"Bite off more than you can chew and then chew like hell."~ Peter Brock
"Of course, the big aim now is to die without an enemy in the world. I'm going to outlive the bastards (Laughs)" ~ Sir Jack Brabham
You can't go past Murry Walker for one liners
"And now, excuse me while I interrupt myself." ~ Murray Walker
"Aerodynamics is for those who cannot manufacture good engines" ~ Enzo Ferrari
"When I raced a car last it was at a time when sex was safe and racing was dangerous. Now, it's the other way round." ~ Hans Stuck
"The crashes people remember, but drivers remember the near misses." ~ Mario Andretti
"It's amazing how many drivers, even at the Formula 1 level, think the brakes are for slowing the car down." ~ Mario Andretti
"It is necessary to relax your muscles when you can. Relaxing your brain is fatal." ~ Stirling Moss
"It is not always possible to be the best, but it is always possible to improve your own performance". ~ Jackie Stewart
"Cornering is like bringing a woman to a climax. Both you and the car must work together. You start to enter the area of excitement at the corner, you set up a pace which is right for the car and after you've told it it is coming along with you, you guide it along at a rhythm which has by now become natural. Only after you've cleared the corner you can both take pleasure in knowing it's gone well." ~ Jackie Stewart
"He who follows another is always behind" ~ Anon
"Race cars are neither beautiful nor ugly. They become beautiful when they win." ~ Enzo Ferrari
"If in doubt ... Flat out." ~ Colin McRae
"And so you touch this limit, something happens and you suddenly can go a little bit further. With your mind power, your determination, your instinct, and the experience as well, you can fly very high." ~ Ayrton Senna
"And suddenly I realised that I was no longer driving the car consciously. I was driving it by a kind of instinct, only I was in a different dimension." ~ Ayrton Senna
"I continuously go further and further learning about my own limitations, my body limitation, psychological limitations. It's a way of life for me." ~ Ayrton Senna
"I don't know driving in another way which isn't risky. Each one has to improve himself. Each driver has its limit. My limit is a little bit further than other's." ~ Ayrton Senna
"I have no idols. I admire work, dedication and competence." ~ Ayrton Senna
"These things bring you to reality as to how fragile you are; at the same moment you are doing something that nobody else is able to do. The same moment that you are seen as the best, the fastest and somebody that cannot be touched, you are enormously fragile." ~ Ayrton Senna
"You must take the compromise to win, or else nothing. That means: you race or you do not." ~ Ayrton Senna
"Of course, the big aim now is to die without an enemy in the world. I'm going to outlive the bastards (Laughs)" ~ Sir Jack Brabham
You can't go past Murry Walker for one liners
"And now, excuse me while I interrupt myself." ~ Murray Walker
"Aerodynamics is for those who cannot manufacture good engines" ~ Enzo Ferrari
"When I raced a car last it was at a time when sex was safe and racing was dangerous. Now, it's the other way round." ~ Hans Stuck
"The crashes people remember, but drivers remember the near misses." ~ Mario Andretti
"It's amazing how many drivers, even at the Formula 1 level, think the brakes are for slowing the car down." ~ Mario Andretti
"It is necessary to relax your muscles when you can. Relaxing your brain is fatal." ~ Stirling Moss
"It is not always possible to be the best, but it is always possible to improve your own performance". ~ Jackie Stewart
"Cornering is like bringing a woman to a climax. Both you and the car must work together. You start to enter the area of excitement at the corner, you set up a pace which is right for the car and after you've told it it is coming along with you, you guide it along at a rhythm which has by now become natural. Only after you've cleared the corner you can both take pleasure in knowing it's gone well." ~ Jackie Stewart
"He who follows another is always behind" ~ Anon
"Race cars are neither beautiful nor ugly. They become beautiful when they win." ~ Enzo Ferrari
"If in doubt ... Flat out." ~ Colin McRae
"And so you touch this limit, something happens and you suddenly can go a little bit further. With your mind power, your determination, your instinct, and the experience as well, you can fly very high." ~ Ayrton Senna
"And suddenly I realised that I was no longer driving the car consciously. I was driving it by a kind of instinct, only I was in a different dimension." ~ Ayrton Senna
"I continuously go further and further learning about my own limitations, my body limitation, psychological limitations. It's a way of life for me." ~ Ayrton Senna
"I don't know driving in another way which isn't risky. Each one has to improve himself. Each driver has its limit. My limit is a little bit further than other's." ~ Ayrton Senna
"I have no idols. I admire work, dedication and competence." ~ Ayrton Senna
"These things bring you to reality as to how fragile you are; at the same moment you are doing something that nobody else is able to do. The same moment that you are seen as the best, the fastest and somebody that cannot be touched, you are enormously fragile." ~ Ayrton Senna
"You must take the compromise to win, or else nothing. That means: you race or you do not." ~ Ayrton Senna
Last edited by Glenn67, .
