Theft of intellectual property on the internet? My god, whatever next? Cats and dogs living together?
Come on CSU, he was trying in good faith to help you. Being snarky to people who are assisting you is not cool.
And in answer to your question, I've heard of short-shifting to save the engine but I've never heard of anyone using 90% throttle to save the engine.
Probably should clarify that you need to have the latest test patch downloaded for this to work. If you're just using standard patch U, this feature doesn't happen (no white stripe).
Thanks, Vain, much appreciated.
Yes, great thread.
A quick question about power lock: if one driver has 20% power locking and the other has 80% power locking, does this mean that if the 80% guy can keep it together and apply throttle smoothly to avoid oversteer, he can expect to out-accelerate the 20% guy on corner exit?
Or is this only theoretically true, and might the opposite be true in practice, that the 20% guy can mash the throttle so early and so confidently that he can be faster out of the corner than the 80% guy who will be worried about oversteer?
A quick question about power lock: if one driver has 20% power locking and the other has 80% power locking, does this mean that if the 80% guy can keep it together and apply throttle smoothly to avoid oversteer, he can expect to out-accelerate the 20% guy on corner exit?
Or is this only theoretically true, and might the opposite be true in practice, that the 20% guy can mash the throttle so early and so confidently that he can be faster out of the corner than the 80% guy who will be worried about oversteer?
Ant, it's really not a war. Or if it is a war, the trick is to find a fellow pacifist.
Yes, and maybe Yoda is Batman, but I wouldn't bet on it.
I think this is exactly what Ferrari were accused of doing with their "tyre ovens".
Fair point; I can see that what I wrote was ambiguous. I was actually meaning that Jackie had messed up on that one occasion, and that based on the fact that Jackie would think about making that move, there was a good chance that you and he shared the same view on who has rights to the line in a corner.
I did not intend to accuse you, however indirectly, of lunging for the inside and making dirty moves.
From the tone of your post it sounds like you're offended, so let me apologize before this gets out of hand. It's become clear to me over the course of the discussion that you have a sincerely held, consistent view, and that you race fairly within the framework of that view. I have a slightly different view, but let me emphasize that I would far rather be next to you on the track than someone who pays no attention to the location of cars around them.
The reason I called you out on your initial post was simply because when you're playing by my rules it's a little frustrating to come up against a driver who's playing by your rules. You can see what would happen, I'm sure. I read the situation as being shared rights to the corner, he reads the situation as being his line, and we both look pissed off with each other as I get pushed into the grass on the exit. And in fact, that's not really what happens: in the real situation I back off at some point because I can see that the other guy is not giving any space. But still, it's annoying.
So I've been pursuing the discussion in this thread in an attempt to get a consensus on what the standards are. If the consensus turns out to favour your version of racing etiquette, then fine, I'll race that way too. It's a bit like deciding whether to drive on the left or the right on public roads: it doesn't really matter which, it just matters that everyone knows what the standard is.
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Are you sure Duke? The only data I could find on the net was from an F1 glossary, and it said:
It's an interesting coincidence. Do you know or are you guessing?
Yeah, but if you play it backwards under a UV light you can see South City, honest.
Not taking the piss, I meant it sincerely -- it seems that you and Jackie Stewart have in common a feeling that you would have a right to the racing line under those circumstances. As I've made clear above, I don't agree that this is the best way to handle things, but then again maybe I don't have enough "killer instinct" to be a champion driver.
I can argue with you about the ethics of all this but I'd feel on shakier ground arguing with Jackie.
Hey, George.
This is the internet. Worse, it's a discussion forum. I don't know about you, but I mentally add on the words "It's my subjective, probably wrong, heavily biased opinion that..." in front of just about everything I read here.
Cheers,
--Jason.
Good to see that even the best mess these things up from time to time! You are in good company, it seems, Sinbad.
I wonder if the world of ice-skating is split by a similar division between figure skaters and speed skaters?
Congrats. Did you tell them all your secret (i.e., LFS)?
Perhaps this is the source of our disagreement. In my view, if driver B gets alongside driver A, on the inside, as they approach a corner, then driver A has not yet lost the position. What if it's a right-hander followed immediately by a left, for example?
