Weird huh? Why wasn't it with the other news networks? I found it by accident looking for rodeo.

I don't know how US cable TV works.
So I just checked wikipedia. - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RT_(TV_network)

According to RT as of March 2022, the network's feed is carried by 22 satellites and over 230 operators, providing a distribution reach to about 700 million households in more than 100 countries. RT also stated that RT America was available to 85 million households throughout the United States, as of 2012.

In the United States, RT typically pays cable and satellite services to carry its channel in subscriber packages.In 2011, RT was the second most-watched foreign news channel in the United States (after BBC World News), and the number one foreign network in five major U.S. urban areas in 2012. It also rated well among younger Americans under 35 and in inner city areas.

In the UK, the Broadcasters' Audience Research Board (BARB) has included RT in the viewer data it publishes since 2012. According to their data, approximately 2.5 million Britons watched RT during the third quarter of 2012, making it the third most-watched rolling news channel in Britain, behind BBC News and Sky News (not including Sky Sports News). RT was soon overtaken by Al Jazeera English, and viewing figures dropped to about 2.1 million by the end of 2013. For comparison, it had marginally fewer viewers than S4C, the state-funded Welsh language broadcaster, or minor channels such as Zing, Viva and Rishtey.According to internal documents submitted for Kremlin review, RT's viewership amounted to less than 0.1 percent of Europe's television audience, except in Britain, where 2013 viewership was estimated at 120,000 persons per day. According to the leaked documents, RT was ranked 175th out of 278 channels in Great Britain in May 2013, or fifth out of eight cable news channels. In August 2015, RT's average weekly viewing figure had fallen to around 450,000 (0.8 percent of the total UK audience), 100,000 fewer than in June 2012 and less than half that of Al Jazeera English. In March 2016, the monthly viewing was figure 0.04%.

Latin America is the second most significant area of influence for internet RT (rt.com). In 2013, RT ascended to the ranks of the 100 most watched websites in seven Latin American countries.

A Pew Research survey of the most popular news videos on YouTube in 2011–12 found RT to be the top source with 8.5 percent of posts, 68 percent of which consisted of first-person video accounts of dramatic worldwide events, likely acquired by the network rather than created by it. In 2013, RT became the first television news channel to reach 1 billion views on YouTube. In 2014, its main (English) channel was reported have 1.4 million subscribers.

Followers
In 2013, RT became "the first news network to surpass 1 billion views on YouTube". As of shortly after the invasion of Ukraine and blocking of RT by tech companies, RT's "main Facebook channel has more than 7 million followers" (some of which are located in Europe where the channel is blocked). RT's YouTube account had "roughly 4.65 million followers in English and 5.94 million in Spanish".

so it's there and it's quite big

Quote from Racer Y :

Do you keep up with American news much? It seems Congressman Matt Gaetz brought up Switching support and having Russia.... Yep... join NATO. Only I don't think his reasoning is correct at this time. Putin & Company meddled in our elections and now we got a few of his cheerleaders in office. I should elaborate more on this, but I have to go to work.

So you have no facts to prove that NATO wanted to admit Russia into its ranks I asked, okay.

Matt Gaetz is just a Republican far-right congressman, he is not affiliated with NATO, nor can he influence it. It's just a statement to appeal to his audience. You can hear all sorts of opinions among such politicians, including those in favor of Russia.

Even outside of politics, many far right activists in the US support Russia because they are used to doing the opposite of what CNN says, or they just fell for RT propaganda.
RT does a lot of foreign propaganda, promotes various conspiracy theories, and also dispels CNN propaganda, which is very much to the liking of the right in the US. Also RT invites ultra right-wing US dissidents and any influential persons who are no longer on US TV channels for one reason or another, such as Carlson Tucker. And that's why many right-wingers take everything RT says on faith. The far-right simply hates CNN, and believes anyone who criticizes them.

Quote from Racer Y :

Well it was a news story. Just a news story. Nothing to shape opinion or control the masses.Just someone stating something. Just like the triple homicide story on the other page. They didn't drill it in on us. It was replaced by the next day's news once it became yesterday's news. It was something I read and just so happened to remember. And I remember back then as us being more worried about jihad than a Former KGB pencil pusher and a psycho caterer.

