Quote from thisnameistaken :

There is only one real benefit from using a clutch pedal in LFS: In the road cars you can shift up faster than the auto-clutch shift. In the race cars (XFR and up) the auto-clutch is so fast that there is no benefit from clutching manually.

But you also lose time in braking areas and corners; there's the delay from switching to the brake pedal and back again with your right foot, and it's harder to do a smooth transition from brake to throttle and keep the car stable in the corners. You're also more likely to mis-time shifts completely, or miss the brake pedal completely when twisting your foot to bring it over the brake (it's embarrassing when this happens!), etc.

In short: Racers using a clutch pedal are at a disadvantage, but we do it because we think it's more fun.

With practise I don't even think there would be a significant advantage in the upshifts for clutch users I'm already managing very fast and clean shifts with no noticable clutch heat on my momo two pedal setup.

So racing with a clutch pedal is a disadvantage all around still but your right it would be much more fun and because of that I am having a very hard time restraining myself from rushing out and buying an G25 or alternatively building my own pedal setup

@ pwrslave - I thought that also. For me it's actually been the opposite, I've actually been reluctant to push LFS as a true simulator up until now. While the physics felt good I didn't really feel it was or could be classified as a simulator but now that has changed quite abit and I can feel comforatble to push LFS as a simulator on PC to those that drive as a passion in real life

Last edited by Glenn67, Thu 13 Dec 2007, 01:04.

Quote from JohnPenn :

First of all I've not tried the patch yet, but regarding the loss of Digital speedo, I admit I have become addicted to it lately, using it as a benchmark or guide for lap times,I,m so glad I can now go cold turkey
The car Tell's you when you get a corner right That for me is what makes LFS so special, Maybe now I will watch the track more, think about my line more, instead of having to get XXMPH through t1

I think this change is a good move in the long term for LFS.

That is exactly how I was I had digital speedo and was always conscoius of my mid corner speeds. I also used to flatshift the hell out of all cars oh and did I mention that up until recently (last 3-6 months) I've used almost exclusivly custom wheels view

My observations regarding Test Patch X30:

1. Engine Inertia: - I have been driving with the limited slip diff's since preload was introduced some time ago, not because it was better than locked diff but because it should be!
I was always bothered by the rpm pulldown on the LSD in the transient section of corner entry. With the improved engine inertia model this problem is gone totally which allows more realistic setup of the diff and has made a HUGE improvement in the realism and handling of the cars. Before I found how the cars handle in LFS to be good but not totally believable now it is good enough to actually be believable. There is far greater imersion in this aspect of the game than there has ever been, you can now drive more by feel than you could ever do in the past. It's come along way baby

2. Removal of Digital Speedo: - Was a little worried that my beloved digital readout was being removed but jumped into the new patch with a positive view. Still have virtual dials as I can actually see them may change in the future with three monitor setup
Anyway have found now I am looking at the RPM as much if not more than the speedo for corner speed and suspect as time goes on a quick glance at rpm every now an then is all I need. I find it isn't actually so critical with the improved handling to get the corner perfect as you can feel the car better at the limit than previously.
So I think its removal adds to the immersion and give a level playing field. I look forward to the times when racing is much more raw and not just hotlapping and this imo is a step in the right direction

3. Clutch Modeling: - again was a little concerned how it was going to effect gameplay (as I flat shift the hell out of everything) and only have a momo wheel (no clutch). Prior to trying patch was thinking I'd probably need to update to G25.
The first try in an XFG I was getting quite abit of clutch heat (just hitting red) due to old habits. Noticed straight away that if you flat shift the clutch slipped for a second as revs matched which generated alot of heat. So started to practise different methods of changing gear and lifting off to reduce clutch heat. Quickly adapted to it and gotta say I love it as it adds a whole new dimension to the racing experience adding to the immersion level

4. AI improvements: - huge improvements in the AI! A few things still bother me with them though. Their skills at recovering from incidents suck if there is another car in the way they will persist in trying to drive through it. And I haven't tried them extensively yet but I'd still love to see the AI learn from the human players somehow, be interesting to see if they do now. But I suspect they don't.

Overall I absolutly love the New LFS I find the immersion level has jumped up several notches, and think that over the next few months we will start to see quite different setups than we have seen in the past. Hopefully more realitic.
It already seems to me that more realistic diff setups are easier on the clutch and I suspect camber angles might come down abit as well as the cars are behaving quite differently in the transient sections of corners.

Last edited by Glenn67, Thu 13 Dec 2007, 00:43.

Quote from ajp71 :

Go team Australia

Hmm I object to being alluded to as a lagger, from my perspective its all you guys that are lagging

Quote from UruNico2641 :

I am getting sick of this... and I can't get S2... this just sucks...

About the time of patch releases this activity is always higher, give it a week or two and it will die back down

Quote from R.Kolz :

I´m afraid this new patch might be a difficult implementation for LFS endurance racing.

Give it some time.

It will take some time for everyone to get out of hotlap mode and start driving in a more realistic way, once that happens it want be an issue.

Also there will still probably be some fine tunning of the clutch heat model so would wait for then for final thoughts. So far I find it quite good, have been able to drive most cars with minimal clutch heat build up.


What is endurance racing about if not about racing with an awareness of not damaging mechanical components? I think its a good thing for endurance racing and will only improve the further we go along the LFS development cycle.

IRL I've seen the top contender of a 1000km race crashed out after the 1st corner because he overheated the clutch on start and then couldn't get acceleration or speed down next straight - in a pack of 30+ cars one didn't see him limping along and rear ended him - end result race over. If he didn't get cleaned up the clutch still would have taken at least a full lap to recover while being way off pace.

Also don't forget that most old setups will probably make clutch overheating worse, setups will have to go through a whole new development cyle now

I tested it for about 5 - 6 hours last night and gotta say I'm impressed

Before people used to say LFS physics were close to real life - I used to think yeah there not bad, I can imagine driving like that. Now I drive and it really feels like I'm driving, I don't need imagination any more the emerssion has jumped up a whole bunch of notches for me - so for me its definately moving in the right direction.

I think it will make the racing experience much much more realistic - imagine now these changes along with dynamic racing line, live track (rubble, oil, etc), mechanical considerations extended to engine wear/heating, brakes wear heating, etc, etc dynamic weather temp/wet etc

Quote from JTbo :

With Axus set there is more grip and stability on corner entry but at mid corner all that grip just seem to disappear.

Your set indeed feels easier to drive, I'll give you that and actually I tested yours and axus's again (haven't driven in awhile) and got similar lap times out of them both (best on both was low 1:20xxs and average of 1:21:00)

I have to say though I can get your set just as out of control as you did with axus's set so really I think your observations are abit biased as you know your set really well and dont know axus set all that well.

I'd sugest that the time your loosing is actually by slowing too much mid corner so you can floor it on corner exit with your set and you are actually driving your set well within the limits of grip mid corner rather than at the limit

With your set I tend to carry at least 5km/hr more than you on average through the corners and feather the throttle more on corner exit rather than just flooring it

I dont think your set is all that bad it just comes down to driver style I guess.

P.s. a little bit of drift on corner entry doesn't seem to hurt lap times in the LX6 infact it may even help

Quote from JTbo :

Glenn, you are nasty, you did spill oil on track

LOL stop being a girl you didn't give it a good enough try

I watched both replays and instantly saw you were going faster into the corners with axus's oil set, so it was giving you confidence on corner entry more than your set did, you just were driving beyond the limits of grip on corner exit because of increased momentum so clearly its a better set

If you want a shooping cart set I'll see if I can dig one up

Quote from Leprekaun :

Hi all! something that I feel like I'm reaching these days is a form of insanity. No joke, I do mean it. I appreciate the driving ability of such drivers as Bawbag, hannu, flotch, Biohazard and biggi (and any of the other usual WR setters if I forgot to mention)....
So, do you believe that if someone were to work hard enough that they can be as good or better as the best or should I just give up hope and just depress myself?

imo the difference between the top few percent of truely quick drivers and the rest of us in LFS is that the majority of us seek to learn the skills of driving secondary to learning the tracks (i.e. we focus way too much attention to emulating WR lap time rather than mastering driving skills)

I think mastering the cars and physics of LFS is the first prority to being a top driver and then you will have the ability and confidence to attack the top drivers on any track combo by searching out the fastest way around a circuit. What I am trying to say is don't get caught up trying to emulate lines etc and just doing hundreds of laps searching for a few more fractions of a millisec. Instead if your quite abit off pace (more than 0.3s) question yourself on whether or not your technique can be improved or if there is a faster technique. It's common to see guys doing almost identical lines etc but being as much as 1 sec different in lap times and that is mostly down to better techniques imo.

Quote from Boris Lozac :

In my case, on demo server, but licenced.. What can i do, our demo server is always full with people from my country and it's cool to race with them and learn them some tricks.. so yea, it could be that..

There is nothing wrong with that I've got two S2 Licenses and have done a total of 56,000km on both but have done at least ten times that in demo I get as much enjoyment out of meeting new people and helping them out as having good racing. Also for my timezone it was the only way to actually get a race in a road car alot of times

That's why I could recognise your situation so easily

The last few months I haven't had much time for LFS and when I do I am really enjoying taking the LX6 for a spin usually I end up in a server with one or two others only but the LX6 is such a pleasure to drive I could drive it all by myself and still be happy lol

Try this setup I got from Axus (one he is still working on) I like it quite alot

Quote from Boris Lozac :

sorry kinda off topic but i wanted to see if someone else maybe feels that...

you obviously spent too much time in demo at some point and your brain has irreversible XFG BL1 pattern syndrom so its no longer possible to be normal again at one point I thought this to be incurable myself, but have found that large doses of LX6 have gone along way to curing the problem but like any addiction I still have to manage it because I find it very easy to slip backwards again
Maybe there should be a blackwoods anonymous consoling group here somewhere

Fast approaching patch schizophrenia syndrom seems to be in epidemic proportions at the moment

Quote from tristancliffe :

I think it's a problem with the combining of lateral and longitudinal tyre modelling, as well as having slightly 'soft' tyre carcasses.

And the fact that tyre heat seems to be generated by friction rather than heat produced by manipulation of rubber (i.e. the disipation of energy as heat) It's the latter that generates most of the tyre heat irl.

I'll have a look purely for the learning exercise, does that make me geeky?

I'll need a day or two to look at it (inbetween work and house reno's) probably want be of much help to you though

Quote from Impreza WRX :

Throttle while separating the clutch? Good thing LFS doesn't simulate clutch wear!

Even if it did the average public pick up race is 5 laps then you would get a new one so it would last

I do two jobs and work 7 days a week so be thankfull you have 1 day off

Quote from Jakg :

I was experienced enough at LFS so that I could turn up at any track in any car with a setup i've never driven before (but a decent one) and still set fairly decent laps

Conversaly an experienced LFSer can drive almost any half decsent set to close to WR lap times also so I guess it's personal choice

Quote from March Hare :

Is it stupid to use one general set for all the tracks?

No it's not stupid at all, for all the reasons you stated

I tend to do the same, find a set I feel gives me great confidence to do consistent laps then use it on all tracks. The only thing I do is adjust brake balance/max pressure and camber angles for each location (i.e. a version of the same set for WE, FE BL, SO and AS tracks.

I just adjust brake balance/ max pressure to ensure the car is stable on the selected track under braking, and the camber angle I adjust to get my desired temp profile accross the tyre after 5 or so laps.

If you are under 1 sec from WR pace then a specific setup for that track will help, but for most of us having a car that handles well is more important and that can be achieved with one setup and minor variations having said that I mostly race the road cars, throw aero into the equation and it probably is abit more complicated.

Quote from [DUcK] :

Just try to give alot of racing room, and on starts don't try anything desperate, because with the lag you won't get away with it... Trust me, I know

That's my excuse for lame racecraft!

1. AI
2. Aero

There isn't really any such thing as an ideal setup, your setup looks reasonable

Having said that you will probably evolve the way you like your setup over time as your driving style develops, if you are now managing to go around some high speed corners abit quicker than before you might try slightly higher camber angles. Other than that it is pretty much personal taste i.e. what gives you the most confidence.

If you can identify any area's that you are not happy with when driving i.e. corner entry, trail braking, apex, corner exit, etc and what it feels like (oversteer, understeer, unstable, etc), I'm sure someone could help you out plenty of setup wizard about in lfs.

Everything has cycles it's leading up to xmas (some working more) and alot have just finished all thier exams (so have been studying more, and now will be partying more)

Plenty of aussies around anyway, it's just that they are all on drift servers

LFS is a niche game and Australia just doesn't have the poplulation other regions have so we will always struggle with numbers I guess I suggest we all get out there and spam other aussie car/game related forums about LFS

Quote from RudiTurbo :

I really hope S2 full will be released soon and we can be sure that our hotlaps will have a long life until S3, so we could really push for them and hopefully the online handicaps will be gone too

You mean a long life like 1 to 2 years? oh wait... sry couldn't resist

Quote from tristancliffe :

even if you come from China, who produce some of the smelliest people in the world!

That post made me laugh

O/T btw did you know that chinese people think we westerners stink also it has to do with the differences in our diets mostly

As to biggie not racing online much, alot of the older LFSers dont anymore doesnt mean he doesnt have racecraft just means he doesnt find the public servers as fun as hotlapping, that view can easily be understood at times.

Looking at his LFSWorld stats we see he has:
finished 634 races
been 1st in 402 of those
second in 124
and third in 54 that means he is on the podium 90+% of the time appears his racecraft is just fine

Anyway I have great respect for both of them and for that matter sidi and tristian and jtbo and J.B. and Gunn and well anyone that has been here longer than 5 mins

Last edited by Glenn67, Thu 22 Nov 2007, 23:03.

Quote from Leprekaun :

Ah! but sir, you stated in your signature that you find it hard to make a post without the word volvo in it . What you have revealed is that, true, the letters of the word Volvo do exist in your post but they have not been put together in succession to form a word so your post still stands in contradiction with your statement

No not a crontradicition it just shows that the thousnads of dollars he is spending on thearapy is finaly working