Quote from Intrepid :

RBR should win this. They have the right tyres and clearly the pace

Big up Luizzi as well

Yeah it will be very interesting to see how long the option tyres would last on a full tank of fuel...

Quote from amp88 :

If Hamilton doesn't get a penalty for running out of fuel we should see everyone doing it for the rest of the season. Why carry a kilo or two more fuel than you need to? It's going to be interesting to see the strategy unfold tomorrow.

I don't know how are the regulations worded.
But apparantly he should still have fuel in the tank (for some fuel samples), just that he switched the engine off.

PS. where are the tables at the press conference~? So now the drivers can't do a leg fight under the table any more~?

Quote from BenjiMC :

Wooo, and then pushing the car home lol

and then the race organiser shouting sorry I need you to do the weighting and the press conference, so we'll give you a lift back to the pits and our guys would get the car back for you...

Quote from BreadC :

no the governments/track owners have to pay bernie 100's of millions before hand

which is why ticket prices are so exspensive that is how the circuits claw some of its revenue back

I was basically saying that's why Bernie wouldn't give a hoot about ticket sales, it's none of his business really... XD

Quote from Intrepid :

...as long as there are Governments willing to spend vast amounts of money on hosting GPs I don't think he really cares how many turn up to actually watch it in the flesh. He still gets the millions watching it on TV anyway!

Besides, Bernie doesn't get a penny from the ticket sales anyway. What he get is the advertising (track side), selling broadcasting rights, and the millions paid by whoever from each track/GP organisers.

Quote from JJ72 :

6mins of endless understeer, what a pain to watch.

close call with the guard rail at 1:47!

that's a not-too-old Alfa after all...

Quote from 5haz :

There needs to be less of an obsession with constructors and more emphasis on the drivers who are the ones doing the racing, racing is after all is what everyone supposedly turns up for.

Quite right, lately I only watch the starts, finishes and any incidents so I know what everyone is talking about.

I don't see what is normal about not racing in a race.

Because thats not racing.

I could understand Hamilton or Button backing off if they were alone on the track with many seconds to spare over the next car, but they were in a position to race eachother and I think its awful that people seem to think its wrong that Button chose to have a race, regardless how how many times teams have opted for an easy 1-2 before, it still isn't right.

Unfortunately, it's also the team that pay the drivers their salaries, and no team would want a driver that doesn't obey to their instructions/decisions on a continual basis.

They were in a position to race each other only because Lewis thought the race was effectively over, but Jensen didn't. Which is also exactly why Lewis asked the question on the radio to begin with. If the team answered back Jensen was going to race him, do you think he'd push harder?
If you look at the replay from Jensen's onboard again, Lewis must have been on a very lean fuel mixture, that's how Jensen caught him massively despite being quite far back coming out of turn 9/10.

And to sum it up in one sentence, perhaps you are taking the word "racing" too literally.

Quote from 5haz :

And that would be why Button finished second I suppose.

A 1-2 sure is a heck of a lot better than a 3rd and a DNF. Which was what happened to the Red Bulls, and exactly what McLaren was trying to avoid.

Quote from BenjiMC :

How can you be so sure it didn't?

Button is guilty of not being a team player. Simple.

Like i said, 5 races to go i would understand your point, but so early in the season, along with what happened to the RBRs, Button was wrong.

I think Button was guilty of not understanding what the team really meant. Or perhaps he pretend he didn't.

He had his one go, and he backed right off after his one and only go failed. Perhaps more was said on the radio than just the fuel saving is "critical".

Quote from 5haz :

See this is the problem, this is a race, for starters the cars should have enough fuel to finish the race at the fastest possible pace, this isn't endurance racing!

Button was in striking distance of Hamilton and Hamilton needed to defend. Now in the days before the rot set in Button would do his best to catch Hamilton and Hamilton would do his best to defend his position within the rules, this is a racing! Now however the drivers are expected to go easy on eachother and there is a need to save fuel in a bloody sprint race! This is one of the main reasons why there is a lack of overtaking and excitement in F1, because the very racing spirit which F1 developed from in the first place is being watered down.

Essentially they are being told not to race, so why are they even there? Why don't they just do away with the car parade and auction GP wins off the the highest bidder? It'd be a lot quicker and easier for everyone involved that way.



His words were "If I back off, will Button overtake me?", it's common sense that Button will overtake him given the chance, and Hamilton is asking the team if Button will overtake him, not if he is doing the same thing.

Hamilton should've known the real answer already.



Just because team orders have been around for a while dosen't make them acceptable.

Then I guess Formula One isn't suitable for you to watch any more, nor was it suitable for many years already.

You're the only one making a big fuss on something most people felt was normal.

Racing is one thing, and as I said earlier, in order to finish first, first you got to finish. And Lewis obviously thought that's what McLaren was telling their drivers to do, cruise it to the finish and bag the one-two. What's so much wrong in asking the team about that just to make sure?

Quote from 5haz :

The point is, its ridiculous that Hamilton was asking that kind of question in the first place, he should've known that Button was going to try and race him. Or should Mclaren have to remind him every so often that he is in a motor race and that other competitors might try to pass him at some point?!

Actually, that is essentially what Hamilton wants Mclaren to do already, so not as outlandish as it may seem. :doh:

And as for Button's interests being shelved in favour of Hamilton's, it may not be official and there may not be any words said about it, but it is implied. Its not hard to see that the attiutude is there within the team.

Have I missed something of has F1 become completely staged now?



I wouldn't be pleased that I'd lost a position, who would? But I wouldn't have even asked the question to begin with, because I would've realised that Button was always going to try and make a pass because thats how motor racing works!

they are teammates after all. And I don't see much wrong about asking the team whether his teammate were going to race him.

And yes you are missing something for years. It have happened for many years to hold position in order to bag a safe 1-2. Which is exactly what the Red Bulls didn't do (but their 1-2 weren't safe, for McLaren it definitly was after the RBs took themselves out). It isn't staged, F1 is also a team sport. And as the Red Bulls proved time and time again this year, to finish 1st, first you got to finish. And I don't see anything wrong with McLaren making sure both cars made the finish in a safe manner.

PS. team orders for hold position is one thing, and it's quite another (and forbidden) if they ordered Button through to get the win, despite him being in a higher position in the championship table.

Quote from JPeace :

No, thats one person's opinion, and he is entitled to that opinion. Just because one person thinks that: doesn't mean that its a common opinion. And just for the record, I dont think that Button is a "prick". I think he is one of the best drivers on that grid, and has the ability to both drive quick and use his head. Most drivers only have the first ability.




Well, if that is the case, then he won't be winning any more world championships will he? I think that Lewis is finding it hard without his Dad as his manager, remember his dad has been there all the way for him, before every race, giving him encouragement. Even got him into the sport right at the start. Its hard when thats gone, and I don't think he is coping without a manager.

and I think Button has more of the later than the former through... but at least he still have both~

I wonder what's the real reason behind why his dad just all of a sudden disappeared this year...

Quote from 5haz :

Its common sense that if you back off in a race the competitors behind you will become a threat, although saying that quite a few seemed to have forgotten the concept of how a race works. :doh:

To me it seemed like Hamilton wanted the team to promise him an easy ride, surely Hamilton is not that stupid that he thinks that backing off wont allow rivals to close in on him?

they are teammates after all, and it isn't uncommon for the teams to tell their drivers to "hold position". But obviously Button didn't understand (or pretend to didn't understand, in which case good on him for giving us brilliant television~!) the coded message to "save fuel"...

Quote from JazzOn :

That Hamilton goes to the big boys and whines how mean the seb is, just shows what kind of wanker he is, btw.

by saying that, it shows what kind of ..... you are, I'll stop short of using the word you used.

it was the stewards that decided to take a look at the situation, not Hamilton the one that whine about it to the big boys.

And mind you, Vettel did get a warning for that incident.

Having said that, yes Webber shouldn't have been that defensive, but whichever way one cut it, Vettel was the one that CAUSED the accident.

Quote from JazzOn :

Indeed, and i never said Vettel did no wrong or anything like that. I merely stating, because it seemed to be ignored often, that there was no need for Webber to push the luck that hard. He made a weak block and as a result he finds the car next to him with 'overlapa'. If he wouldn't be that short sighted (a reason he'll never be F1 Champion), he could have prepared for counter attack, that is if he'd want to have chance for the Victory.
What Vettel did was rather normal racing procedere, considering he passes a team mate, who would have the same interests in letting the main rival behind.