I have already explained earlier in this thread that I am not the one using propaganda here as sources of information. Because they don't have a goal of bringing truthful information to their readers. And almost any media nowadays is propaganda to a certain extent. Pro Russian sources are trying to promote their agenda. Western sources are trying to promote their own. the only difference is that there is generally no state propaganda there, and the media can compete for viewers. But in reality it doesn't make much difference, because in our country the state runs the propaganda, and in the west the propaganda runs the state.

And how can you say that it was not drill it in you if you repeat this source without any grounding or facts. Right now I don't even care what source it is, it's important to me what the article is based on. What matters are the concrete facts that prove that NATO wanted Russia as a member. (I asked the same thing last time)
Without it, at best case scenario it's just some journalist's opinion. I could argue against it with my own opinion. The only difference is that I have arguments and facts in favor of my opinion.

Quote from Racer Y :

But who said you couldn't cite propaganda? What propaganda are you trying to cite? I thought you were just putting out your point of view.
What is Steven Segal doing anyways?

I said.
There's no point in exchanging links to propaganda, or exchanging viewpoints (because it can be based on propaganda). It is important to exchange theses\points of view\opinion that are supported by arguments and facts, which is aimed at understanding the causes and effects of what is happening. (And I think the NATO is one of the key issues here.) Otherwise, it just turns into meaningless chatter.
What points of view? We can just skip this stage and go straight to the exchange of memes and jokes.
What difference will it make? At least it'll be funnier.

Okay, let's say we exchange points of view, then what? How does that change anything? For example, I can agree that my opinion is wrong, but to do that I need arguments in favor of the other opinion that are stronger than my arguments.

Quote from Racer Y :

My main interest of the war itself is the end game and the aftermath.

That's true, but I don't see how we can discuss the future. We can discuss the past and the present. Discussing the future looks to me like fortune-telling on Magic 8-Ball.

Quote from Flame CZE :

I think you should use the rim editor to model the cross-section of the rim excluding the spokes, then use the spoke editor to only model the spokes excluding the outer rim.

This is not the best solution. This is a oversimplification when it comes to real rims. I don't know how it is seen in the west, but we have a saying that rims are 50% of car beauty (some even saying 80%).
When I was modeling my mods, I studied the theory of rims engineering. In rim design, there is a rim profile. This is an important constructive visualization of the rim that helps when modeling it. And besides that, it was just fun to study (as exampe 1,2). So the rim profile has elements like flange\bead, hump, drop center. And flange\bead cannot be accomplished in rim editor.

You can see that on many rims the flange\bead part (part that adheres to the rubber on the inside) has a curvature of a certain slope and thickness from the tire that forms the visible edge, all this affects the appearance of the rim. This can only be achieved by creating the rim yourself. And when I modeled the rim that I liked based on the parameters of the rim profile I noticed that the bead part starts to go through it, even though the bead is on the rubber in the right place. So it just does not fit the wheel in LFS because of this default non-removable edge. Even though the rim is modeled to the correct specs of rim profile. It was not very pleasant to reduce the diameter of the entire rim because of this, and lose some of its beauty.

Last edited by Aleksandr_124rus, Mon, 10 Jul 2023 16:18.

This is a great update, hub object is a great feature to do different rims in configurations.
But unfortunately the default non-removable edge-points (in edit rim) make the variability of rims much smaller, and rims need to be shrunk because of that. It would be great to be able to remove these edges if its possible.

Quote from paket42x :

If u play LFS in a daily basis or spend atleast 2-3 evenings a week visiting online servers, u will see no words like "Russian monkeys" or any real racism/nacism neither.
I see u just trying to abuse that kind of stuff, and thats not cool tbh.

I don't care what you think, as long as you didn't come into the thread there was a reasoned discourse here.
I've literally seen these and similar expressions myself in chats of different servers, as I described it here, playing LFS much less frequently. Since the beginning of this thread, I've sent 3-4 people a link to this thread who have made similar statements.

Quote from paket42x :

Speaking of not being cool, u still didnt manage to answer me.
You are ready for insults and "ass firing" but not capable enough to answer one simple question by yourself? Why should i repeat it 3 times in a row?

I answered you twice, besides the answer is in the first post. I don't care if you don't want to accept it.

But I see that all you have to do is ruin a reasonable discussion, in fact you're just now provoking another pointless arguing, probably just to complain to the developers again or just to talk nonsense for nothing.

As long as there's no substantiated comments and reasonable questions that you really want to know the answer, I will not answer you.

Quote from paket42x :

May i ask u again, whats the purpose of your actions here in this thread?

Originally this thread was created so that those who speak negatively against Russians (or Ukrainians or whoever) would do it here with argumentation so that we could discuss their views and perhaps dispel some misunderstandings or false views. Every time I find messages like that in the server chat, I send a link to this thread so we can discuss it here and not on the public server where it doesn't belong. And I'm still waiting for these people to show up and post what they think.

As long as they don't, this thread is a search for the causes and effects of what's going on. And I think it's valuable that people with different opinions can speak up and discuss it. In addition, we discuss current events in the war, or as with the Prigozhin mutiny, for example. As has been the case on all pages up to 9.

The insults on my part are only aimed at pointing out the lack of argumentation on the opposing side and raising the level of discourse. Yes, sometimes you can do it through insults, some people only understand such language. But I try it to keep within limits. At my own account I never take to heart any negativity that is on the Internet. I think it's extremely stupid to take it personally from the Internet from people you don't know. In my opinion, swearing and insults on the Internet exist as a form of attracting attention or increasing the emotional level of your words. And I don't see anything wrong with that. Freedom of expression our opinions in this thread is far more valuable than shutting it down for insults.

Quote from paket42x :

I asked u about this thread in vk.com like a half of year ago, and the answer was kinda like "ull never understand" or basically "let me say i was drunk so u will find this argument ok as u always do"
Could u please answer now what is the purpose of your actions in this thread except of spilling negativity?

You ask a question and quote a text that answers that exact question...I have nothing more to add to this text. Do I need to copy-paste it back to you? Or maybe you should just read what you're quoting?
Or the purpose of this thread is also described in its first post. If you really want to know the answer to your question, just read it.

But I understand that you don't really want to know the answer, and that's why you're asking this pointless question. You just want to start arguing again, just because I'm the author of the thread. And when im respond to you with the same words back, you'll run to complain about profanity to the developers just like it was now. As if they have nothing better to do than to check off-topic threads...

I don't care if you don't respect me and provoke a cussing in this thread. But at least respect the time of the developer of the game you yourself have been playing for years.

Quote from Scawen :

Due to a reported post I've had to come here and read a few posts, pretty absurd stuff and way off topic. Some plain hurling of insults. I can't see that leaving the thread open can really lead to anything positive.

Aleksandr, shall I close the thread?

From the parts I read earlier and from what I see now, no-one has expressed any sensible reason why invading established countries can be a good thing, in the absence of any immediate threat. Illegal invasions, unsupported by global governments, must not be allowed. No matter if it's Bush, Blair, Putin, or countless other warmongers in countries more distant that they are not foremost in my mind. Warmongers all, trying to be tough and mainly causing destruction, death and misery, only making the world a worse place.

There may be validity in reasons given for invasions, such as a dictator in Iraq, religious fundamentalists running the show in Afghanistan, and no doubt there are Nazis and other racists in Ukraine (as there are in Russia too, and also in UK and USA and other places, by the way). But none of these reasons justifies an invasion. Such problems must be sorted out from within. This is pretty much indisputable.

I agree with what you are saying. But I don't think this thread should be closed. Originally this thread was created so that those who speak negatively against Russians (or Ukrainians or whoever) would do it here with argumentation so that we could discuss their views and perhaps dispel some misunderstandings or false views. Every time I find messages like that in the server chat, I send a link to this thread so we can discuss it here and not on the public server where it doesn't belong. And I'm still waiting for these people to show up and post what they think.

As long as they don't, this thread is a search for the causes and effects of what's going on. And I think it's valuable that people with different opinions can speak up and discuss it. In addition, we discuss current events in the war, or as with the Prigozhin mutiny, for example. As has been the case on all pages up to 9.

The insults on my part are only aimed at pointing out the lack of argumentation on the opposing side and raising the level of discourse. Yes, sometimes you can do it through insults, some people only understand such language. But I try it to keep within limits. At my own account I never take to heart any negativity that is on the Internet. I think it's extremely stupid to take it personally from the Internet from people you don't know. In my opinion, swearing and insults on the Internet exist as a form of attracting attention or increasing the emotional level of your words. And I don't see anything wrong with that. Freedom of expression our opinions in this thread is far more valuable than shutting it down for insults.

Last edited by Aleksandr_124rus, Tue, 4 Jul 2023 14:07.

Stupid Z's, can't say anything but ass firing. There nothing new in the lack of argumentation from them, but I love looking at those burning assh*les.

Last edited by Aleksandr_124rus, Mon, 3 Jul 2023 17:39.

Omg... "What are you saying,that you left-handed homosexual?"

Racon, mow you understand who I have to deal with here, he don't understand even the simplest analogies...

Quote from Racon :

PS: sorry for the thread hijack Alexey

lol, this is not my thread, this thread is for everyone.

btw illness by defenition is an unhealthy condition of body or mind in which the person is feeling unwell.

So homosexuality is not a illness by definition.. Calling something a illness out of your own bias only points to your complexes.

In general I've heard many people from Russia and who present themselves as masculine man who also have an immediately understandable manner of communicating, whom we usually call "bydlo", fixate on how they could anal f**k someone they don't like, and after that talk about hating gays, which is a typical manifestation of latent homosexuality that they can't accept because of their complexes.
And there are a lot of people like that, every other person with a bullheaded attitude says things like that.

Quote from MousemanLV :

Ya already got civil war going on in Russia. This nation is going downhill ever since.

"going on"? What do you mean? The mutiny of the Prigozhin did not last more than twenty-four hours.
If you mean the red-white civil war 1918-1923, why this starting point? There was a chain of events of two revolutions and the Bolsheviks taking power. That is the real reason. The rise to power of a misanthropic idiallogy. The Civil War is the battle of the whites for their freedom and against the tyranny of the reds, i.e., the Bolsheviks.

The Soviet Union, which was trying to create a new Soviet man, and unfortunately they succeeded in many ways, and today's events are partly due to this reason. Because the people in power in Russia are Soviet people. They are not used to appreciating human life. But they value their own lives, and that is why we have the highest corruption rates in the world and an authoritarian state.

Edit: And what is your purpose in this thread if you are not answering questions (as in page 5), but just making statements on this forum thread?
This forum is for mutual discussion. Answering, atleast on questions is good manners.

Last edited by Aleksandr_124rus, Sun, 2 Jul 2023 10:02.

Quote from Racer Y :

Uh... I'm not a secret government agent.... LOL you know what it means when a politician says trust me?

What? I was talking about not trusting politicians in the context of what Putin and Clinton said about Russia joining the NATO.

Quote from Racer Y :

I found this out reading the newspaper, riding a bus on my way to work. This was like right after or at the tail end of the Balkans wars. They didn't grandstand it like with Finland and Sweden. Probably cause at the same time that was going on, the internet was happening. Nobody cared. We were too concerned with how to get our computers off of dial up.

Do you really consider the article in the newspaper as an argument?
Why can't I then cite Russian propaganda as an argument?

And what is the evidentiary basis for these claims? How can we talk about an allegation that has not been made publicly, but was in your paper?

Everyone's choice to play in the LFS or not, no one will beg to stay here.

But why do you care so much about the popularity of the LFS? Shouldn't we appreciate the games for its own value. Not for how others value it by popularity or something else. Whats the point?

If we are talking about the success of the project and measure it with popularity, okay.. but where does any desire to play or not play LFS because of this?

I agree with issue about the online, but I hope that the upcoming update and the possible release of the trackeditor can change this.

Unfortunately updates are take longer than someone would like, but there are only 2 people working on the game, and technically they could do not do it, and just sell the game with the current content for the current price, but they still working on the game simply because they appreciate this project and the community so much that they continue to do it.

I see no reason to answer the questions of a person who does not answer my questions.