There is a lot of variables involved! I can't say I've got my head around all the terminology commonly used in oval racing, one thing that stands out imediately though is what you see in the set up screen is on flat ground and what you race on is mostly banked corners - so that would mean that what you view in the set up screen really can only be used as a reference point and has little resemblance to what the actual balance of the car is at speed in the middle of a banked turn?
If I'm understanding you correctly then what you describe is the same or similar issue to what has been the case in LFS with tyre load sensetivies (i.e. outside tyre has too much grip compared to inside tyre)
Good post I see where your coming from and agree with much of it, especially about sterile-empty track environments and half baked damage model.
Like you say though it is a matter of perspective.
Taste in cars will dictate a lot if someone will like a Sim, LFS has a good selection of sedans so I like it, I've never given nkpro a go simply because I am not interested in driving open wheelers and iRacing I did put off for a long time because the content was too much centered around ovals of which I have little interest.
I have driven less than half a dozen laps on one oval and that's it, there are plenty of drivers even in Pro level road that haven't done much in ovals so it is feasable to use iRacing for road content only.
iRacing doesn't pretend to be a driving simulator and as such it's content is all racing related, the cars are based on real cars just real race cars. It has a good amount of V8 sedans which is what all Aussies want
so it appeals to Aussies a lot. It's something many in LFS have lemented there being a lack of over the years. The LX8 would have been great and/or a car similar to the XRR but V8 would have been very welcome to us Aussies, I get the impression that in Europe people aren't so keen on these style cars, but here and in the USA V8 cars are a big part of our culture so very desirable to have in our Sims. Some will not like it because of this others will love it. As to tracks I have confidence that we will continue to get new content and international content in iRacing including Aussie tracks which will certainly keep me interested going forward.
There is ways to race in iRacing to overcome most of your concerns/experiences, week13 for example has races were you don't have to worry about your ratings, there are hosted sessions and of course open practise sessions where if you get to know people you can have casual races or make up games like I do with a few guys where we take turn being in the lead defending with the follower trying to overtake or just do laps together. But you are right it want be for everyone.
As to the cost again a lot seem to get hung up on it, the reality is it isn't cheap and so many will not buy into it, that's life. For many though their perspective will be different, I recall buying games at $100 a pop to play for three weeks then never touch again and in a year probably buy four or five. These days I don't buy or play any other games so even if iRacing cost me $300 a year it is less than what I used to spend and as a bonus I get much more usage out of it, again you see it's perspective and again some will be ok with the cost while other will not...
Like you say though it is a matter of perspective.
Taste in cars will dictate a lot if someone will like a Sim, LFS has a good selection of sedans so I like it, I've never given nkpro a go simply because I am not interested in driving open wheelers and iRacing I did put off for a long time because the content was too much centered around ovals of which I have little interest.
I have driven less than half a dozen laps on one oval and that's it, there are plenty of drivers even in Pro level road that haven't done much in ovals so it is feasable to use iRacing for road content only.
iRacing doesn't pretend to be a driving simulator and as such it's content is all racing related, the cars are based on real cars just real race cars. It has a good amount of V8 sedans which is what all Aussies want
so it appeals to Aussies a lot. It's something many in LFS have lemented there being a lack of over the years. The LX8 would have been great and/or a car similar to the XRR but V8 would have been very welcome to us Aussies, I get the impression that in Europe people aren't so keen on these style cars, but here and in the USA V8 cars are a big part of our culture so very desirable to have in our Sims. Some will not like it because of this others will love it. As to tracks I have confidence that we will continue to get new content and international content in iRacing including Aussie tracks which will certainly keep me interested going forward.There is ways to race in iRacing to overcome most of your concerns/experiences, week13 for example has races were you don't have to worry about your ratings, there are hosted sessions and of course open practise sessions where if you get to know people you can have casual races or make up games like I do with a few guys where we take turn being in the lead defending with the follower trying to overtake or just do laps together. But you are right it want be for everyone.