Hey Sinbad, thanks for replying so quickly.
I don't know, it sounds like possibly you made it all too well.
This is the crux of it: no, I don't know that rule. And I think I'm not alone.
As far as I'm aware, accepted racing etiquette is that the only way you get granted exclusive ownership of the racing line is to be well in front at the turn-in point. When there's overlap, there's a mutual responsibility to leave room (so I would call the Schumy move in the video as dodgy, really, but that's for another day).
Cheers.
I don't know, it sounds like possibly you made it all too well.
This is the crux of it: no, I don't know that rule. And I think I'm not alone.
As far as I'm aware, accepted racing etiquette is that the only way you get granted exclusive ownership of the racing line is to be well in front at the turn-in point. When there's overlap, there's a mutual responsibility to leave room (so I would call the Schumy move in the video as dodgy, really, but that's for another day).
Cheers.
Don't know if it changes your feelings about it, but Nascar does exactly this: there are people at the top of the stands with binoculars and a radio link to the car, constantly telling the driver about where the other cars are relative to his own position. "Stay high... stay high... clear!", etc. And Sato's team were doing the same for him in several F1 races last season, although only for the race start -- don't know if they still do it.
I should be clear, I'm not accusing Sinbad of being a dirty racer. I'm just trying to be clear about what convention we're going to agree to follow here, because having multiple conflicting conventions leads to chaos and bad feelings.
And maybe Sinbad's way is better, I'm prepared to admit it.
Certainly if I was actually in exactly the position I've talked about, where I'm directly alongside someone else, on the outside, at the turn-in point, 9 times out of 10 I'm going to lift a little and let him have the line, but that's mostly because I don't trust strangers enough to believe that they will give me room, and I'd rather lose one position than get punted into the sand (and then abused by a guy who thinks he was doing the right thing!
).Thanks, Kev, much appreciated. It is very generous that you tell this story in a way that suggests I was possibly a little bit fast, rather than just wide and slow as was in fact the case.
Sorry for the misunderstanding. You make an excellent point about Legge's crash -- it would surely have got a lot more coverage if she had been badly injured or killed.
I need to be very clear here also, so I don't get flamed to death by legions of Top Gear fans. I have every sympathy for Mr Hammond, I wish him all the best, etc. I am just puzzled about the way so many people seem to feel the kind of really direct emotional connection to the guy that (it seems to me) would be more appropriate for someone they actually knew.
Many more awful things have happened in the world over the last week than one man's jet-car crash, but they don't get the same exposure. And of course, if you personally got upset about every human tragedy that happens in such a big world, you'd never get out of bed in the morning. But I don't think we solve that moral conundrum by reserving our sympathy and emotional response for only those people we "know" from the media.
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Sigh.
So, can I just clarify, Sinbad? You're saying that if you and I are exactly in line with each other at the beginning of the braking zone, we brake together, we're still exactly in line with each other at the turn-in point, but you have the inside, it's my fault if there's any contact as we proceed around the corner together? Is that right?
You seem to be suggesting that in this situation I am supposed to lift and let you have the position. Correct?
If I end up getting pushed into the grass on exit, it's my fault for driving next to you? Am I getting it yet?
Please note, I'm very happy with the idea that one or the other of us deserves to have the racing line uncontested if there's no significant overlap between our cars at the turn-in point, but I think you will find that if two cars are absolutely alongside each other, neither has exclusive rights to the racing line as they go through the corner, and each is expected to leave some room for the other. I'm pretty sure this is exactly what OP was talking about.
I'm not just trying to pick a fight here for the sake of it, and if you think I've misrepresented you, please let me know. It's just a little disturbing if serious LFSers are disagreeing on such a basic convention. I think you can well imagine the fun and games when two people are alongside each other, and one of them holds your view while the other one holds mine.
A very good point, Frokki. I didn't want to say anything about this as I didn't want to seem like a jerk towards an injured man and his family. But what is with the Hammond love-fest?
And don't even get me started on Steve Irwin.
Clearly, these people and their families deserve our sympathy, sure. But so do millions of others who don't get it. I find it all a bit Princess-Diana-ish, actually.
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG