If people were really interested in realism in LFS they would support initiatives like NARA 
the reality is though that the vast majority are just seeking fun races against other humans in a resonably fair environment.
Most don't really give a toss about their controller being set to the correct deg of rotation for the car they are driving, using clutch and H-pattern shifter if they have got it, or such things as "realistic" views, most do use a controller setup and driving techniques that net them fast lap times with the least effort within the confines of what is accepted behaviour of the crowd.
That is all it is though - accepted behaviour - which in no way makes it more realistic than precieved unacceptable behaviour...
So to have a WR that was accomplished with acceptable or unacceptable behaviour only matters to people that want to be accepted by the crowd which in turn does not matter one jot in relation to realism. Just because the majority accept one way is legal and another is iligal does not in my mind make it a better way
The way I see it is that Scawen sets the parameters of the virtual world and therefore as long as you aren't tampering with the software that creates that vitual world how can it be considered wrong? That's not to say that I personally take advantage of such things but I have no problem with people that do (i.e. macro clutches, handbrake usage, etc) If it is so wrong then Scawen will no doubt takes steps to bring back a balance in the virtual world once more.
What I am trying to say is that I think it is upto Scawen to set what is acceptable and what is not and that public opinion doesn't really count for much
other than highlight possible flaws in the virtual world 
the reality is though that the vast majority are just seeking fun races against other humans in a resonably fair environment. Most don't really give a toss about their controller being set to the correct deg of rotation for the car they are driving, using clutch and H-pattern shifter if they have got it, or such things as "realistic" views, most do use a controller setup and driving techniques that net them fast lap times with the least effort within the confines of what is accepted behaviour of the crowd.
That is all it is though - accepted behaviour - which in no way makes it more realistic than precieved unacceptable behaviour...
So to have a WR that was accomplished with acceptable or unacceptable behaviour only matters to people that want to be accepted by the crowd which in turn does not matter one jot in relation to realism. Just because the majority accept one way is legal and another is iligal does not in my mind make it a better way
The way I see it is that Scawen sets the parameters of the virtual world and therefore as long as you aren't tampering with the software that creates that vitual world how can it be considered wrong? That's not to say that I personally take advantage of such things but I have no problem with people that do (i.e. macro clutches, handbrake usage, etc) If it is so wrong then Scawen will no doubt takes steps to bring back a balance in the virtual world once more.
What I am trying to say is that I think it is upto Scawen to set what is acceptable and what is not and that public opinion doesn't really count for much
other than highlight possible flaws in the virtual world
Last edited by Glenn67, .
I think it handles very well in LFS as it would in real life.
The issue that people have with it I suspect is that in a sim you just don't have the same feedback as you do irl and therefore it is just way too easy to overdirive it in LFS
So in LFS it is even more true that it is a car for experienced drivers even more so than irl The LRF cars need throttle control more than most cars in LFS, far too many can be driven with just on/off inputs for throttle with LRF you need more refinement than that
Alot of sets are compensating for they way people drive (digital type throttle inputs) as much if not more then they are correcting car handling flaws - this is also why there is a bent towards stiffer sets along with the tracks being too smooth
1) 0200 - 0400
2) 3hrs
3) 2 times a month on average
2) 3hrs
3) 2 times a month on average
He looked like he was one of the only blokes that knew how to drive in the wet in that race
the rest were still pretty much trying to stay on a dry race line You shouldn't be so hard on yourself m8
@ndiw - Hi
long time no see :Kick_Can_I've thought about making a similar device myself wanting something that is more compact and less desturbing to the household. I can not imagine a FD301/401 setup in any "normal" persons home even if it were cheap
What I would like to see is a simple, cheap device that gives you "seat of pants" cues which will add to imersion and give more natural feedback loops to the brain about what the car is doing. I can relate to your idea of moving the seat in relation to the wheel/pedals to fool the brain about forces/motion and think it has some good possibilities.
Ideally for my way of thinking it shouldn't be trying to simulate all or even most motion or forces in a race situation but just the important cues that a driver might percieve in different circumtstances (like understeer/oversteer/locked brakes etc.)
MRT with rallycross tyres?
And you have a good naming system! I often make tonnes of variations then don't do that combo again to return at a later date scratching my head about which one was good and which one was not
Even the linked clip proves that incorrect
He was using button look as much as any one else even with three screens and pit spotter! People that don't look and/or are unaware of their surroundings would be that way under any circumstances. People that setup three screens or add-on's like pit spotter show that they care and therefore would already be people that want to be mindful of their fellow racers I tried pit spotter myself when it first came out, found the constant audio bombadment annoying. Would much perfer a graphical warning system. But even better would be surround screens or VR
Also there actually is a fair few LFSer's that are differently able'd than the rest of use. Aren't we all here because this is as close to real life racing/driving/drifting we can get or at least a good alternative
Does the UF1 have torque
I've never noticed any But yes I guess your right, I tend to deliberately get it into an oversteer state on corner entry then use excesive in ward steering input in combo with floored throttle to control trajectory through appex.
I do this in the UF1 and sometimes the XFG but not in RWD cars
Agreed the tit far outwieghed the tat in this case as it often does
what's worse the complainer or the complainer basher? Everybody needs to learn to hold their tongue at times Your very normal and it is best to get one good all round setup and use it until your ability improves to 103 - 105% of WR before toying with setups much at all as you have rightly deduced
A great majority of people in LFS take sets from sites like setupgride or inferno and just tweak brakes for there preference most of the time. Although building sets can be very rewarding if you have the inclination and time.
This type of thread comes up every now an again - it always reminds me of the BRM V16 sound!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBKUQPjQ16I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBKUQPjQ16I
Setup changes will make the most noticable difference when you are able to consistently be within 103% of WR pace.
For me I regularly find the difference between two good setups can be 200 hundreds of a secend upto half a sec a lap. When I do the same comparison between a default set and good set it can be well over a second a lap.
For those that average arround 107% of WR pace I'd suspect that they would struggle to see any significant difference between sets - I'm not saying that's you.
Also setups can be quite interesting, you can take the same car/track combo and have two different setups from drivers that are within 101% of WR pace and find them very different to drive often requiring different driving styles to get the most out of a set.
Tyre temps wont make much difference when your safely within a tyres grip envolope, you will notice the difference in tyre temps once you can drive much closer to the edge of that envolope consistently. That ability is the difference between you, me and a multiple WR holder.
For me I regularly find the difference between two good setups can be 200 hundreds of a secend upto half a sec a lap. When I do the same comparison between a default set and good set it can be well over a second a lap.
For those that average arround 107% of WR pace I'd suspect that they would struggle to see any significant difference between sets - I'm not saying that's you.
Also setups can be quite interesting, you can take the same car/track combo and have two different setups from drivers that are within 101% of WR pace and find them very different to drive often requiring different driving styles to get the most out of a set.
Tyre temps wont make much difference when your safely within a tyres grip envolope, you will notice the difference in tyre temps once you can drive much closer to the edge of that envolope consistently. That ability is the difference between you, me and a multiple WR holder.
Last edited by Glenn67, .
I drive with one thumb at the six oclock position with one arm over the seat next to me so I can easily talk to the passengers in the back you know like most taxi drivers!
Serriously though 9 and 3
you know like most taxi drivers!Serriously though 9 and 3
even if we had the same ratio of players per capita we are still extremly thin on the ground 800 online in Europe is equivalent to 23 online in Aus, not even a full server
Then you have the issues of not all 23 want to do the same thing which is why you end up with servers of 3-6 average in Aus
Scawen hasn't made a comment on the issue so am not sure what the situation is from his perspective. From mine it is that the AC is not operating the same as BC or CL and therefore has a bug which causes the AC to have a disadvantage when compared to all other methods. This may have been done on purpose for balancing the clutch heat issues, not sure. If the AC was made to operate more like CL and BC which appears more realistic then there will be significantly less advantage to someone using a macro or BC (nearing zero advantage). Having said that it may have already been fixed in the last release - I have not had time to check to see.
I agree with your entire post and have similar experiences (on a lesser level obviously
) What you describe is one of the keys to the whole discussion imo. You have had enough track time, experience and support (from fellow races, teams etc) to derive base sets in which you are comfortable with on most any track car combo. I on the other hand aren't active enough to even remember which set is good and which is not let alone have several base sets I am comfortable with. So when I have a few spare hours in the once or twice a month I get the chance to fire up LFS I end up spending most of the time getting back in tune with LFS and finding a set I'm comfortable with - which usually requires taking an inferno set and making changes till it suites me.The other primary argument is about realism which imo will not be able to be done properly until certain physics and environment improvements take place.
Hopefully in about a month I can have more time to get back into LFS again, at that point I might even attempt to create a base set setup pack for my self and post it for interested parties.
When I played alot (mainly S1 to early S2) I could consistently run within 1% of WR pace on many combos and much closer on some. Since I don't have a life anymore and can't play LFS as much I struggle to get better than 104% of WR pace
so the amount of drive time you can get does effect you lap times, well at least for us mere mortals I personally don't want to see too much restriction of setup ranges but perhaps on some of the lower classes (i.e. STD cars) the increments could be abit more course.
I have personally had cases were I've driven with a set thats not specific to a track but a fast set for another similar combo and been struggling with lap times, then get a set thrown my way and within 5 laps have knocked 2 sec off my lap time. So I can understand were some are coming from with wanting restrictions.
Having said that I'd really hate to see much in the way of forced across the board restrictions on any of the cars in LFS. I'd much perfer that servers could set a spec for the cars to run on that server, so that the setup restrictions could be varied between servers and only in force on that server with that server also having the ability to distribute a base set for the spec. Not every one would use this feature I know but server operators like CTRA could use it to great effect.
This would add to LFS were across the board restricition of setup adjustment on certain classes of cars would imo detract from LFS as the ability to tinker with setups is a good and important feature of a racing sim.
In my mind alot of these issues will not be so pronouced down the road when track surfaces and conditions become variable and the tyre physics have recieved there next installment of improvements.
Your spot on Ducky
don't know what i was thinking (me brain is too rusty at the moment :razz Great to hear you got the gear you were after. Looking forward to the up coming season Interesting with a quick google search and some reading of different forums just how many people do use spool diffs (locked diff) in both racing and their street cars. The most common comment that stood out was that a locker is much more predictable than a LSD, which interestingly enough was the same reason it was so widely used in LFS...
Cough don't those mini spool diff act as an open dif in coast (power off) mode
that would make them turn in easy Got those new headers yet?
Last edited by Glenn67, .
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG