Quote from Gnomie :

Unless my memory serves me wrong, didn't the fraction of demo racers use to be higher than this prior to patch y? Seems to be around half and half on good days. Are we seeing a positive trend both in terms of total number of racers and the amount of licenced users?

I wonder how much of that is due to the XRT

I do agree some roads and conditions are bad though

http://youtube.com/watch?v=rKsaHMBjuTc

@wheel4hammer - I didn't mean twice the limit to be literal was just using it as a figure of speach some corners and roads you may well be able to do more than twice the limit some much less depends on a whole bunch of factors.

Rally drivers are good at reading road conditions from an initial slow drive by, but even they get it wrong on occassion.

Last edited by Glenn67, Sun 2 Mar 2008, 23:33.

There's a reason why speed limits are where they are.

On a race track your aim is to be as close to the grip limit as you can for as much of the time as possible with only a very small margin for error - hence why they only have traffic going in one direction and have run off areas, ambulances on standby etc etc

On a public road the aim is to be driving your car with a VARY LARGE margin for error (i.e. miles within the grip limit) so that WHEN the unexpected happens you can react in time to safely recover from the situation without any unecessary loss of life or injury to yourself or others. See the difference

Going around a corner at twice the posted limit doesn't prove your a great driver, any numpty can do that. And anyone that drives at twice the speed limit on a road they don't know should have their license torn up into tiny little pieces and never be given another one.

The whole argument about people dying because of unsafe roads is a joke, the vast majority of fatal accidents are preventable by the driver at fault.

I'd suggest that alot of people need to learn about the term "risk assesment" it will stand you in good stead in many areas in life not just on the road. Taking unnecessary risks is just stupid plain and simple, taking an risk based on sound knowledge of a circumstance that has a high probability of a positive outcome is wise.

Quote from Nathan_French_14 :

...then why the hell dont they get rid of the bump? Even if there is a limit on a road like that, they cant expect everyone to stick to it.

LOL that is such a dumb comment so by your reasoning every residential road should be upgraded to an international raceway standard because we can't expect young people to stick to the speed limit ROFL scary thing is I don't think your alone in the way you think

Quote from ajp71 :

It's got nothing to do with the cars, they're perfectly predictable, relatively easy to drive fast modern production racing cars with very few accidents caused by mechanical failures. Almost all of the big crashes are caused by car to car contact that could be avoided by not taking silly risks and massive single car accidents caused by drivers pushing far too hard in dry conditions, [snip]

The third option is to try and make some safety improvements where possible but not loose sight of the fact that high speed crashes at a street circuit in production cars must not happen. In order for good racing to happen drivers have to respect each other and not take such silly risks then we'll see better racing and less time and money wasted with accidents.

That is exactly my opinion and prefered outcome.

Generally what I have seen since the 80's through to now is that improved safty doesn't really reduce serrious accidents in racing as much as we might expect.

I believe this is because each time there are great steps taken in safty, the next generation of drivers that come through just push the cars harder than the previous (because its "safe") until such point enough serrious accidents spark the next push for major changes in the name of safty, which then sparks a whole new cycle.


I'm not a big fan of how quickely they will go to full course yellows and call out the safty car either, they should only do that only in the most serious cases imo. I can't count how many times I've seen major acciedents within 2 laps of a restart all in the name of spectaor amusment I guess

Quote from Christopher Raemisch :

Yep and they don't go up enough. Instant contact temps are supposed to be way above mass temps (someone correct me but IIRC they should be over 120c)

Do you have any references you can link to about surface temps of tyres, because I'd sure be interested

Quote from Mustafur :

Are you kidding targa tazmania is one of the most dangerous rallyies on the planet, usually every year a driver dies from hitting a tree.

And your point is?

My point still stands, if the drivers aren't protesting about safty who are we too. All I was suggesting is that the drivers have some part to do with their own safty as much as track design and car design.

Try this set made by Axus

The answer is not just improved safty, it's as much about the driver's aggression and the risks he takes.

Peter Brock was clinical in his racing and rarely had crashes but even he died because he took a risk he shouldn't have It wasn't the tracks fault or the cars. If a track is dangerous the driver makes a judgment call. When tracks or cars are seriously dangerous you would hear alot of drivers viocing their opinions. In this case at Adelaide you don't hear drivers saying that corner is too dangerous.

Quote from axus :

Todd and Gregor Veble have already beaten me to it. Now we just need to get our hands on some of their work.

Hmm with your contacts that should be a sinch

I wondered why you had changed your tone so much

Bank charges caused by overdrawn accounts from DD is such a con

With computer technology tell me why it isn't possible for a DD to verifiy that there is enough cleared funds before it debits your account? The whole idea of banks debiting your accounts for amounts you dont have then charging you for it is just soo wrong imo what do they take us for complete twats...

If you can avoid having any DD setups don't do it, rather just setup internet banking and do the transfers yourself then you will never be charged and you are in complete control of your cash flow.

Quote from mrodgers :

Thus, when they reach the age of puberty, they are the center of the universe much more than we were when we were children.

And god help us when they enter the workforce I can see the next global recession already millions of "workers" sitting at work texting and interwebing their companies to financial ruin... wondering why their employers aren't throwing money at them, surely income isn't linked to productivity.
I've seen alot that think "hey I'll work harder when you pay me more" lol they must think money is this magical resource with neverending supply that has no cause and effect

Quote from axus :

And for crying out loud, in a game genre called simulation racing a good 20 or 30 years after its dawn we've still not got a single sim that manages to simulate tyres properly.

Well then m8 hurry up and finish uni and start coding the ultimate tyre model I'll let you take 3 - 5 years because that will be about the time I intend to retire and it would be nice to have it by then, so how about it eh

It all the radiation being emmitted from the mobile phones jees it must be a nightmare dealing with kids these days I thought it was bad twenty years ago

Quote from 5haz :

I really think the drivers of tin tip cars should be positioned closer to the cars centre, for extra protection, how long before we have another one of these horrible accidents?

Plus does anyone think that corner is particularly dangerous?

We are RH side drivers here so he couldn't have been further away from the wall it must have just been the shear forces invloved. Here the news didn't just mention head injuries he also recieved alot of other internal injuries.

Sad to see he died.

But that corner is a great corner and I'd hate to see it changed too much, as ajp71 says in most cases it isn't too unsafe as the cars would be making glancing blows to the wall not full impacts like that. If they do something to that corner it should be with the appex and not the wall.

I actually think racing is fairly safe even though we have had some fatalities recently, in reality there is always and will always be some fatalities in motor sport, it's not about eliminating them entirely but rather ruducing them as much as possible. Far more die on public roads every week, that's were it is really unsafe!

Last edited by Glenn67, Mon 25 Feb 2008, 23:35.

Quote from JeffR :

I wonder how many players here think that if NFS wins, it will stop polls like this from being created?

We can live in hope but we all know there will be another in less than two weeks

Quote from AndRand :

judging by current poll results (LFS - 69%, NFS - 80%) I smell marketing war approaching and upcoming fanboys charge

I don't I smell the hand of Bob

Quote from legoflamb :

I'm glad to hear that some one wants to try it.

tried your most recent miata set today and love it, goes into my favorite setup list

Really enjoyed throwing it around south city, it actually feels how I'd ecpect a real road car to feel. Would love to see some races or autocross events done around this set.

You must really have been out of Australia for a long while Think you are in for some serrious shocks when you return lol

I have been lamenting the increase in bureaucracy, red tape and political correctness gone mad for years now

Quote from AndroidXP :

Even if you add "randomness" you can start the random number generator with the same seed as you did on the real race, which means it will produce exactly the same number sequences again.

Hmm thats true, I keep forgetting that in computers there is no such thing as random maybe there could be if you linked it to some real time changing data like LFSWorld PB's or some such I never like the idea of fake randomness too many card counters out there

Quote from sil3ntwar :

how would that be a problem? The replays are exactly the same each time you watch them so any damage you get will be reproduced exactly the same way as its the exact same crash.

Hmm well I was thinking how much computer horsepower would be needed to model every bit of gravel rolloing around the track or every lump of rubber If that was how it would be represented we will need to wait quite some time before PC's are powerfull enough let alone the complexities of programing So then I thought that sought of modeling would have to be canned effects or semi simultated which to be believeable would require some randomness built in at which point I'd suspect the current replay system wouldn't work or at the very least would have to exclude cirtain aspects then I became depressed (as I want to see these features sooner rather than later)

you asked

Quote from legoflamb :

New XRG/Miata setup:
Use of the Viscous differential, because that is what mine has.

I'll give that a go later tonight Downloaded your old one but forgot to try it

On another note (seems like a good thread for it) I've been wishing for a server that offers trackday type driving lately (would be a good place to hang out if your not in the mood to race and as an alternitive to cruise servers)

Quote from kamkorPL :

It was lovely

And you are very true about the fact that cars from lfs would be hard to drift in real life. My Fz5 setup is pretty extreme, which makes it good and recompansates RR layout, but still, point is.. One that has knowledge about drifting, who will see lfs drifting vids with caterhams and porsches drifting will probably think it's not very realistic(by judging from a vid).

Nice to hear thx for the info.

We racers and drifters alike then await for road cars with abit more horsepower to wieght ratio I know I'd love to race a car similar to a skyline R32/33 or pontiac gto in lfs as much as you would like to drift one

Quote from CobraDrifter :

He was sarcastic.

And so was he

Reading between the lines seems to be harder on a forum where there is lines than it is in an actual conversation with someone in RL where there isn't any lines

Thanks for taking the time to answer

Dang I totally forgot the wheel turn thing yes I can see that would make it alot easier if you had low wheel turn degrees (i.e. a momo wheel or G25 set for less than equivelant of a real car)

But I also suspect that the loosing of grip and regaining of grip lacks the vielent feel that seems to be eviedent in alot of circumstances irl. But then I guess that is always going to be true to some point in a sim simply because you don't have to fight G-forces that you do irl

Irl those G-forces would be telling you "your going to die you fool!" in a sim all you feel is "hmm we seem to be sliding" so you are far less likely to overreact in a sim than irl

I'd also agree with BartDrift's view on the current cars in LFS which is what actually made me think that drifting in LFS is too easy as similar cars irl would be hard to drift to the same level as whats possible in LFS? Have you tried using LFSTweak or similar to setup a driftcar more closely approximating a rl drift car out of interest? And if so how was it?

Last edited by Glenn67, Fri 22 Feb 2008, 03:17.