As to the cost again a lot seem to get hung up on it, the reality is it isn't cheap and so many will not buy into it, that's life. For many though their perspective will be different, I recall buying games at $100 a pop to play for three weeks then never touch again and in a year probably buy four or five. These days I don't buy or play any other games so even if iRacing cost me $300 a year it is less than what I used to spend and as a bonus I get much more usage out of it, again you see it's perspective and again some will be ok with the cost while other will not...
I don't for a moment think iRacing tyre physics are perfect or even close to perfect for that matter, but neither do I think that about LFS's tyre physics. Both Sims have a way to go and both we know are working on these things specifically which can only mean good things going forward.
The area of physics were the race driver mostly focuses (limit of adhesion) is the least understood but most noticable aspect to the driver of tyre physics! If Adrian Newey of RBR says that it's 'the one area' of Formula 1 that is the most dificult to get good data and understand correctly then how much more so for a Sim developer even a developer like iRacing let alone Scawen!
I just think that iRacings physics aren't as wrong as some think. I think LFS and iRacing both have their strong points and weak points and that in the long run as they both develop further that the tyre models will most likely become more similar to each other in feel. But I also believe that without the additional sensory input we get in rl that it will always be more dificult to catch a slide in a Sim.
The point I make about drivers not driving on the absolute limit was maybe poorly worded, I don't doubt for a minute that every race driver drives to their full capabilities - what I was trying to convey though is that the limit of adhesion in rl is not as precise as in a Sim and a little fuzy if you like. This in itself would mean that you would be driving very close to the limit in rl and often a little over the limit but that it is far more dificult to drive precisely on the limit repeatedly in rl where in a sim it is easier to do (not saying its easy by any means, just easier).
I mostly have only driven the Solstice, Spec Racer Ford and V8Supercar on Road Courses in iRacing and at least in the SRF and V8S I find it quite ok in most circumstances with curbs and grass when my line is only marginly off (as I mentioned earlier even more forgiving than LFS in some circumstances). Maybe its different for other cars I don't know, I do find that I struggle in those same circustances a lot more while I'm going through the process of learning or relearning a track and/or making a new set, so iRacing is definately less forgiving when you don't get it right than LFS and most likely rl. There are numbers of anomalities though where certain curbs throw you more than they should or the grass in certain spots is less forgiving but overall I don't think it is terrible and is/will be improved as we go along the same is true for LFS also.
The area of physics were the race driver mostly focuses (limit of adhesion) is the least understood but most noticable aspect to the driver of tyre physics! If Adrian Newey of RBR says that it's 'the one area' of Formula 1 that is the most dificult to get good data and understand correctly then how much more so for a Sim developer even a developer like iRacing let alone Scawen!
I just think that iRacings physics aren't as wrong as some think. I think LFS and iRacing both have their strong points and weak points and that in the long run as they both develop further that the tyre models will most likely become more similar to each other in feel. But I also believe that without the additional sensory input we get in rl that it will always be more dificult to catch a slide in a Sim.
The point I make about drivers not driving on the absolute limit was maybe poorly worded, I don't doubt for a minute that every race driver drives to their full capabilities - what I was trying to convey though is that the limit of adhesion in rl is not as precise as in a Sim and a little fuzy if you like. This in itself would mean that you would be driving very close to the limit in rl and often a little over the limit but that it is far more dificult to drive precisely on the limit repeatedly in rl where in a sim it is easier to do (not saying its easy by any means, just easier).
I mostly have only driven the Solstice, Spec Racer Ford and V8Supercar on Road Courses in iRacing and at least in the SRF and V8S I find it quite ok in most circumstances with curbs and grass when my line is only marginly off (as I mentioned earlier even more forgiving than LFS in some circumstances). Maybe its different for other cars I don't know, I do find that I struggle in those same circustances a lot more while I'm going through the process of learning or relearning a track and/or making a new set, so iRacing is definately less forgiving when you don't get it right than LFS and most likely rl. There are numbers of anomalities though where certain curbs throw you more than they should or the grass in certain spots is less forgiving but overall I don't think it is terrible and is/will be improved as we go along the same is true for LFS also.
Last edited by Glenn67, .
I also know or know off many that have died because they were very comfortable with speed and haning the tail out, these are mostly kids in there 20s although one prominate example which happened not less than 10km from where I live was Peter Brock who had vast experience. While it can be done irl and often can feel easy or look easy if you take it for granted it can also kill, so perhaps is not as easy as it feels or we believe.
The fact is if you are well within the traction limit of a car and you hang the tail out its a whole different kettle of fish to being at or near the limit of adhesion before the tail steps out.
Some other facts are that road cars are designed to be 'safe' i.e. to have more predictable and controlable responses in emergency situtaions than race preped cars, even race engineers set up cars with their drivers ability in mind.
We also know that to detect a slide and react in a sim is never going to be as quick reaction as we can irl. Every hundreth of a second delay in reacting is a step closer to not being able to recover the slide, hence why in sim racing to be fast I am constantly pre-empting slides by semi correcting before they even happen.
Another fact is irl most drivers start well below the grip limit and slowly work up to the limit of adhesion, in Sim racing most tend to do the opposite we drive too hot and reduce our pace until we can stay on the track. That alone gives the impression of funcky physics compared to real life simply because our behaviour is so different.
These points all have been brought up in the past with LFS physics and aply to any sim physics. With all these things in mind I find that the physics are pretty good. I mean once you are in the right ball park with speed and line in a corner, if you do slide it is entirely catchable and if you spin it will not end up in a wall it will be semi controlable/predicatble.
I mean if you drive at 9/10ths on a track your familiar with you can drive it all day and control any slides that may happen, if you try do a whole race at 10/10s then the chances of you making an error of judgement and spinning are probably 10x higher. LFS physics and track environments are a little more predictable than iRacing atm and therefore will allow you to drive closer to 10/10s.
Irl I do not believe that drivers are able to drive that close to the limit as the 'limit' is different for every lap they do and so they can't get it perfect, which is why you do see the odd lap which is sometimes refered to as an 'lap of the Gods' as with Greg Murphy at Bathurst 2003 where he put it on pole by a second! If you look at that video that is how most Sim drivers try drive all the time then they wonder why the tyre physics are funky and they spin out more than irl
Were the reality is when a driver drives that close to the edge for an entire lap and pulls it off (i.e. it is actually quick and he doesn't crash) everyone shacks their heads in disbelief, were if you can't do that in Sim racing your slow
Some cars it is much more noticable than others, it all depends on the type of tyres, the car and how aggressive the setup is.
The Soltice being a rookie car with a mild fixed setup and most likely pretty hard wearing tyres will last the race distance no problem.
The V8 Supercar as an example will see a decent drop in lap times over the course of a race due to tyre degregation somewhere in the order of 0.5 -2 sec a lap depending on driver and setup. Also in the V8 Supercar (as an example) you will see that qualify sets and race sets do give a significant difference in lap time approx 0.5 - 1 sec as running a full-on qualify set in a race will see rapid tyre wear.
The Soltice being a rookie car with a mild fixed setup and most likely pretty hard wearing tyres will last the race distance no problem.
The V8 Supercar as an example will see a decent drop in lap times over the course of a race due to tyre degregation somewhere in the order of 0.5 -2 sec a lap depending on driver and setup. Also in the V8 Supercar (as an example) you will see that qualify sets and race sets do give a significant difference in lap time approx 0.5 - 1 sec as running a full-on qualify set in a race will see rapid tyre wear.
Ah ok I haven't done anything with the ovals at all so can't compare in that case, one thing I note though with ovals is you would be near the limit of grip a much greater proportion of the time than on a road course.
About your comment to Sim set up verses real life though, I'm damn sure in a real life a set up it is compromise between fast and what is drivable for a race distance. In any Sim set up you are not so much compromised by what is drivable as you can practise without restriction until you get it perfect also you do not have the same physical forces being exertion against your body making it easier to cope with a fast set that is not comfortable to drive and the concequences for crashing are fare less reaching in a Sim so therefore you as a driver are likely to be much more willing to drive a set you know is fast but more dificult to drive. So I guess I question if race engineers would set up the car for their drivers just purely on lap time and with no regard to drivability over a race distance, I have certainly read and heard the opposite
Last edited by Glenn67, .
I do recognise what your saying there, and have found that most times getting a decent set off someone running prety close to WR times (i.e. in the top 5) solves most of those situations along with adapting driving style. So not sure if it is all physics related or not, keeping in mind that LFS allows greater flexibility in set up options generally. I also note that especially with the diff's in LFS I've felt odd traits as well in the physics, fortunately though with the introduction of preload, etc that can be tuned out and with the flywheel inertia introduced I think the situation improved also.
iRacing has and is going along similar development lines to LFS and in the short time I've been with them I have seen changes in the physics in several areas including throttle response, tyres and transmissions. So both Sims will no doubt continue to improve in key areas of physics.
It will be very interesting to try LFS on the new lasrer scanned track and tyre physics
Thats the thing I'm trying to discribe though LFS feels too precise and clinical with its environment and perhaps evan its physics because you can repeat sector after sector within a few 100ths of a sec, in iRacing you can do conisitent laps yes but it feels much more organic and a little less predictable sector after sector, which is why I never feel like I'm hitting a wall in it as much as in LFS.
As I said though that can be down to a number of things, the track environment, set up parameters (you can tune cars in LFS to well - i.e. brakes, very small adjustment increments and large ranges for most set up parameters) and physics. It's the whole package that determines the feel not just one area.
Last edited by Glenn67, .
It's far easier to hold a drift in LFS - meaning the tyre model is more progressive when past maximum cornering grip (some would argue this is more correct some would argue the opposite). iRacings grip is also quite forgiving when you have the correct line and speed through a corner probably more so than LFS but if you get it wrong in any way it's less forgiving than LFS which is where most peoples first impressions come from. iRacing's low speed grip doesn't feel wrong were LFS's always has. And pretty much every other aspect is comparable
As I said earlier one thing that has always stood out to me as a driver of both Sims is that in iRacing I always feel there is a better time available to me by getting everything more correct. In LFS I often felt like I was hitting a wall, I knew psychologically that I could go quicker but often felt I couldn't - it's hard to put into words... and is probaly as much the track detail as the physics.
As I said earlier one thing that has always stood out to me as a driver of both Sims is that in iRacing I always feel there is a better time available to me by getting everything more correct. In LFS I often felt like I was hitting a wall, I knew psychologically that I could go quicker but often felt I couldn't - it's hard to put into words... and is probaly as much the track detail as the physics.
LFS has definately focused on being a Sim for all people which means amoung other things that they have very diliberately aimed for a low price point for affordability and they also have very diliberately aimed to ensure LFS can run on older hardware and require no additional input or outpout devices other than what comes standard on your PC. LFS has excelled at this.
iRacing is not in any way trying to reach or satisfy this end of the market so it's demands on hardware and expectations of setup are quite different.
I started out in LFS with an xbox controller and old PC - I couldn't imagine enjoying iRacing with such a set up at all, where with LFS it would still be fun even today. Towards the end of my run in LFS though I had a reasonably descent racing rig with a new PC, tripple screens and G25. Going from LFS to iRacing with this hardware I found the experience was more than good enough to keep me coming back for more...
True that does bother me a little if iRacing closed its doors tomorrow I'd have nothing.
If LFS closes its doors tomorrow I'd still have the game to drive but possibly not be able to drive online (although I can't see scavier closing doors entirely ever, for as long as they continue to get enough new lic purchases to cover the Master Server costs it wouldn't make sense)
Same can be said for iRacing though the revenue stream that iRacing generates pretty much garrantees it will be around for a few years at least, the only reasons for it to cease to exist is poor management of the company and lack of new content/inovation. I think they have that pretty well covered for the time being and therefore don't see that as a huge risk.
