Quote from Bladerunner :

We have a pretty good ShareSave scheme at work..we pay so much (between £5 and £15 per week) for 3 years, then get a block of shares in the company at preferential rates..
Last time I did it I had about 460 shares, bought at £4.90 and sold at £17.00. Should have kept the b**tards, they are at £24.00 now

Hindsight is always 20/20 vision good too hear you did well out of them anyway. I like the idea of sharesave scheme's at work and also bonus systems as it can change an employees perspective dramatically.

Quote from thisnameistaken :

To be totally honest I think you'd be insane to borrow money to bet on the stock market. You might as well remortgage your home and put it all on a horse - at least that's a quick return if it comes in, and you've got professionals (bookmakers) who can give you a much more accurate assessment of what the risk is going to be, which they'll even publish for you before you take the gamble. Convenient!

I have never borrowed to invest in the stockmarket and would agree it is generally a bad idea.
A couple of points to ponder though:
- even though gambling may have published odds, it is a investment that has only two outcomes, either a payout or a 100% loss. Where as in the stockmarket there is many possible outcomes, with a 100% loss being highly unlikely (the company has to go into liquidation for that).
- in the stock market you can more effectively manage your risk.
- In the stock market you don't need to borrow to achieve leveraging, you can trade the movement of the main stock by its corrosponding warrants or options. Another way which is now my prefered way is CFD (contrats for difference) this allows you to see the same sort of returns on a $1,000 trade in say a blue chip stock like BHP as you would see with a trade of $10,000 were you borrowed the money. The downside risk is still there but you can limit you losses to whatever you like for example 3% then it will close out the position. The other advanatge of CFD's is that you can trade both long and short.

Quote from thisnameistaken :

Call me old-fashioned but I like the idea of earning what I spend by providing value to people. I don't like the idea of being in any more debt than I need to be - big purchases like a house are inevitable, a fifteen grand loan to bet on market behaviour is just frivolous.

But then again I don't particularly care about being rich, and in fact I don't think I even want to be rich. Yes I've heard all the benefits of "financial independence" but you've got to do something with your time even if you're rolling in it, and I'm pretty content to do what I'm doing already, with a couple of other irons in the fire in case I want to change paths.

I dont have any disrespect towards people that choose different ways of life, I have tried quite a few in my time so far. Some of the things I have done job wise are: car detailer 2yrs, postal clerk 2 yrs, offset printing 1 yr, machine operator in factory 7yrs, concrete construction and repair work 6 yrs, running a bussiness that provides computer network administrative support 2 yrs, lecturer in Introduction to computers 2 yrs, missionary in third world country 3 yrs, start up nonprofit organisation running school camps on a 25,000 acre farm 3 years, supervisor in factory 3 yrs, home renovations and building projects 2 yrs, stock market trading 2 yrs. Some of these were done concurrently.
So please don't get me wrong, I respect that there is many ways to live life and be fulfiled. I personally am not seeking finacial independance because I aspire to be "rich" if you know me in real life you will see I don't give a rats ass about what others think of me I drive a 20 year old car that looks very average live in a house that currently doubles as a building site and wear work clothes just about 24/7 lol.

For me financial independance isn't about living the high life, it's about doing work that I want to do and doing it when the desire is there and reaping the rewards of hard work rather than it going to company profits. Also being able to do other things when I so desire. In other words not being held to account by bosses and bank managers know or in the future

And as for the ideal of providing value to people by spending your money well 30 years ago when you were spending your money in localy owned stores on products that were made locally I might agree. But in this day and age of multinational conglomerates the "value you are giving people" is to a very few people, some of which would be shareholders or the top executives on there multimillion dollar bonus schemes

Banks, supermarket chains and the whole consumer oriented sociaty we live in is making obscene profits. I don't feel bad at all in denying them a little

You are doing well if you only borrow for a house and keep your depts to a minimum. Another principle I've learned is only borrow to invest in things that appreciate in value, never in things that depriciate.

Last edited by Glenn67, Mon 11 Feb 2008, 00:15.

Quote from thisnameistaken :

One of our customers sells stock market advice. TBH I think they made a killing on the Google IPO and they set up their business on the strength (or lack thereof) of that one success. I don't know how successful they've been since, and I don't really want to know.
If I were you I'd stick to property.

People often think property is bullet proof, hence the saying "as safe as houses" but it's not always true.

