Quote from TenTimes :

Don't
[COLOR=Red]R[COLOR=Black]eally have the
[COLOR=Red]I[COLOR=Red][COLOR=Black]ntelligence
[COLOR=Red]For anything more
[COLOR=Red]T[/COLOR][COLOR=Red][COLOR=Black]echnical

That's not really helping anything. You should be able to drift just fine (if you are capable of good driving) in a realistic sim anyway. And LFS allows for that just fine. Getting it right will become progressively more satisfactory as LFS evolves and incorporates more damage and so on.

Quote from tucker_98 :

Clutches braking, no xrt, rev limiters, no color change

Yeah, if you don't like realism, you're probably better off spending your money on something else: GT5 or Forza 2 or something to that effect that has realisticish handling but without the rawness of a sim.

Quote :

deleting of all set ups... The list goes on.

The naming format was changed (with good reason - servers were having troubles with it). It's one of those sooner rather than later things. There's a tool that can fix it in the Unofficial Addons section though.

Quote from XCNuse :

Threads seperated, please keep this thread remaining on topic of thread title.

Just lock it: it's served its purpose. Now all the people read the title and the first post and promptly proceed to post "OMG u cheep n00b lolz stfu" which is no more mature than the opening post.

Quote from porschedrifter :

In the demo it would be wise to display the drifting aspect as well as the gripping aspect.

So all the drifters have a reason to pay for LFS, just like you did?

The XRT was removed because all you ungrateful sods just used it for years and years on and didn't pay. (No disrespect intended to S2 licensed drifters). You have only yourself to blame. The FBM was added indeed to display LFS more completely using a car with slicks and downforce.

Quote from porschedrifter :

It's because of the 17 other cars and other tracks!!

Was it because of this appeal that you bought LFS? Oh wait.

The XRT is still in LFS, I assure you.

LOL! Nice one!

Quote from pearcy_2k7 :

If scrawen based what he puts in the game on what he drove in real life like the FBM, maybe he got it wrong as the owners of the car will be telling him to clutch on up AND down shifts, to help the cltuch a little, no point abusing it when theres no need to.

So I suppose you're a race engineer for some formula 1 team or at least drive a race car with a sequential transmission? Because I specifically remember reading a post by someone on this forum who has driven a real Formula BMW and he said that BMW train you to only use the clutch in the rain.

Quote from joen :

Patch Y seems to be the LFS equivalent of natural selection.

I shall quote you in my signature.

Looks like LFS will be dropping some excess fat in its community. Good, I say. Anyone who can't be bothered to lift their foot off the gas for a moment to change gear shouldn't be playing LFS. Anyone who can't jab the throttle on a downshift shouldn't be playing LFS.

As for the tyres: before you could use R2s on GTR cars in endurance races, making the other options obsolete. Now you have some hotlapping/short stint tyres and some race tyres. Fit the right ones and drive. Oh, you can't set WR pace in a race because you have to take care of your tyres or drive on a harder compound? Boo, hoo. It's not all about constantly trying to beat your pb. It's about competetiveness over long distances. The GTR cars are meant for long distances.

Every physics patch, ever, has resulted in people going "it's too this, it's too that". And they have always been wrong: LFS has never had a bad patch.

Thanks for another great release! Keep up the amazing work (after taking a well-deserved break )!

Quote from Ball Bearing Turbo :

I'll just sign for Anton, even though he's sleeping I know he won't mind.

Thanks! I'm in indeed. I dunno how much the petition will achieve though.

I updated that LX6 set somewhat, to cure the natural understeer from the springs. It's made a huuuge difference. Within 5 laps of putting the final touches on it, I did a 1.20.63 with sectors for a .40, and I'm sure there's another 3 tenths in the last sector alone. So I'm confident it will do a 19 in the right hands.

OT: unseen - BEST AVATAR EVER.

Quote from Juls :

Same thing here. Two weeks ago I used 6600GT and got around 60-80 fps with a large grid (patch X10). Now I have 8600GT (other card died) and it is slower whatever settings I use (in game and in nvidia drivers).

6600GT here, (3.0GHz P4 64bit, 512MB DDR400 so the rest of the machine is hardly to notch) and I get 90fps at 1280x1024 with 2x AA and 2x AF. Around 40 with 6 AI on the grid so I have no problems. Try to clean up your system up a bit an optimize the settings in Graphics (don't render things in the mirror if you don't need them, adjust the LODs a bit and so on). I've actually not tested any of the other tracks since the patch (I love the new SO and BL too much ) but I was getting the same FPS everywhere else before the patch.

Also, it's possible that the updated tracks strain your system more than the old ones and your GPU is overheating. Clean your GPU fan - I had that problem a while back.

Quote from J.B. :

Are you sure about that? Which wheel has more longitudinal force on it really depends on the speeds of the wheels compared to each other. It can go both ways. Usually I'd say a stiffer diff will cause more understeer both on power and coast.

But I agree that locked diffs need to be banished back to hell, together with understeer inducing brake balance.

I think cars with low power locking factors are likely to resist returning from a slide more than those with high locking factors but under normal driving conditions you'd get more oversteer just over the limit with a high power locking factor. My experience in LFS confirms this.

I'll speak to Todd about the actual physics behind it. I know that the higher the locking factor the higher the torque bias ratio though - and that's the limiting factor, the ratio of
Torque on the outside wheel : Torque on the inside wheel
can't exceed the TBR. I have no idea how the maths behind diffs works up to this point though.

That's regarding the physical safety of the track itself. Pavements are now within the steel barriers so you can't clip one and be flipped over - like real life city tracks. Nothing to do with the actual physics engine.

Edit: Beaten.

Gee, shall I get the ruler out?

Quote from Flotch :

Unfair advantage???

OK, unnatural advantage: the car shouldn't be that fast with the locked diff. It's exploiting the physics engine. And that just ruins LFS for me. Some want to be the fastest at whatever cost. I'd rather sacrifice half a second (boohoo) and have more fun while driving. Priorities.

Last edited by axus, Tue 18 Dec 2007, 07:59.

Someone posted a Blackwood set for the XRT (that I didn't like much). So here's my own crack at one.

Flotch - where's the fun in driving a car? I dunno about you but I quite like it . And IMO exploiting LFS' unfinished physics engine to gain an a unfair advantage is no more fun than driving Need For Speed.

EDIT: See updated XRT setup here.

Last edited by axus, Wed 2 Jan 2008, 19:03. Reason : Removing outdated setup

Yeah but we us people that are using proper setups are probably having twice the fun and we'll be having the last laugh when the physics gets fixed. Do you play LFS to have fun in a realistic way or to show that you can be fastest in a flawed system?

Here's the promised FBM setup. I've done a 1.06.63 with it - I'm sure there's another few tenths in there though.

Flotch - as someone posted though around high coast locking factors, people tend to use weird suspension that results in the inside rear lifting in the corners... which results to the engine bogging down with a looser diff, and thus awkward handling. I was playing with an XRT set just yesterday and it worked fine... wasn't quite refined yet but getting there.

Quote from Riders Motion :

I'm using 27% Power Lock / 29 % Coast Lock and 60mn Preload. Is this any good on XRT? I'm real sorry, I enjoyed locked diff and never tried anything else so I'm a bit idiotic to this part of a setup now...

Post the setup and I (and I'm sure some others) will give it a spin and tweak it a bit later to see if we can improve it.

Well, that's not a permanent solution to the problem - a permanent solution would arise from tyre physics improvements (I'm pretty sure). I was hoping for it to be in this patch but that doesn't seem to be the case.

For the time being all we can do is form a little discussion here, sharing realistic setups with one-another so we can enjoy LFS more. Or sharing revelations with regards to what makes those horrible setups work and tips on how to arrive at a better (not necessarily faster) set from there. After all, given the current state of physics, it is a lot more challenging to put a "real" setup together rather than exploiting the physics engine.

In the mean time, I encourage everyone who's sick of locked diffs and high coast locking factors to post their favourite seupts here and maybe we can eventually have enough "good" setups to not worry about being off-pace. I've got a decent FBM setup for SO Chicane that I'm tweaking a bit and I hope to put it up later today.