What you don't mention is that you can continue your subscription at a future time and not repay for all that content again.
I'd highly recommend anyone contemplating iRacing to test the waters first by going with a promotional offer and avoiding the temptation to buy extra content. If you absolutely hate the base content I wouldn't go further.
I liked the solstice and spec racer ford. Spec Racer Ford is still one of my favourite cars only being beaten by the V8Supercar and possibly equal to the CV6 in terms of pleasure of driving.
Anyway as with any purchase you make in life it is your responsibility to ensure you carry out due dilligence other wise you do run the risk of being ripped off.
If LFS closes its doors tomorrow I'd still have the game to drive but possibly not be able to drive online (although I can't see scavier closing doors entirely ever, for as long as they continue to get enough new lic purchases to cover the Master Server costs it wouldn't make sense)
Same can be said for iRacing though the revenue stream that iRacing generates pretty much garrantees it will be around for a few years at least, the only reasons for it to cease to exist is poor management of the company and lack of new content/inovation. I think they have that pretty well covered for the time being and therefore don't see that as a huge risk.
What you don't mention is that you can continue your subscription at a future time and not repay for all that content again.
I'd highly recommend anyone contemplating iRacing to test the waters first by going with a promotional offer and avoiding the temptation to buy extra content. If you absolutely hate the base content I wouldn't go further.
I liked the solstice and spec racer ford. Spec Racer Ford is still one of my favourite cars only being beaten by the V8Supercar and possibly equal to the CV6 in terms of pleasure of driving.
Anyway as with any purchase you make in life it is your responsibility to ensure you carry out due dilligence other wise you do run the risk of being ripped off.
Your exused because that is a very well thought out and constructed response of which I agree with
Definately iRacings biggest issue in compariosn to LFS is the structure and feel of community interaction both online and off. I'd have to say that that is the one thing (if I had to name one thing) that did keep me in LFS for as long as I was and is still an attraction. iRacing is improving in that area but has a long way to go to catch up - LFS is light years ahead in that area you will get no argument from me
Your choice to buy a year though instead of a shorter time frame is still a risk you choose and therefore I still think it is a bit rich to call iRacing rip off bastards for the choice you made
For anything you buy in life if you buy quantity you get a better deal, why should subscription racing be any different? That's the only issue I had...@lizardfolk - it's good that they are making an attempt with the friend system but it is still very awkward to use in comparison to LFS...
Last edited by Glenn67, .
I've known people that have bought a house then have decided it's not what they want and sell soon after. Does that make the seller a rip off bastard? If you paid out for a year before you knew for sure you would use it then it's your fault not iRacing
Just like when people buy LFS S2 and later complain that its still not a full product Yeah I know you were just trolling
While I know where you are coming from (I used to think the same) the structure they have is not entirely ilogical, as it is relatively expensive (compared to other choices) only those that feel the price for testing is reasonable are likely to spend the amounts necessary to get good benifet from the product. So effectively they are reaching their target audience
Anyways thats enough waffaling from me for a while lol Reality is I have loved both sims and will continue to do so into the forseeable future
Last edited by Glenn67, .
Yeah I keep forgetting that our government puts huge taxes on such things
I was going to say the same there has been ample opportunites to try iRacing for free. Recently they had a fathers day gift voucher for free trials which you could give to anybody. But tbo I would not recommend iRacing to those that are not willing to spend a lot more than $12 bucks.
You need to be willing to spend upwards of $100 bucks to get good well rounded content from iRacing and for many I understand that just isn't an option, for many other's though it is still a very reasonable price. I can do six laps in a V8Supercar for the same as most content and a two year subscription in iRacing. I still have spent far more on my racing rig than on the racing software (x10) so it is a 'cheap' form of racing for me. If I was to go for one weekend of racing it would cost as much as my whole setup in many circumstances.
Wyatt also was very good in LFS prior to iRacing (I remember meeting him around 2005 in LFS in his first few days weeks). To be fair though it isn't because iRacing is a better sim that got Wyatt a drive but by the support of iRacing by the US racing community. Something that LFS has had a little success but hasn't put in the same resources and effort to attract more interest from the Euorpe racing community.