We recently saw quite large reductions in property values on the east coast of Australia (although it's bouncing back nicely at the moment) and Japan saw major loses in property some 10-20 years ago. In the US they are seeing a downturn in some areas currently.

My point is that while there may be less risk in the property market there still is risk especially if you are highly geared (loaned all the money) and don't do your research (location, loc, loc). Property has other disadvantages as well, the obvious is that it is much slower to move your money around and there is high unseen costs to maintain property.

The stock market on the other hand is often associated with speculation and risk taking (people jumping out of windows in the '87 crash springs to mind) that image unfortunately stops people seeing the stockmarket as a valuable investment tool.

The interesting thing about the stock market is that depending on your investment strategy you can make it a very risky investment or alternatively quite low risk investment. In essence with the stockmarket you can taylor a risk/reward ratio that suites your circumstances, the more risk you take exposes you to more potential profits or losses, if you take a low risk strategy you can still get better than bank returns with a moderately low risk of losing money.

Don't for a minute believe that if you can make money at something that it is risk free. There is even risk in putting your money in a bank or for that matter hidding it in your matteress .

Quote from thisnameistaken :

It doesn't look like a good time to be putting your money into the markets though. I know these guys are gambling on the market taking a huge correction upwards in the near future (taking the last ten years as a basis, the market hasn't moved, so they're thinking ten years of value is about to be added at some point) but with the current financial climate I wouldn't want to be taking that gamble.

Short term trading does hold large risk I agree, I've made lots and lost lots more on short term trades - I put it down to education costs
I'd also tend to agree with your assesment of the market based on your discription, one principle I've seen acted out and believe strongly is that the herd is always wrong. If everyone thinks the market is going to go up then the chances are it want or it will be short lived. If everyone thinks the market is broken and never will recover that is when it will mount a recovery.

I saw this very dramatically in the gold price over the last several years. I remember quite clearly at one point where everyone was saying that the gold price would never recover to its former glory days as it was no longer relavant in our modern world, because it was no longer linked to currency and not seen as a safe heaven blah blah blah. Gold was worth about $180/ounce then, since that point in time it has steadily climbed to its current giddy hieghts of in excess of $900/ounce. Just recently everone has been saying that the demand for commodities is so high that there is no end in sight of how high the prices might go, low an behold that is right were things a seeming to come unstuck. I think too we are in for volitile times in the market in the near future. But volitility is opportunity also.

One of the good things about alot of the trading instruments on the stockmarket is that you can trade your view. I.e. if you think the market is going to go down you can short it and make a profit if your view is correct. So that's another advantage over property because you can make money most market conditions.

Quote from jayhawk :

I invested in land. Buy lots and lots of land.

I'd agree investing in land could be rewarding long term, but is it such a good idea to borrow to buy land? As you can't make alot of income from land until you sell it and it would have high holding costs. If you had lots of cash sitting arround idly it's a different matter I guess But I would have thought there are better ways to make your money work for you. Please elaborate on why you think buying land is a good strategy?

Last edited by Glenn67, Sun 10 Feb 2008, 14:28.

When I ask about investing I don't mean in a good time or beer (short term investment)

I respect people like mrodgers that have invested in family rather than wealth and I know a lot here are young and are enjoying life without too much thought about the future. But it is never too early or too late to start thinking about investing and you don't have to be rich to think about investing.

I thought it might be good to stimulate a discussion on finances and achieving finacial independance to see if there are any others here struggling to achieve this goal and maybe to get some others to think about investing .

One of the primary realisations for me is that to achieve true finacial independance I need to get my money working hard for me so that eventually my money is making more than I can make at my dialy job.

One principle that I'm sure all have heard is "It's not how much you earn but what you do with what you earn." This thought in conjunction with a long term strategy is the first step towards financial independance.

There is a huge amount of options out there for making your money work for you and all too many people clamering to take it off you
So you need good research and well foundered strategies to make your money work for you rather than for someone else.

So what have you found that works?

I've personally spent alot of time studying technical analysis of the stock market and have actively traded the stock market for several years, I am not active in the stockmarket at the moment though, but still have a strong interest and intend to re-enter the frey at some future date.
For the last two years I have concentrated on houses and property development which leaves me with little or no spare time recently and while it's been a steep learning curve has been fun.

So before I bable on too much about risk/reward ratios and such, I just want to see if there are any others doing something similar or if there is any interest in such a discussion

Quote from kester :

we drove from lillydale(yarra ranges) to bathrust non-stop took us 9 hrs somthing like 1000k's

Pfft I've done an 8 hr (900km) round trip for a pizza before

Quote from JTbo :

Even I don't think that I'm very much of dickhead, maybe average amount

It's probably your avtar that gives the wrong impression

Serriously though how many people post 100% without sarcasim or humour and only fact and cold truth on a forum? I've always got what JTbo is on about and think he does see the world quite clearly if not abit excentric though

I agree with him fully that the world has gone mad with consumerism and that is what will ultimately bring about the next major worldwide recession.

Someone that aims to provide for themselves and family for the long term is far different to those that a consumed with consumerism. Many neglect their responsibilities due to "needing" constant new toys, by buying them with money they don't yet have rather than making sacrifices and going out and making a nest egg for the future.

Older people are often appear antisocial yes. But hey young people get pissed off here when they see the same stupid posts over and over again, well old people have been seeing the same stupid posts for 40 or more years, it wears you down after a while and the end result is a humour that invloves sinicism and sarcasim

Last edited by Glenn67, Wed 6 Feb 2008, 23:16.

I'd say get your friend to wear a wire and get the dope to act out how he would do your car.

Then get someone that looks similar to the guy to dress up like him and then use a video phone to film him slashing a tyre and keying your car in a dark carpark, finally dub the audio recoroding of the dope over the video footage.

Then file a report with the police about the vandalism to your car.

Initially only tell them that you suspect one guy who has taken a dislike to you.
A day latter contact them again with the IM's from your friend and her testimony.
Then a day latter from your campus post the vid on youtube and after a couple of days report that you found a video on youtube about this guy sprouting off how he did your car and how that you are outraged!

That should just about do it

Personally I'd just ignore the guy.

For the Bathurst nuts, various onboards that I've stumbled accross, enjoy

997GT3 Hot Laps http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqSjNnFQ8bc
Evo hotlap http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ch-u2xDur64
A lap in a Porsche 944 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_Lrd_1un9Y
64Mini at Bathurst http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6E2rllosOJs
In a aussieracer http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZwBnX4ymO8
Onboard an 1980's 1100 Honda http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJSlro-47Ns

Quote from senn :

whether you think something is "stupid" or "pointless" sometimes it's good to vent publicly, thats why this thread was started...and i can't believe it's still going lol

People are bored and don't have anything better to do

Quote from bamabogger :

Don't call us noobs!

Meh don't you know that if you haven't been around here since Aug 2002 you will always be a noob

Was a good final, I have not watched too much tennis since Mcenroe/Bjorn Borg/Lendal days but this was well worth the watch

Look forward to seeing how Novak and Tsonga progress in the years to come. Good to see the game become abit more interesting again

Quote from samjh :

F1 with studded tyres at Pikes Peak!

LOL that I'd like to see serriously

Quote from Vain :

I'm wondering wether this is a real life problem or are the LFS-friction coefficients simply wrong for very low tyre loads?

I get a invalid link error when I click on your attatchment

I think this is a situation in LFS that is amplified much greater than in RL at the moment. I'm sure it will improve in the future

Quote from samjh :

Those drivers must be totally nuts, or have nothing to lose.

Meh what will they think of next? F3000 on rallycross event

Interesting vid of Senna on a sunday drive Has good camera shots of his trademark type of footwaork.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=A8-zbfdPfRg

I hate any game that forces you into a career type mode (passing tests to use certain cars) and basiclly refuse to play them I've been driving for 30+ years I know how to drive

Not all of us have the time to do that. I like LFS because it's physics are realistic enough to be convincing and you can jump into any car or track and give it a spin. I tend to stay with certain cars that interest me because of my lack of time (for me that is mostly the LX4, LX6, XFG and XRG) So I don't go and jump on a server doing serrious races with the FO8 for example as I'd cock it up due to little or no track time in it

In short why penalise everyone for the shortcomings of some the problem is peoples lack of respect for fellow racers and no understanding of track etiquitte. Sure educate the younger players but don't force it on everyone.

-1

If there was to be a licensing system then it would need to be very flexable before I'd find it aceptable. i.e. if you want to drive the FO8 online then you must pass the tests for the FO8 not for every car in LFS

I think an CTRA style system expanded and with more flexibility would be a better way to ensure good online racing in the future.

