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Quote from Gunn :

Scary stuff men. Even in jest it's scary. :eek:

You had to be there It was abit like Tristan's infamous thread which is now also way out of context but still gets bumped continually

I struggle to type anything while driving the best I can do is a smile when I think it's a racing incident and a sorry bind when I think it's my fault. And if I wait to the end of the race I invariably have forgoten who I have had the incident with I'd even go so far as to say that if your trying to drive and type your posing a futher greater hazard than the one you may have caused Anyway that is what TS is for hands free chat while you drive

Quote from Becky Rose :

With a less consistent environment drivers will have to give a larger margin for error which is infinitely more realistic.

I agree fully with having more dynamic driving conditions and that that would bring about more realistic driving practises. I'm sure plenty have heard me whine on about it

But as to not spending more time on tyre physics I don't believe Scawen is spending much time on tyre physics he has only focused on tyres physics once or twice since I've been arround (early 04), so I wouldn't suggest he is spending an inapproproate amount of time on them.

While I agree that the tyre physics are pretty darn good within certain parameters, I do believe they need refining still. Which probably means that over the next few years another couple of month long stints of focusing on the tyre physics again would be a good thing. On the other hand I'd think introducing dynamic track/driving conditions etc would require a much larger effort.

I would hope in the next few years we would see both

Good suggestions

A long time ago the hand brake pressure was just as adjustable as max brake pressure is now, but for some reason it was removed

Quote from gezmoor :

Personally when a physics change comes out I expect to have to completely relearn how to drive the cars because there has been a significant change to the handling characteristics.

That is simply not the case, physics changes only require a small amount of releaning. If you can drive you can drive

The main reason you don't see frequent physics updates is because it effects lap times and therefore the HL charts, league qualifying etc, which will and has upset alot in the past. For me I hang out for physics changes more than content even, the physics is the reason I'm here. So to see advancements and feel those advancements is what keeps me wanting more I'd be like a pig in mud if there was a new physics change every other week

So currently in LFS the road tyres are probably influenced by temperature more than they should be then? There has been other discussions about road tyres loosing too much grip when they are hot compared to rl as well that and the window of usable pressures is too large - i.e. doesn't seem to be enough penaltiy to grip when under or overinflated

Last edited by Glenn67, Sat, 22 Nov 2008 04:25.

Quote from Greenseed :

maybe i don't know when it time to go away

One of lifes most difficult lessons is not to take things so personally

Don't waste your life on a pointless battlefield. It's good to have passion about life but for that passion to survive you need to develop a skin as thick and tough as a rihno while keeping an open heart.

I wish you every success in this project and look forward to future developments

Quote from Greenseed :

pasibrzuch , you are so off men!

Greenseed you probably don't know me, but Sam (OPB55) does. I say this to both of you, don't get so worked up about negative comments. Ignor them and concentrate on the positive ones.

Actually most of the posts in the thread aren't negative with only one or two actually being abit negative which might cause you to interperate some of the others as negative.

You will find that the vast majority will support any new project related to LFS, so seriously wasting time on trying to change the viewpoint of one or two on the otherside of the screen is not worth it. And anyway the best way to change someones point of view is by not responding in the same manner.

There will always be some that will criticise without cause - the best way to deal with it is to look at every critical comment with cold objectivity and ask yourself "Is there any truth in this which I can learn from?" If there isn't discard the criticisim from your mind forever, if there is some truth then take it onboard and seek to improve in that area.

@pasibrzuch - labeling people is very counterproductive. I've talked to Sam on TS many times and he is the politest person I know. And he certainly is a man!

Perhaps the reason Sam hasn't been able to clearly explain the application to all is that he isn't very confident with programming concepts, one thing for sure though is that his enthusiasm for the project is clearly eviedent, which will cause many to be interested enough to go and investigate further so he has been entirely successful there it's just that some will not want to make any more effort and will only show more interest if everything is spelled out for them

Last edited by Glenn67, Sat, 22 Nov 2008 00:47.

Quote from franvelasco :

i`m very tired . are there some secret?

Don't drive tired relax stop trying to go fast and just concentrate on driving good lines... speed will come when you least expect

Not so hard to see just look in core feature and game feature

I believe it is a lfslapper style app that greenseed is seeking to make alot more versitile. i.e. could possibly be used as a ranking system and or driver rating system along with many other possibilities. The project is still young, but has potential to be a well sort after app for server operators in time. The especially cool thing about this project is that greenseed is open to community involvement in what features are added. That's what I can see from limited knowledge of the project.

Well written and an excellent report Sam

I wish the project every success and look forward to were Greenseed takes us!

It's the thought of projects like this that Scawen made LFS so programable

Last edited by Glenn67, Wed, 19 Nov 2008 07:03.