I wouldn't say Webber "pushed the luck", because it was still Vettel who turned on him.

What Webber did was normal racing procedure. Turning into someone and then blaming the other for being there? Now that's Vettel's normal racing procedure. (That's what also happened in the pits in China)

Quote from tinvek :

at the moment they're looking like a bunch of individuals that all just happen to work for the same team

and that's exactly what Horner said in that interview on autosport~

Vettel and Webber are just individuals that just happened to work for red bull...

have they changed the minimum number of laps (the % of total race laps) for each driver too~?

If I'm the normal driver and I'm fighting for the Championship, I wouldn't want to give the international driver more laps in the race than the required minimum.

Quote from bunder9999 :

they have all these weird rules about what lines you can take on their servers... i'm surprised they didn't ban you.

banned by admin or the random noobs that are around~?

I often do exactly the same thing (if a car could get to the inside of me in the first place, normally I kept that option closed), and I never ran into any problems.

and a few current IRL drivers too...
why are they all heading down under all of a sudden? (just because the merged IRL won't go to Surfers anymore...)

Quote from JazzOn :

I don't generalise. I look at this particular case, that could have had another outcome.

BTW not everyone would have done what Webber did. Please look at the same section Hamilton vs Button.

I'm saying that Webber did not act like a sportsman, of what i'm dissapointed of.

And Intrepid, I'm rather interessted in the Sport, than Politics and Speculations. And FTR, i often disagree with Brundle!

Edit QFT:

PS Edit:

Exactly. The block by Webber was weak, if you wanna say so. A proper block and Vettel had no other choice then to let off the throttle.

Often disagreeing someone who have been a driver for a few years, and a commentator for many years after~?

wow you must have known so much more than he does, that must have been why you thought it was Webber's fault that Vettel drove into him~?

Next time when you are driving, stopped at a set of lights, and got rear ended. Make sure to say that it was your fault for "not moving out of the way" when you see the car behind was going to slam into you.

Quote from Mp3 Astra :

I love the slightly subtle joke in this Autosport article's image

didn't pick it up the first time I saw it when I read the article...

but yeah they should stick it up RB's pitwalls, motor homes, and garages~

and also on Vettel:
this is the second time this year Vettel moved across on someone, and on both occasion he's blaming the other guy for being there~? that's something seriously wrong with his mentality...

and for him on the championship, he's currently on 78pts, which should've been 103 or at least 96pts. Or more worryingly, he should have and could have got 75pts from the first 3 races of the season.
But being a Champion is anything but what should have and could have been, it's the points that mattered...

Last edited by JCTK, Mon 31 May 2010, 03:02.

Quote from The Moose :

Lets be honest...Red Bull don't do pit stop mistakes very often

But worse still, one is NEVER going to be able to pass another car by staying out for one or a few more laps longer neither, since they ain't gonna get the benefits of low fuel anyway. While the guy pitted early have the fresh tyres...

Quote from The Moose :

..which was a shitty bit of strategy on Mclarens part imo. Lewis was clearly quicker than Webber at that point... If they had kept him out for one more lap I have the feeling he'd have grabbed the lead. He was never going to beat Webber in the pits, even if he hadn't had the small problem with the rear wheel.

staying out for one extra lap most probably wouldn't work neither...

their best chance would be to pit together to pressure RBR into making a mistake, but it backfired~

Quote from Intrepid :

Lewis was stuck behind the RBRs quite clearly and had the best pace.

If Button had the 'pace' he would have overtaken them all in the pit stops... he didn't! Button certainly wasn't pressing Vettel to any significant degree.

but as we have seen throughout the season so far, the guys that pitted early for fresh tyres would gain grounds/position on cars that decided to stay out on older tyres...

And I believes Button was trying to drive "smart" again by keeping a safe distance behind Vettel, wasn't sure if that was exactly a great idea through...

both McLaren couldn't show their true pace for the first 40 laps that's for sure. And after that they've been told to back off.

Quote from Intrepid :

Not sure about that Hamilton was pretty happy to lift of the brakes into turn 1 to get past Jenson. Very close and coulda ended in a similar way.

It would always be a very bad idea for anyone to hang around the outside down there at T1 through. And Jensen obviously thought the better of it and backed off slightly to let Lewis take his line.

at least they didn't completely screw each other up going into/during the final complex of corners...