Quote from Scawen :

The camera rotates around the point the mouse starts at when you press two buttons, or hold the middle button. Do you know about that? It's not random. I'm talking about the modeller. The vehicle editor doesn't have a ray check on the vehicle.

Again, in the modeller, point the mouse at the exact point you want to rotate around. Press two mouse buttons or middle button, then move mouse. The rotation should be around that exact point. I haven't experienced a rotation point constantly randomly moving around.

Oh, I never thought of it that way. I thought that it happens randomly, maybe cuz I had years of experience in blender, and I could not even think that it can work like that, for me it was not intuitive.

Now I have tried to rotate the mouse around the click area, and now I understand that it can be convenient. But still if there will be time it would be nice to have a button just for the modeller to move the camera to the selected triangle.

But really it is not so important, now majority of players is waiting for an update with graphics and physics in LFS, I would prefer that all efforts would go to on that update. Although it's up to you what to do in the first place.
You, unlike some other developers, continue to support the game for decades and listen to the players about the next updates. Thank you for that

The only significant inconvenience left in the modeller, (in a year and a half, I still couldn't get used to it) This is the inconveniently working center of camera rotation, it constantly randomly moves every time you move the camera. Every time you have to adjust the camera in a convenient way every time it flies somewhere, this is inconvenient. Since we often work in a big camera proximity to mesh, I would like to have a function to assign the center of rotation to a selected triangle, like we now have with the origin, object and eye buttons, and that when you rotate and move the camera the center of rotation would not move randomly. In blender, there is a dot button on the numpad for this. This working perfectly. Center of rotation works predictably and conveniently when camera moves. I would like something like this.

It's important to understand that I'm not justifying Putin's actions, I'm just trying to understand cause and effect.

In Russian propaganda to justify the war they pour bullshit in the ears of the audience. Denazification, Demetalization, Occupation of historical lands. Saving the Russians. All of this is nonsense aimed at the mass audience. The Kremlin doesn't care about Nazis or Russians. Although I can break down these reasons point by point.

1. Demilitarization. The level of miltarization has only increased since the war began, now almost all Western countries are funding the Ukrainian war campaign. If we seriously count this as a reason to start the war, the Kremlin has ****ed up big time here.

2 Denazification. The only reason to glorify Nazis and denazify Ukraine today is Russia. Azov was created in 2014 as a reaction to Russia's actions in Crimea and Donbass. And after the outbreak of a full-fledged war in '22 in Ukraine, which has spoken mostly Russian all its life, the Russian language is perceived as hostile. The whole society began to be nationalized around itself, which was not the case before '22.

3. Saving the Russians. This is complete nonsense. In 2020 only 40 people were killed. and for the entire year 2021 77 people died in Ukraine as a result of military action (pic 1 even from a pro-Russian source), that includes civilians and military. But most of these deaths were from mines left behind, in particular the "Butterfly Mine" that took most of the lives. Of the 77, only seven were civilians. And it is not a fact that all of them were Russians. Because even in the DNR there was and still is a significant number of people who consider themselves Ukrainians. And after the start of the war in 2022, the number has not even gone into the thousands. There were tens if not hundreds of thousands of people killed, most of whom were Russians. In Mariupol alone there were 430 thousand people. According to various estimates, from 20 to 50% of the population was killed. And this is only one city that was affected by this inhumane war. This war does not save the lives of Russians, it just kills them.

4. Occupation of land. What is the point of owning this land? If we are talking about the land we must understand what the benefit of obtaining this land. This land does not have any benefit for Russia, and for many years this will be a loss-making region due to the restoration of a huge amount of infrastructure, because whole towns and villages were destroyed in ruins. This will be a huge item in the budget, and no benefit. And if Ukraine, based on the results of the war, gets more reparations, it will be a total failure for russia.

Each of these points makes no sense as a justification for starting the war. That is why I am trying to find the real reason. And yes NATO is the only thing that looks even slightly reasonable. The problem with Ukraine's accession to NATO is purely geopolitical. And it is not even about rockets. The entire territory between eastern Europe is flat. And if the territory of Ukraine will be the border of nato, it means direct passage for the military, and the front in case of conflict will be much easier to move.
But as I said before it didn't make sense to start a conflict in 2022 either. It would have looked much more legitimate in 2014. There were relatively large casualties from military action in 2014. There really were Nazis in power in Ukraine in 2014. But not in 2022 and not in 2021 or 2020.

Since Z people are too dumb to think for themselves and that's why they can't answer questions, I've prepared a couple more arguments in their favor. And it even more sensible things than propaganda feeds people cuz it are based on facts, but they may be disputed:
1. Ukraine has publicly stated that it is not going to comply with the Minsk agreements (agreement on conflict resolution) because they believe that this document is directed against Ukraine. But in spite of this they signed it...
2. In 2021 Nato gave Ukraine weapons and in January 2022 Nato gave 170 tons of weapons to Ukraine.
3. Five days before the war, Zelensky announced a revision of the Budapest memorandum treaty to cancel it. (to start developing nuclear weapons)
All of these arguments can easily be smashed if you think about it a little and that is why I don't use them. But I'll leave it to you.

My opinion has not changed since the beginning of this war, I believe that the beginning of this war is not just a mistake but a crime. A crime in consequence of which many people die every day. But Ukrainians defend their home from invaders. They have a purpose. And only Russians die for nothing. And it is necessary to get out of it by any means. I'm sure that Russian propaganda can play that too. They have been masterfully bullshitting their viewers for 20 years, turning them into idiots who can't even answer simple questions, like some people here on this forum thread. The propaganda also will be able to convince them that they should have withdrawn the troops for exampe. They will swallow that too.

Some will probably get a little upset, a little bit of a struggle, but they will swallow it, because what else can they do they don't have their own head. They only have a TV instead of a head.

Last edited by Aleksandr_124rus, Tue, 27 Jun 2023 06:21.

Quote from Racer Y :

So Prigozhin is going to Belarus. What does that really mean? At the most, it means he's been sidelined without getting executed.

Basically yes. It turned out that Prigozhin and Lukashenka were old friends, apparently for this reason Prigozhin made contact with him and managed to agree.

Quote from Racer Y :

But that's just Prigozhin. All this has a long term negative effect on Putin's regime. It won't take long for Kadyrov to figure out he doesn't have to be a Putin cheerleader to get Chechnia and that if he continues to do so, he'll never get it. Western agitation? Since we can't meddle in elections that are already rigged....

This is one of the possible scenarios. But I doubt it. And there are at least 2 reasons why, we don't know how strong Kadyrov's troops are. They could not achieve a single goal in the war with Ukraine. They became famous as TikTok troops, recording videos in TikTok without doing anything contrctive in the war. This is no longer the army of Ichkeria, which won the first Chechen war. This is the akhmat army. there are two big differences.
The second reason is that Kadyrov is systematically killing supporters of a free Ichkeria. Many of them had to go abroad, and even there many of them were found and killed by Kadyrov. Even the famous blogger Tumso Abdurakhmanov, a supporter of free Ichkeria, was attempted to murder. Maybe its just a sideshow for Putin to show his loyalty. Or maybe these are his true views. Ramzan Kadyrov has been cooperating with Putin, who killed his father, almost for 20 years now in spite of the Jihad agains Russia that his father had declared.

Quote from Racer Y :

You know the funny thing about all of this? It was all this paranoia about NATO expansion was stupid. NATO? At the time we did want to expand.

But it did expanded. And that's what's important.
Just imagine the reverse situation, what if Russia created a new ussr, recruited new members in defensive alliance for "universal security" and it would move west and start taking on canada and mexico and put missile systems there aimed at "defense against external threats". How would the U.S. react? They would freak out. And most likely World War 3 would started.
That's pretty much what happened when the USSR wanted to put missiles on Cuba. Legally they are two independent countries, they could do it. But Kennedy threatened to "sink the soviet ships and if that leads to World War III then so be it" if the USSR did it.
So why should Russia act differently?

Quote from Racer Y :

We wanted Russia and the former Soviet republics to be a part of NATO. You heard that right. We wanted Russia to be a member state. We had a much more serious threat at the time. Islamic Fundamentalism. Weird how that all changed.