Quote from Hallen :

My suspicion about tire heating is that the flex of the sidewalls contributes very little to heat generation in the tire. I suspect the great majority of heat is generated by the friction on the tread.

I think in the same line but with a slightly different take, in that I suspect its the flex in the tread blocks that create the majority of heat. That goes some way to explaining why high pressure would generate more heat in a performance road tyre as well as there would be less tread contact area thus high forces acting on each tread block where with a lower pressure there would be a larger contact patch with the same forces spread over more tread blocks. But that is also why I think there should be a larger difference between the way slicks heat and cool when compared to treaded tyres, it would also suggest why slicks can generally handle softer rubber compounds

Macfox you are missing my point, that has created a culture of only driving on passworded servers which is still present today which in turn makes it less likely for new blood to find it's way into the system as bandaid aptly illustrates. Anyway I was just mentioning it as it is something that has bothered me for a long time

Quote from Macfox :

Why is this relevant to the discussion? FYI... It's a reflection of the lack of competition (servers+players) outside the EU.

This has at least in part to do with the majority of server operators in our area choosing to go down the path of private servers, which I grant you does keep out high ping users from wondering in but also makes it hard for newcomers to find their way into an Aussie LFS experience, thus over time contirbuting to a decline in local numbers.
This is an opinion I've held ever since getting LFS back in 2004 and why I've rarely join a passworded pickup racing server. You could also throw that back at the developers and say they have been too slow to setup local support but none the less it is a choice we have made for better or worse.

A discussion on the same topic was brought up a while ago.

http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=46541

I don't know if LFS tyres are "correct" or not but my feeling is that the difference between how slicks heat and cool and how treaded tyres behave in LFS is too similar.

I also agree with J.B. in that there is a very large range of tyre constructions out there in rl (rubber compounds, tread patterns and carcass constructions) so it stands to reason that there is a strong possibility that different tyres can behave in quite dramatically different ways to each other

Quote from mr grady :

Ive just seen a guy lose a winning position because someone joined midrace, left their garage and hit the leader in the pitlane, giving the leader a 30 second time penalty for "speeding".

Sam I don't think he is refering to when you are rejoining the track but more when you exit the garage into pit lane. If there are drivers in pit lane doing a pit stop or serving a penalty and you join mid race it can be quite difficult to see other activity in pit lane.

So having something that prevents them from entering the pit lane or at least warns them that there is traffic in the pit is a good idea imo especially in pick-up race servers

Quote from S14 DRIFT :

It doesn't help that the thread discussing it was closed, if you remember it got to "quite alot of posts" in a very short time.

And that right there is the most likely reason we don't see more progress reports

Quote from Chaos :

nice points guys, reconsidering this i would say that "one of the reasons, why the cars flip" are the too stiff suspensions...

I also suspect that the road tyres in LFS behave a little too much like slicks which in turn lends itself to stiffer setups, imo road tyres probably should be a little more subject to tyre load sensitivity on the outer side or perhaps a little less on the inner side I find the most natural feeling car/corner combos with the road cars are cars setup for mainly RH corners for example (i.e. positive camber on inside tyre) they just feel right (no pune intended ) I am probably are way off base though :/

Last edited by Glenn67, Wed, 12 Nov 2008 13:49.

Quote from danowat :

.

:smash3d: You hit the nail on the head. Except for me it's about racing with friends...

Quote from Mille Sabords :

and casual racers ("old farts with busy life")

Just because I keep saying that doesn't give you license young man

As for tracks bringing some of the older LFSers back, I'm not so sure LFS is continually evolving over time, some enjoy the path it's taking others don't.

Is this like a consumer confidence survey or something

Last edited by Glenn67, Wed, 12 Nov 2008 08:50.

seek an ye shall find

Quote from Becky Rose :

lol same sort of language on a different topic and I would think your a muslim extemist or a religious fanatic. Going for the shock and awe tac huh

Quote from NotAnIllusion :

iRacing is aimed at the mass market?

Your right it's not mass market in the traditional sense but they are aiming to a bigger market than LFS is currently. And your right about it being abit premeture for iracing to be tacking claim to the latest spot as well, only time will tell.

Quote from Tweaker :

This article is more about the progression of simulations. LFS was right in the middle of an era that has already passed, and is hard to recognize with the famous modding debacles that got loads more attention and return on producing new sims for the market (e.g. GTR). iRacing is starting a new era --- it's like GPL with a cherry on top.

omg tweak is still browsing these forums once an lfsforumer always an lfsforumer

As much as I am an LFS fan I do tend to agree with the article as it stands at the moment...

Last edited by Glenn67, Wed, 5 Nov 2008 08:32.