Quote from FL!P :

I think it would help a lot if LFS triggered an AI to take the wheel of the lagging car on the fly, until it gets the connection back or gives up and times it out. I believe that would prevent many accidents that are due to lag.

That could cause more accidents as if your following someone you know you are familiar with their braking points etc and if the AI were to take over it would behave differently catching you out

The netcode for LFS is extremly good even now imo and that's coming from someone who is in Australia and often joins european servers with little or no problems at all (just have to pick servers with sensible ping and max guests).

There is a couple of things that will improve door to door racing in the future and that is improved internet backbones and on the LFS front improved damage and collission impacts (i.e. more energy is lost in collissions)

There is also something that can be done immediately by server admins and league organisers and that is make the server available only to people local to the server with pps set to 4 or 5. If you have a server that is attracting an international audience try setting the pps to 3 and see if that reduces lag issues (I've found it helps in the past) even consider having a reduced max guest setting. All these things can make a difference, but people like to have the max on everything not realising that it's rarely the optimum way of setting anything up.

Quote from mkinnov8 :

Finally.. Even in Australia.. Dont people work in the day time?

Not if we can help it

In reality yes we do and for me also most weekends work doesn't stop me visiting the forums though

Quote from FlintFredstone :

BTW ive got an imaginary degree in physics and i had a dream i won a grand prix therfore im fully qualified to make these statements

LOL I think that would fit quite a few folks around here including myself

Quote from Hankstar :

Aussie V8 Supercabs Four-door 5L V8, 600+ hp, 1500kg.

Wouldn't be right to have them without Bathurst though

I voted for the first option but I wouldn't mind if the setup options were fully adjustable on all cars (so even more adjustability than now on the road cars and even have other adjustments that we don't have now in engine as well as suspension, etc in offline mode) then have default sets of options (restrictions) that can be set for servers as well as an admin configerable restriction set.

This will enable racing classes to be created and hosted by server admins enabling them to simulate a great variaty of real life events from track days, autocross events, restricted race serries to unlimited type calsses of racing.

Quote from atlantian :

I don't get why people would be against diff locking...

I believe the intention was not to remove the lock diff from the game but just restrict it for a period of time to "encourage" more setups to be designed around the other diff options. As it stands now the overwhelming majority of setups use the locked diff. It's a mute point really though as it will sort it self out eventually as LFS progresses.

Quote from JeffR :

Ok, I forgot about that, make sense now. How much lag does it take before LFS turns a car into a ghost car (turns off collision)? I rarely play online anymore, and during my short online testing with patch Y, I didn't notice any cars being turned into lag logos, but maybe the players have better connections now.

LFS doesn't turn cars that lag into ghost cars ever.

When the lag gets too large they simply just disapear and you see a lag count were the car last was. It will then reapear at some point further down the track. For less sever lag LFS projects were the car should be, but when it knows for sure it will place the car there instantly which sometimes can cause a lag hit.

LFS netcode is actually very good and these types of situations are rare even when racing against opponents half way arround the world. But if you try to connect to an unreasonably high ping server you can expect to see more lag hits, high ping for me is 400-500ms. Australian servers are between 80-120ms, USA servers 200-300ms and european servers 380-500ms. I can race closely on servers that are 400ms or less most times.

Last edited by Glenn67, Fri 11 Jan 2008, 01:14.

Quote from JeffR :

I wasn't able to reproduce the instant solid red CT bar in single player mode, although I saw it happen a few times in multi-player mode. I'm not sure what was different. It was the instant red that didn't make sense to me. Mabye the multi-player crashes were just more servere, and / or moved my car enough that the clutch just got overheated very quickly, so it was just a very fast transition to solid red instead of an instant one.

If you only see that in multiplayer I'd put it down to lag causing LFS to think the forces are greater than they should be, which is a well know limitation with the crash physics in LFS so all makes sense

Quote from Polyracer :

Actually there is a G25 brake mod that gives a progressive feel like a real pedal, cheap too I use it and recommend it.

I've already modded my pedals there hieghts as well, but I still look forward to making a better set in the future

Quote from JeffR :

Why does a high speed impact peg the clutch temperature bar?

I'd put that down to the incomplete collission simulation.

i.e. when two cars collide in LFS not enough energy is lost in body crumple etc and so therefore more than rl forces are transmited back through the drive train causing the clutch to slip