In the 90s-00s, Russia didn't pay too much attention to European countries because it was struggling for existence itself, the economy was in huge crisis, and 2 wars with Chechnya. Though Putin's opinion was always clear on this topic. And according to him back in 2000 he was not against joining NATO, and he even tried to join Nato, but "NATO wouldn't let us in". And there are two a bit conflicting opinions from Putin and Clinton.

Clinton had previously mentioned that he had offered his Russian counterparts Boris Yeltsin and Vladimir Putin the possibility of Russian membership in NATO. "All this time we kept the doors of NATO open for Russia to join, as I made clear to Yeltsin and then to his successor Vladimir Putin," he emphasized.

Putin also recalled conversations with Clinton about Russia possibly joining NATO. During the 42nd president's most recent visit to Russia, he asked him how America would respond to Moscow joining the alliance. "I will not reveal all the details of this conversation, but the reaction to my question looked, let's say, very restrained, and how the Americans really reacted to this possibility is actually seen in practical steps with regard to our country" - Vladimir Putin

But I'm not used to trusting the words of politicians, I think if NATO wanted to see Russia as a member, it could publicly declare it. Just like it was recently with Sweden and Finland. But there was nothing like that.

Prigozhin stopped the movement of PMC "Wagner" in Russia after talks with Lukashenko.

"The talks lasted all day. As a result, we came to an agreement on the inadmissibility of unleashing a bloodbath on the territory of Russia. Yevgeny Prigozhin accepted the offer of President Alexander Lukashenko to stop the movement of armed men of Wagner in Russia and to take further steps to de-escalate tension.
At the moment there is an absolutely advantageous and acceptable variant of de-escalation of the situation on the table with the security guarantees for the Wagner PMC fighters," said the press service of the President of Belarus. Alexander Lukashenko.

"Now is the moment when blood may be spilled, therefore. Understanding the responsibility of what Russian blood will be spilled on one side. We're turning our columns around. And we are leaving in the opposite direction to the field camps according to the plan" Evgeny Prigozhin

Probably one of the best scenarios it could have ended

The Russian Foreign Ministry warned Western countries against any hints that the domestic situation in Russia could be used to achieve their Russophobic goals amid the attempted armed uprising.

In the Lipetsk region they are cutting the highways to stop the movement of the "Wagner" PMC convoy - media
Earlier, Lipetsk Governor Artamonov reported that the equipment was moving through the region.

A huge convoy of military vehicles of Akhmat troops stands at the entrance to Rostov, (pic 1) which is now occupied by the Wagner PMC. Big fights are expected for the city, people are piled up at the train stations and at the exits from the city.

There is also the possibility that the Wagner could seize the nuclear arsenal, for example, there are rumors that Wagner soldiers were seen near facility 375, which is a nuclear warhead storage facility. (probably a fake, but who knows).

"If Russia's nuclear arsenal is "under the control of bandits," the whole world will be on the brink of destruction" - Medvedev. (deputy chairman of the Security Council of Russia since 2020. Medvedev also served as the president of Russia between 2008 and 2012 and as the prime minister of Russia between 2012 and 2020.)

At this time, the Belarusian opposition is trying to take advantage of the conflict within Russia.

Svetlana Tihanovskaya and the Kalinovsky regiment issued statements calling on Belarusians to prepare to liberate their homeland
In their appeals, they urged the Belarusian military not to get involved in the civil war that had started in Russia. Tikhanovskaya noted that Belarusians have their own country and they should fight exclusively for its good. Both sides noted that the turmoil in Russia gives the Belarusians a unique chance to kick the Russian military out of their land and get rid of Lukashenko's tyranny.
Kalinovsky's regiment, fighting on the side of Ukraine and composed of Belarusians, appealed to all its supporters in Belarus to prepare for uprising and wait for the signal. Tikhanovskaya promised to gain international support for the struggle of the Belarusians to liberate their homeland.

Military equipment is already being brought to the entrances to Moscow. (pic 2) For example here you can see a BTR and a soldiers with sack reinforcements and a grenade launcher.

Last edited by Aleksandr_124rus, Sat, 24 Jun 2023 15:39.