Quote from Scawen :

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Sounds nice to me. But regarding the hotlap tables, if the new tires for some of the cars are 5mm thinner, I suppose the times done previously by the faster guys won't be reached in this new version (if that matters).
NB: classic FZR being quicker than XRR is only due to people using autoclutch (or worse 😁), as if you want using the FZR with the clutch, good luck trying to catch a good/medium driver with an XRR 😉

Last edited by Scawen, Sun 14 Feb 2021, 21:11. Reason : removed long quote

Quote from THE WIZARD DK :

U22: can downshift gears in FZR/XRR/UFR but still not in XFR/FXR while having gas on. but its really nice on XRR to be able to . but still hoping for magic to happen with FXR/XFR. with FXR its like "it wants" to shift but it doesnt quite do it.

when in "default" mode and selecting a setup using R4´s(front+rear)
its almost as good a skating with a loved one on local lake on valentines day.
in Alternate mode this do not apply

It's just because of sequential gearbox, so intended to behave like this
Edit : too slow, fighting with phone correcting my text in french

knobbly tires speaking : it is indeed better for the XRR
(it is still madness)
GJ

NB : still the warning for wrong the tire choice appearing with automatic load of the track when you have selected some Rx tires on ... a Rx track ... if by chance you can find where it is coming from

Last edited by Flotch, Fri 12 Feb 2021, 22:41.

I have just tested XRR (with Rx/Drift setting) with autoclutch, and the clutch is engaged for a time really really quick, far quicker than for the FZR for example ... is that intentional ?

Quote from Scawen :

Test Patch U21:
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Graphics:

Avoid upward lighting related to ground colour in internal views
...

wow ! finally !!! Glad of this fix

owned
but seeing the laptime, he was obviously not using rallyx tires

Quote from Scawen :

Thanks for the testing and feedback.

It's interesting to hear that the narrower tyres can work well with reduced power classes.

it is the classic drawback of the current tire physics model : even on a straight line, the downforce make the tires to almost heat up (what is actually the case with the Rx/Drift config with R2 tires, more than the classic wider tires that may loose few °c on long straights) ... so less power is obvioulsy helping regarding this aspect ...
But rallycross speaking, the GTR would need 100hp more to match the real counterparts (not sure the tires would follow)

Quote from kagurazakayukari :

Lastest thought： I think only no downforce can save these slim tyres… each tyre now have to handle nearly 150% of its original force…

indeed, the R2 tires are not suited at all anymore (did not test the other compounds, as I was more interested in street/Rx tires )...

Quote from martin18 :

Just so we are clear U29/U20 has 265 rear in XRR right? And u17/u18 had 275 rear?
The way I see is my Mazda Mx5 has 215 rear tires 200 tread wear tires and that car weights roughly 1040KG with roughly 130BHP and it can spin the wheels. A car with roughly same weight with 4 times the power in drifting needs at least that much tire 275-285.
If the GTR cars weight 1360 KG (3000LBs) then we can go down to 255/265 because that would put it with the drift comp cars from the past.

You are right, it is indeed 265. Where I do not follow you is that you think that heavier car needs less tire width ... it is not the case for cars in general, why would drift cars need less tire width when heavier ? or more generally, why would lighter cars need bigger tires ? seems weird.
I have no talent for drifting, but by playing a bit with XRR and FZR, I would say the FZR is better when clutch kicking due to the bigger engine ... on this, the XRR is clearly less interesting, but handling speaking I find it quite nice due to the weight balance : whatever the tire width (but again, not a specialist)

Quote from Scawen :

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I'm not sure the new configs should be called DRIFT / RX (on the XRR and FZR) and RX (on the FXR). Maybe there's a better name that could apply to all of them and doesn't seem to exclude hard track racing.

Indeed. I would simply call them something like RACE (for Rx/Drift option) and GTR for the classic version we know for a longtime.

Quote from PopnLochNessMonster :

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But now the rear tires are too small in the rear for XRR. It does not make much sense that FZR and XRR are the same horsepower, but have different rear tire sizes. If the XRR had the same rear tire sizes as FZR (285 rear) it would be much better for keeping up with each other.
...

The reason is the weight balance : more weight at the rear means you need more tire width to have a better natural balance.
On the paper for XRR, having 275mm rear tires for a 1100kg car with 50/50 weight balance does not seem 'little', even if the power is almost reaching 500hp.

Quote from Scawen :

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Changes in 0.6U19 (NEW INCOMPATIBLE VERSION)

Maximum number of layout objects increased to 2400
XR GTR in DRIFT / RX config has H-pattern shifter
Handbrake strength is now separately adjustable
10mm narrower rear tyres in XR GTR new config
10mm narrower F/R tyres in FXO GTR new config
10mm narrower track width FZ50 GTR new config
Tyre size displayed in Tyres tab in Garage
FIX: InSim IS_NPL did not report Config

https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/95016

wow, I did some laps in the FXR, and it is better feeling by far. More agility, more responsive, clearly better (almost matching the laptimes of U18 by 0.2/0.3s)
I did my test on BL3 with knobbly tires



I tried the XRR in the same config ... omg, that is a beast ! Impossible to not spinout the thing

It is just great ! I have finally manage to get under 57 in Blackwood rallycross (do not laugh, I am old now ) ! This was clearly a must for LFS : a performant car for rallycross tracks, hope more people will enjoy this part of LFS

Thank you Scawen !

NB : Eric, do not forget to add a joker lap layout included on those tracks !!!

Quote from Scawen :

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XFR and UFR can use rallycross tyres too but you don't need to select a different configuration.

Oh oh oh !!!!

Quote from Scawen :

NOTE: To use the new GTR configuration for XRR / FZR / FXR

- Garage
- New setup
- Info tab
- Configuration: RX / DRIFT

Gives you slimmer wheels, allowing a wider range of tyres and greater steering lock

I did a quick test (I was going mad with FXR on blackwood rallycross : amen to that patch ), and saw that : XFR and UFR are not included ... They are designed to be rallycross machines !

XF is VW Golf 3 to me, with the rear lights of a Citroen AX

XRT has the same specs has RB4 ... and weigts more ... (not very nice)

The goal of this test patch is not to have new tire physics ^^ . The current model has several flaws everyone is aware of

Quote from gu3st :

Might make for interestingly balanced cars. High HP with downforce but no tyre grip.

semi slick tires of 275mm width is not "no tire grip"
But indeed, I like the idea of having a different car class "at low cost" with this.

Quote from Scawen :

Some more information about the RX / DRIFT configuration so far.

On the left you see the original race tyre size. When you select "RX / DRIFT" the tyres change to the numbers on the right. You can then select more tyres and greater maximum lock (up to 60 degrees on XRR and FZR).

XR GTR
F 335/30-19 -> 245/45-18
R 335/35-18 -> 275/40-18

FZ50 GTR
F 300/35-18 -> 235/45-18
R 370/30-18 -> 285/40-18

FXO GTR
F 335/35-18 -> 275/40-18
R 335/35-18 -> 275/40-18

Could it be possible to display these numbers in the tires tab ? It is always nice to see these cars' parts specifications when playing in the setup menu.

Quote from Flame CZE :

I have suggestion - what about having a text filter function for setups on the garage screen? It would make searching for setups easier, e.g. by entering "WE1R" it would find all setups which have that text in their name.

Maybe it could be a "filter" button in the Setups column, which would trigger a text entry dialog.

I understand that it's quite late in the test patch phase now but this just came to my mind.

indeed, it is a must in the future at least, as finding setups may take some times in the end .
The same applies to replays !

Quote from Scawen :

Trying something.

A new 'configuration' called 'RX / DRIFT' that sets the tyres narrower and adds an offset.

With 'RX / DRIFT' selected you can choose the wider range of tyres and extreme steer angle.

Quote from Nadeo4441 :

Would it be possible to switch to H-shifter instead of a sequential gearbox? Its difficult to drift with paddles. Not a lot of people have dedicated sequential shifters with their wheels. It's just an idea, no need to get into it if it's complicated.

I would prefer the devs to spend some times later on a do some proper drift machines.

Quote from Nadeo4441 :

Well it's possible, but drift cars don't run such wide tires on the front anyway. Maybe adjustable tire width? But I guess that's too much to get into now.

The XRR runs 335 width on the front according to some info I found on the forums. For example, the highest allowed tire ON the REAR in Formula D competition IRL is 305 on the heaviest class. Nobody would drift with 335 on the front.

In my opinion, 45 is enough for street cars, 60 could be good for the higher powered cars.

Agree : adjustable tire width and rim size would be the must

Quote from Pfortnoks :

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Edited: Would be nice, to have street tires, for GTR cars.

this is the purpose in this incompatible patch among the increased lock and multiplayer :
- road tires available for racecars.
- Rallycross tires available for GTR cars.

Quote from Scawen :

... But to start enabling rallycross hotlap tables for formula cars would be kind of stupid. It's not up for discussion at all. Anyone else is welcome to create their own hotlap tables for formula cars doing rallycross on road tyres if they want to. Maybe it'll catch on, who knows? But LFS developers aren't going to do that.
...

the door remains open for GTR cars...