Well that would be like deciding if you like LFS S2 by trying LFS version S1G
If you think $12 bucks is a lot then definately dont try iRacing, I paid more than that just for a battery lead today, I pay more than that for a botttle of red, more than that for a pack of smokes, much more than that for a tank of fuel
I spend about that much each time I buy lunch, $12 bucks is a bargin! 
LFS though has been an absolute steel for the amount of fun and use I've had out of it 2004-2009...
Also interesting how many of the physics purists from 2004-2006 timeframe on LFS forums now are in iRacing. Not to say that LFS will not catch back up or even suparse in the next release though, will be interesting to see and test when it finally comes out
Last edited by Glenn67, .
In LFS I had to spend time getting all my hardware just right to get a good experience, along with familiarising myself with the physics and then there was setting up the car properly. Once I had a grasp on these things driving became like in real life and that is second nature. The same is true of my experience in iRacing. Biggest adjustment for LFSer's trying iRacing is I suspect locking tyres under braking as you cant just mash the brake pedal as there is no Max Brake Pressure setting in iRacing, second to that is that a little more throttle control is required in most cases in iRacing than LFS especially away from the rookie cars.
iRacing has car and tracks that I have longed for LFS to get and there is some talk of Bathurst and other Aussie tracks being included at later stages, so for the time being I can't go past iRacing
iRacing doesn't have to be all serious either there are demolition derby events held regularly here in Aus on hosted servers and I have found a few like minded individuals who I hang out with in open practise servers doing laps, chatting, etc just the same as I have done in the past in LFS
As for setup changes etc once you get away from the rookie cars the setup options are fairly comparable to LFS. As for seeing what different setup changes do what more do you need other than tyre temp/pressure readings, lap timing and driver feedback?
I still like LFS a lot and will no doubt upgrade to S3 and try any new patches but for me the content of iRacing has the edge and the physics feel to me at least is as good and better in most areas.
One thing I love about iRacing is that I always feel I can go abit faster get a bit more out of every car and track that I race on. I didn't get that same feeling in LFS.
iRacing has car and tracks that I have longed for LFS to get and there is some talk of Bathurst and other Aussie tracks being included at later stages, so for the time being I can't go past iRacing
iRacing doesn't have to be all serious either there are demolition derby events held regularly here in Aus on hosted servers and I have found a few like minded individuals who I hang out with in open practise servers doing laps, chatting, etc just the same as I have done in the past in LFS
As for setup changes etc once you get away from the rookie cars the setup options are fairly comparable to LFS. As for seeing what different setup changes do what more do you need other than tyre temp/pressure readings, lap timing and driver feedback?
I still like LFS a lot and will no doubt upgrade to S3 and try any new patches but for me the content of iRacing has the edge and the physics feel to me at least is as good and better in most areas.
One thing I love about iRacing is that I always feel I can go abit faster get a bit more out of every car and track that I race on. I didn't get that same feeling in LFS.
Well that is difficult u see as the F4 line wasn't over there till Rubens pulled out of the draft
they have more advanced F4 lines in F1 than in LFS u know...Well m8 he was just off line and was getting back on line and because he had the f4 race line on he new the correct race line was over there by the pit wall
so he was getting back online quick smart Quote from Shumi
On the footage I saw it was very obvious that shumi looked in both mirrors and timed his move precisely when Rubens commited to a line. At the end of the day both driver were not going to give it up, they both drove to very fine limits which is a credit to both drivers.
Personally though I don't like seeing drivers pushing others into a wall weather it is Webber, Vettel, Shumi or Rubens. Although it always makes it more interesting afterwards.
On the footage I saw it was very obvious that shumi looked in both mirrors and timed his move precisely when Rubens commited to a line. At the end of the day both driver were not going to give it up, they both drove to very fine limits which is a credit to both drivers.
Personally though I don't like seeing drivers pushing others into a wall weather it is Webber, Vettel, Shumi or Rubens. Although it always makes it more interesting afterwards.
Well good to see Vettel is as pissed as Mark has been previosly, should make for a continued good battle to end of year
Hotlapper
Hotlapper
Nice win and reward for 150th 
Podium should be interesting
Podium should be interesting
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG