Quote from farcar :

I remember watching this on TV a while back...

Nice find the track looks huge with the aussieracers

Just spoted this 1995 Bathurst Perkins 29 -1st an oldie but goodie...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=BL62wWr9zPo

Found a few more interesting vids on tyres

http://youtube.com/watch?v=s3mrcjKUxtU
http://youtube.com/watch?v=7W1J9eerm4k
http://youtube.com/watch?v=IqoVLu19DWQ
http://youtube.com/watch?v=SkEE_z9EYwA

I want delaminating tyres in LFS when they get overheated

Last edited by Glenn67, Wed 12 Mar 2008, 14:59.

It always amuses me how the westernised countries which have taken several hundred years to pull themselves out of the dark ages (and in some cases are still doing so) are so quick to demand change from third world countries

Change is a generational thing, it definately is not going to happen overnight and will most likely take many generations to effect.


More countries should take a leaf out of Denmarks book and instead of demanding other countires change, go and form partnerships between governments (which in turn is forming partnerships with communities) and show them how to effect change that is beificial for all.

Quote from Noccy :

Go everywhere u can and form an opinion funded on your own experience. Live among the inhabitants too and be open to their way of life and u will see all people are/want the same ..don't lock yourselves away in some hotel with a private beach and gardens and then come back home telling how awful the people there are.

Ofcourse u are free to believe everything the media/politicians tell u, but don't expect it to be the outright truth. And yes I've lived in a few "dangerous countries" and never ran into problems that dont exist elsewhere. If u look after yourselves(fe dont go into the slums in Rio at night,etc) and are friendly to people just about everyone will be friendly in return.

Couldn't agree more, what is exactly so dangerous in Malaysia I ask this having lived and worked there for three years And that was in Borneo (Kota Kinabalu, Sabah)

Quote from hiroshima guy :

And, since I'm young and I don't have a passport... When I get older, I will get myself one and guess what country am I gonna visit first. (You'd be astonished to hear the answer so better guess)

My guess it will be Malaysia, no matter what your current intentions are due to how easy it is

Quote from Technique :

+1 if speed was all that matters the devs might as well remove all vehicles except the BMW F1 car.

My favourite LFS cars XFG, XRG, LX6, RZ5 all are fun in there own ways

Quote from AndroidXP :

Wtf?

E: To contribute, I have no opinion of Singapore, I wouldn't even be able to locate it on a map without looking it up first.

Hmm wasn't too long ago aussie's got the same response and probably do still in some palces no matter, we would also struggle to locate most european countries too we are all the centre of our universe.

My opinion of Singapore well I've been there three or four times, first time in mid 80s, last time in the late 90's i guess.

Back in the eighties it was a great place to go shop, currency was about 2:1 then Now it's abit more even so not as great in that regard.

It's a small island with alot of people on it, rather than a large island with few people It's relatively clean considering and yes there seems to be alot of fines They say here in Australia if you analysed how many laws and rules govern us on our daily routine it is about 6,000, I'd say in Singapore it would be atleast double


The main street is a good place to go get a feed.
It has good public transport
And the 46th floor of the Western Stamford is a good place to through a bucket of water down onto the tennis court below an a fine sunny afternoon

Oh yeah it also rains in the afternoon without warning, which is fine for the locals as they all expect it but as a tourist it can mean you end up looking like a drowned rat, which I'd imagine looks quite comical in the lobby the Western Stanford

Quote from DieKolkrabe :

Here's how...

1) press N until the connection list comes up

2) click the green S by the person's name

3) Save setup

4) Select/use it

4) ???

5) Victory (maybe)

DK

And how many times have you typed that sequence out in the chat screen in LFS? I'd say hundreds for me over the years hehe

Quote from niall09 :

It's becuase his beloved FOX isn't as good and he can't get good laptimes around AS2 anymore.

Even in real life car specs and track configs can change so LFS is reflecting RL that much more

Lost is the only show on TV that I watch regularly. I also thought season 3 was not as good as 1 and 2 but think season 4 has got it right again.

I just tested between Patch X and Y for 20 AI on SO1 in LX6's.

The average difference between fps on my system is a hit of 25% in patch Y, the CPU usage is identical between both versions.

I suspect that the performance issues with graphics is at least partly to do with an outdated and I suspect poorly supported DirctX8 graphics system in the newer versions of DirectX9c etc which would also explain why newer graphics cards still don't perform as well as expected. It's like having a 220kw engine but only being able to depress the throttle by 20%.

What I have noticed, which worries me, is that when fps drop low that I seem to loose precision in my G25 and in worst cases find it almost impossible to stay in control of the car. Where at high fps like 75fps the wheel response is rock solid. This worries me because I thought that the wheel inputs was completly independent of fps.

I've also had more problems than I used to in patch X with lag on servers but suspect that is more an issue with local internet problems rather than LFS.

[edit]
On further investigation I have found that the system also struggles more in the CPU department than I first thought, it seems with a full grid of AI that the graphics required to be driven by the cpu is quite high. When I alt tab to monitor the cpu usage (lfs minimised but AI still racing i.e. no graphics being rendered) it shows 26% cpu usage, but when I shift F4 (winodwed mode i.e. graphics being rendered) the cpu usage indicates 45-50% so is maxing out one core.

This seems to indicate that the graphics overhead on the cpu is nearly as high as the physics overhead and that indeed the cpu is the limiting factor.

With 20 AI on SO1 there is often as much as 50% reduction in fps over the patch X version on my system and thats with full size textures set to No and skins to Compressed.

Last edited by Glenn67, Fri 7 Mar 2008, 13:14.

Quote from shiny_red_cobra :

Well, on the other hand, LFS has an amazing physics engine, so maybe it's hogging more CPU than it should. Or it could also be that the GPU isn't given enough work to do.

Don't think it is a CPU issue at all. My CPU is only utilised 26% when LFS is running 20 AI around SO1 and only 5% when running 4 AI

My system is deffinately limited by graphics more than CPU power, which is to be expected I guess

Quote from Boris Lozac :

There's certainly some problem when a lot of cars are on the track..

The problem is, that it seems that none of those graphical options make any difference to performance, just the looks of the game, many of my team mates are not having better performance with textures half or full, LOD adjustments and all that, maybe 2, 3 FPS up, that's it...
so what's the reason for this high PC load?

Graphical options do make quite a difference on my end, say if on max settings in one point in a replay gives me 19fps when I put all settings to the min settings it will hit about 30-32 at the same spot. That equals a 57% jump in performance but I agree its not great for trying to race time to get a new graphics card and see if I can swing a new system with it

Last edited by Glenn67, Fri 7 Mar 2008, 04:28.

Quote from FOX 1977 :

I just think the fps drop from a patch to other a litle to big imo.

I did a little investigation on my PC to see just how much the difference is. (I had the feeling also of more problems online in servers)

My PC specs are P4 3.2GHz 2.0GB Geforce 6600GT

I first did a clean install of patch X into a new directory, then went straight to single player (so all default settings) and selected the XFG on BL1 with 12 AI only, running 3 laps. I got the following fps results:

Start line to first corner in cockpit view of 8th car on grid average 38fps
Leading car for the reaminder of the lap had average of 70fps for the last sector
Overall range of fps observed were approx 30-90fps

I then did a clean install of patch X into another directory and patched it to version Y and repeated the above tests with the following results:

Start line to first corner in 8th car average 34fps
Leading car for last sector 70fps
Overall range observed 28-8xfps

I then did this test in the install of LFS I use normally with a grid of 20 AI with the following results:

Start line to first corner in 8th car average 25fps
Leading car for last sector 60fps
Overall range observed 19-6xfps

So overall it doesn't look unreasonable, which suggests there maybe other issues with some peoples setups. I also have a momo and G25 wheel and will try them shortly with similar test routines and report the results. I have tried to race with a grid of 20 AI before with the G25 wheel and found it was too stutterry, so maybe there is an isue with the G25 will edit this post with more soon.

Well I just tried it with me starting in the 8th position on the grid using a G25 wheel and there was no appreciable difference in fps. I'll try the same tests at SO1 in the LX6 now as that's were I noticed problems before.

Last edited by Glenn67, Thu 6 Mar 2008, 14:28.

I've used an xbox controller for the first two years I played LFS and since have used a momo for about 1.5 years and now use a G25.

I could use an xbox contoller almost as well as a wheel If you search for xbox controller settings, I have posted settings before under the username B2B@300. Personally I think dead spots and none linear inputs are a mistake, if you have no dead spots and have the stearing linear with only a small amount of steer smoothing and practise alot you will get the precision you are looking. The other thing I did different for an xbox controller is set the max steering lock to 16deg in the car setup screen.

Quote from Gentlefoot :

I always thought the economic cycle was due to the natural lag involved in the effect of economic changes on one another. Ofcourse all economic trends relate to human nature in some way but I'm not so sure I agree that our social interactions with each other as individuals has any effect on the economic cycle

I'd agree that economic policy changes can create a lag effect which can cause the economic cycle to change more rapidly, but why do they need to make a policy change in the first place? Or another way to look at it, is why do policy changes work?
No matter on what scale you look at things it ultimately is dependent on how we react and behave as individuals in a large group.
Warren Buffet has been said to monitor at what point the economic cycle is by observing how people shop as a kind of leading indicator

I believe that the economic prosperity of a nation is very much dependent on how the next generation view life, work and money.

Last edited by Glenn67, Mon 3 Mar 2008, 23:46.

Quote from JeffR :

Which is worse, the effect of inflation due to printing money, or the ever increasing interest rates that have to be paid on these long term bonds to get investors to buy them (money the investors might have spent on consumer goods instead)?

If you let inflation loose it adversely effects the working class (most likely causing them to get disgruntled and vote out the current government or worst case overthrough them) but at the same time it plays into the hands of the wealthy (asset rich) as their assets will keep pace with inflation.
With long term bonds they a borrowing money that would have been unlikely to be spent on consumer items (the rich can only spend so much)
Having said that I'm not convinced that having monatary ploicy that adjusts interest rates to keep inflation within difined limits is such a good idea either. It still hurts the working class the most.

Quote from StanleyCarter :

Whether its the cyberspace or the real world, the newer generation sure is being a whole lot different than it used to be.

Simple to explain really the easier it is to live (have a roof over your head and put food on the table) the more self centered and shallow we become as a society.
The new generation is like the rich kids of a self made millionare dad, the dad has alot of character the kids have none
True character and respect for fellow man flourishes and is most pronounced in adversity, history has a habit of repeating, which is why there is and always will be busts following boom times no matter how much the reserve banks play with monetary policyit's the dark side of our nature.

Quote from mazz4200 :

An odd fact, (although nothing to do with the topic) but, in the UK the largest retail outlets and the highest proportion of shops per person, are all in areas that have a history of high unemployment and poor health. Essentially the working classes like to spend their money, while the middle classes like to save their money. In a nutshell (and perhaps bizarrely), a nation that saves it's money has an unhealthy economy, but a nation that spends it's money has a healthy economy

It's all a conspiracy to keep the working class in their place

Saving is just postponing spending and spending is just using your cash flow on consumable items which will have little or no future value and more importantly will never generate income in and of itself.

Actively investing a portion of your cash flow on the other hand, will not only help the economy but will also ensure that in the future your investment will add to your cashflow and eventually become your primary source of cashflow at which point you can retire or at least choose to work rather than have to work.

Quote from Gnomie :

Unless my memory serves me wrong, didn't the fraction of demo racers use to be higher than this prior to patch y? Seems to be around half and half on good days. Are we seeing a positive trend both in terms of total number of racers and the amount of licenced users?

I wonder how much of that is due to the XRT

I do agree some roads and conditions are bad though

http://youtube.com/watch?v=rKsaHMBjuTc

@wheel4hammer - I didn't mean twice the limit to be literal was just using it as a figure of speach some corners and roads you may well be able to do more than twice the limit some much less depends on a whole bunch of factors.

Rally drivers are good at reading road conditions from an initial slow drive by, but even they get it wrong on occassion.

Last edited by Glenn67, Sun 2 Mar 2008, 23:33.

There's a reason why speed limits are where they are.

On a race track your aim is to be as close to the grip limit as you can for as much of the time as possible with only a very small margin for error - hence why they only have traffic going in one direction and have run off areas, ambulances on standby etc etc

On a public road the aim is to be driving your car with a VARY LARGE margin for error (i.e. miles within the grip limit) so that WHEN the unexpected happens you can react in time to safely recover from the situation without any unecessary loss of life or injury to yourself or others. See the difference

Going around a corner at twice the posted limit doesn't prove your a great driver, any numpty can do that. And anyone that drives at twice the speed limit on a road they don't know should have their license torn up into tiny little pieces and never be given another one.

The whole argument about people dying because of unsafe roads is a joke, the vast majority of fatal accidents are preventable by the driver at fault.

I'd suggest that alot of people need to learn about the term "risk assesment" it will stand you in good stead in many areas in life not just on the road. Taking unnecessary risks is just stupid plain and simple, taking an risk based on sound knowledge of a circumstance that has a high probability of a positive outcome is wise.

Quote from Nathan_French_14 :

...then why the hell dont they get rid of the bump? Even if there is a limit on a road like that, they cant expect everyone to stick to it.

LOL that is such a dumb comment so by your reasoning every residential road should be upgraded to an international raceway standard because we can't expect young people to stick to the speed limit ROFL scary thing is I don't think your alone in the way you think

Quote from ajp71 :

It's got nothing to do with the cars, they're perfectly predictable, relatively easy to drive fast modern production racing cars with very few accidents caused by mechanical failures. Almost all of the big crashes are caused by car to car contact that could be avoided by not taking silly risks and massive single car accidents caused by drivers pushing far too hard in dry conditions, [snip]

The third option is to try and make some safety improvements where possible but not loose sight of the fact that high speed crashes at a street circuit in production cars must not happen. In order for good racing to happen drivers have to respect each other and not take such silly risks then we'll see better racing and less time and money wasted with accidents.

That is exactly my opinion and prefered outcome.

Generally what I have seen since the 80's through to now is that improved safty doesn't really reduce serrious accidents in racing as much as we might expect.

I believe this is because each time there are great steps taken in safty, the next generation of drivers that come through just push the cars harder than the previous (because its "safe") until such point enough serrious accidents spark the next push for major changes in the name of safty, which then sparks a whole new cycle.


I'm not a big fan of how quickely they will go to full course yellows and call out the safty car either, they should only do that only in the most serious cases imo. I can't count how many times I've seen major acciedents within 2 laps of a restart all in the name of spectaor amusment I guess

Quote from Christopher Raemisch :

Yep and they don't go up enough. Instant contact temps are supposed to be way above mass temps (someone correct me but IIRC they should be over 120c)

Do you have any references you can link to about surface temps of tyres, because I'd sure be interested

Quote from Mustafur :

Are you kidding targa tazmania is one of the most dangerous rallyies on the planet, usually every year a driver dies from hitting a tree.

And your point is?

My point still stands, if the drivers aren't protesting about safty who are we too. All I was suggesting is that the drivers have some part to do with their own safty as much as track design and car design.

Try this set made by Axus