Think about it a bit. Fz5 is a RR car(Engine is on the rear), it's weight balance isn't good.
I prefer fz5 simply, because it has more power and is still very driveable. If XRT wasn't so low powered I would be driving it. Or If it at least had some things taken out from inside - so it would be lighter.
edit:
The point is - It's not the power of FZ5 that is a problem, it is its layout. Moreover, I actually wish FZ5 had more power.
I prefer fz5 simply, because it has more power and is still very driveable. If XRT wasn't so low powered I would be driving it. Or If it at least had some things taken out from inside - so it would be lighter.
edit:
The point is - It's not the power of FZ5 that is a problem, it is its layout. Moreover, I actually wish FZ5 had more power.
I forget to add one more thing before, which is a very important. The car should have good weight balance as well.
I love for happy christmass feel of first page in this thread.. Just some best quotes:
CUT THE END
Back on topic:
No need for special clutch pack. I'm using supers front, supers rear in Fz5 atm. I clutch kick a lot right now, and the clutch absolutely doesn't burn. It burned too fast in first test patches.
In real life it also isn't hard for clutch to get smelly during drifting(clutch kicking etc.).
I think clutch(Edit: I mean Tires heat, sorry) is great now. Before it took way too long for tires too burn and blow, I think it's much more correct now. How long tires burn also depends on driving style and tires itself(And car setup as well). Drifts we do in lfs are 130-150 km/h average on some tracks with full throttle. Such driving would waste tires in real life pretty quickly.
The drifting also feels definitelly more realistic. During phase of drift transition it feels much more real too.
CUT THE END
Back on topic:
No need for special clutch pack. I'm using supers front, supers rear in Fz5 atm. I clutch kick a lot right now, and the clutch absolutely doesn't burn. It burned too fast in first test patches.
In real life it also isn't hard for clutch to get smelly during drifting(clutch kicking etc.).
I think clutch(Edit: I mean Tires heat, sorry) is great now. Before it took way too long for tires too burn and blow, I think it's much more correct now. How long tires burn also depends on driving style and tires itself(And car setup as well). Drifts we do in lfs are 130-150 km/h average on some tracks with full throttle. Such driving would waste tires in real life pretty quickly.
The drifting also feels definitelly more realistic. During phase of drift transition it feels much more real too.
Last edited by kamkorPL, .
People talking about drift car just being a car with stupid bodykit simply show they know absolutelly NOTHING about drifting. Nothing about building a driftcar, nothing about what makes a good drift car. Pure "Get your shit into the thread, based on what your imagination tells you". It's as If I was giving my opinion about lfs being unrealistic without even driving a real car!
For most drifters the only reason to get a bodykit, or some decals or just enhance visuals of the car is to get attention! And the reason is very simple - to get attention - to be more often in media - therefore most importantly to get sponsors. Getting sponsors in motorsports is common for all types of them - racing, drifting. We don't need to get sponsors in lfs, we don't need bodykit. Current top drift skins are also more than enough "eye-cathers".
So if to make a drift car in lfs.. What should it be ? Just a quick thought:
Modify engine in XRT to top spec, make it 400-600hp(With enough Nm and ability maybe to get less power. Would be cool if there was also AEM to modify the maps), give it bigger steering lock, give it semi slicks as well, get the shit out of the car - all the useless things so it weights less. Give it "plastic" windows so it's light, give it roll cage, give it carbon hood again for less weight. Allow some choice for tyre profiles etc.
For most drifters the only reason to get a bodykit, or some decals or just enhance visuals of the car is to get attention! And the reason is very simple - to get attention - to be more often in media - therefore most importantly to get sponsors. Getting sponsors in motorsports is common for all types of them - racing, drifting. We don't need to get sponsors in lfs, we don't need bodykit. Current top drift skins are also more than enough "eye-cathers".
So if to make a drift car in lfs.. What should it be ? Just a quick thought:
Modify engine in XRT to top spec, make it 400-600hp(With enough Nm and ability maybe to get less power. Would be cool if there was also AEM to modify the maps), give it bigger steering lock, give it semi slicks as well, get the shit out of the car - all the useless things so it weights less. Give it "plastic" windows so it's light, give it roll cage, give it carbon hood again for less weight. Allow some choice for tyre profiles etc.
Reading some of the posts in this thread just makes me realise to get out of LFS and build my own car for drift as fast as possible in real life.
Thank god some race drivers I met in real life aren't close-minded people like some on LFSForum. People that I know in real life that are in motorsports love everything about the cars, and pretending drifting sucks and isn't something fun is something as ignorant as it can get. I have never met a person that drifted himself say that drifting is no fun, stupid or that it sucks. Why would people racing sucessfully(as winning) retire and start drifting proffesionally? Because It's fun. Let me quote Remmo Niezen from last International Drift Challenge. "Drift Addict".
And many top drifters in Netherland that dominate international drift challenge in germany(Held on F1 circuits) are retired proffesional race car drivers. It's ok to be a drifter in real life, but in LFS being a drifter sucks - props to selfish and ignorant community.
Oh and shall I start a discussion about some new drift server that appeared on lfs lately? What did lfs racers try to drift? Formula BMW and FWD Gtr cars, just brillant. But wait oooops!! Those were just few, ofcourse this doesn't mean that all racers understand drifting by dragging GTi GTR ass around the corners and spinning into grass. But you have to be open minded to see that. You have to experience both racing and drifting deeply to understand both. I wasn't always drifting in lfs.
Anyway, I really was motivated to do a very good article about 45 max lock for Scawen with several people, but I just lost it all. It's pointless losing energy to fight for something in a video game.
On the other side.. I can see it's actually not that much people against drifting. Most of the people who are against are the same people all over, all over all over all over all over..
If anyone wants to call me ignorant then well.. Yeah call me ignorant for not understanding haters. I guess I would have to be a hater myself to understand it.
And lastly, sorry for going quite much offtopic here, but reading this just really gives me a shock.
Thank god some race drivers I met in real life aren't close-minded people like some on LFSForum. People that I know in real life that are in motorsports love everything about the cars, and pretending drifting sucks and isn't something fun is something as ignorant as it can get. I have never met a person that drifted himself say that drifting is no fun, stupid or that it sucks. Why would people racing sucessfully(as winning) retire and start drifting proffesionally? Because It's fun. Let me quote Remmo Niezen from last International Drift Challenge. "Drift Addict".
And many top drifters in Netherland that dominate international drift challenge in germany(Held on F1 circuits) are retired proffesional race car drivers. It's ok to be a drifter in real life, but in LFS being a drifter sucks - props to selfish and ignorant community.
Oh and shall I start a discussion about some new drift server that appeared on lfs lately? What did lfs racers try to drift? Formula BMW and FWD Gtr cars, just brillant. But wait oooops!! Those were just few, ofcourse this doesn't mean that all racers understand drifting by dragging GTi GTR ass around the corners and spinning into grass. But you have to be open minded to see that. You have to experience both racing and drifting deeply to understand both. I wasn't always drifting in lfs.
Anyway, I really was motivated to do a very good article about 45 max lock for Scawen with several people, but I just lost it all. It's pointless losing energy to fight for something in a video game.
On the other side.. I can see it's actually not that much people against drifting. Most of the people who are against are the same people all over, all over all over all over all over..
If anyone wants to call me ignorant then well.. Yeah call me ignorant for not understanding haters. I guess I would have to be a hater myself to understand it.
And lastly, sorry for going quite much offtopic here, but reading this just really gives me a shock.
Opel Omega is an rwd car 
No converstions needed.
No converstions needed.Thanks guys for support. And thanks Sam for help as well. Your sounds are already in Poznan video, looks better with them. Gives some option vol feel to it. 
Sam, I hope next year I will go to one of Xtreme Drift rounds in NL so we can meet, and you could bring some NL speciality for me to taste.
Sam, I hope next year I will go to one of Xtreme Drift rounds in NL so we can meet, and you could bring some NL speciality for me to taste.
From Live For Speed to real life
Hi,
At first I just wanted to make a post in "Racing videos" thread in racing section, but.. This post is very drifting related so..
Anyway I have started playing LFS online in may 2004. Got very into dirfting in it in summer 2003. Since then I've been also making videos about LFS drifting(few non-drifting exceptions).
At the beginning of this summer in june I have approached one of the most active polish drifters(bartdrift, check www.bartdrift.pl) that catched my attention with his passion and will to help new drifters in my local area have proper-legal-well organised trainings. It was when he made a thread about organising first of those trainings in my area. I offered him making a video about this event. I didn't have any cameras, any real life experience, but I felt I can make it with the skills I've learned from making LFS videos.
Furtonatelly, it turned out that he has a camera. Moreover, he even bought 1 more and equipment so we could mount cameras on cars. At this time I also learned a lot from one of the polish rally vid makers - piter, who taught me basics of filming with real camera. So props go to him as well.
But this vid isn't the end. From that time - I've been going with Bartdrift to many drift competitions to make videos(Taking place in Hungary(Tokol near Budapest, Mariapocs, KakucsRing), Germany(Nuerburgring, Hockenheim), Poland(Race track in Poznan). It wasn't long till we realised that short music clips are not enough. Therfor we have started making full video reports(Inspired by Japanese Option Vols). Our first one and the only one finished so far is from International Drift Challenge that took place in Nuerburgring.
Making videos was one thing, but I also loved being on real life F1 circuits like Hockenheim and Nuerburgring. And there is a story about Nuerburgring. When I was close to it, in mountains etc. I felt a very exciting feeling. I think I've felt a spirit of Nuerburgring Nordshleife. It really is something I can't explain(Even though we were going to F1 circuit). It was also amazing when we were close to it. We've stopped at the gas station and the cars there were amazing. The shop in there was cool too, lots of Nuerburgring gadgets, clothes etc.
Something impressive was also a view from top of Mercedes Arena in hockenheim. It must be super fun to watch races from there. You really can see a lot! And damm Hockenheim is HUGE. Going trough track from Hotel to Mercedes Arena part was sure "a long" walk. Going trough tunnels etc.
I also loved the atmosphere in Hungarian events. The people there are very fun, they really enjoy drifting to the max.
Very enjoyable thing was also co-drives(Right seat rides in drift cars).. Even though my thing is more "left seat"
And ofcourse it was awesome just being there with all the people, parties over night etc. I truly had a very good time - always(Except super rainy sunday on Nuerburgring..
)
Huh.. That's a long write up.. But going back ontopic. We didn't stop on making videos, we've decided to create a new european proffesional website that would provide people with european drifter profiles, interesting interviews, event reports, galleries, news, videos, drift shop and more. Ofcourse it is still evolving, but even now there is a lot of interesting stuff you could enjoy. It's adress is www.driftingo.eu (there is also polish and german version - www.driftingo.pl and www.driftingo.de )
Moreover, this winter we plan to release 3 DVD Reports from drifting events. First one will be released next month - in January 2007 I really can't wait! I hope people will enjoy it. It will be about Toyo Drifting Cup 2007 Final in Poland, Poznan
Something that I would like to mention now is that it's not just me making videos. From IDC in Nuerburgring we've been driving to drift events with 8-10 people team so we could cover up the whole track with cameras, make onboards, make interviews etc. It's thanks to many people with passion that driftingo is possible. It also wouldn't be possible without Bartdrift that has put so much effort into it, that it's just unbeleviable. Crazy man.
You might ask, going from live for speed to real life hmm.. Did I actually start drifting myself as well? Well, I actually kinda did. Bartdrift provided me with a practice car - Bmw e34 535 prepared for drifting. I've been participating in trainings of www.szkoladriftu.pl (by bartdrift) with this car. Once i've even had a chance to do 2 laps in his proffesional s14a 200sx drift car. That really felt great, being able to drive a car like that. One of my greatest memories so far.
I hope that in the next year year(2008) I will be able to build my own car to drift. Since the first time I took car sideways I got addicted. I will just quote Remmo Niezen from IDC in Hockenheim. "Drift addict".
Here I would also like to mention one more thing - when drifting in real life I was AMAZED at how close to real drifting LFS is. And now with patch Y it has gotten even closer to it.. BAH! I've even convinced bartdrift to buy G25 and play LFS himself. We have also organised Driftingo.pl LFS drift challenge 2007 for polish drifters(First lfs drifting event with real prizes). We hope to organise a full season in lfs next year.
And a link to videos I was talking about - here
So this was all I've wanted to say. Now my question is, what is your story? Did LFS help you to get more or less into motorsports in real life?
At first I just wanted to make a post in "Racing videos" thread in racing section, but.. This post is very drifting related so..
Anyway I have started playing LFS online in may 2004. Got very into dirfting in it in summer 2003. Since then I've been also making videos about LFS drifting(few non-drifting exceptions).
At the beginning of this summer in june I have approached one of the most active polish drifters(bartdrift, check www.bartdrift.pl) that catched my attention with his passion and will to help new drifters in my local area have proper-legal-well organised trainings. It was when he made a thread about organising first of those trainings in my area. I offered him making a video about this event. I didn't have any cameras, any real life experience, but I felt I can make it with the skills I've learned from making LFS videos.
Furtonatelly, it turned out that he has a camera. Moreover, he even bought 1 more and equipment so we could mount cameras on cars. At this time I also learned a lot from one of the polish rally vid makers - piter, who taught me basics of filming with real camera. So props go to him as well.
But this vid isn't the end. From that time - I've been going with Bartdrift to many drift competitions to make videos(Taking place in Hungary(Tokol near Budapest, Mariapocs, KakucsRing), Germany(Nuerburgring, Hockenheim), Poland(Race track in Poznan). It wasn't long till we realised that short music clips are not enough. Therfor we have started making full video reports(Inspired by Japanese Option Vols). Our first one and the only one finished so far is from International Drift Challenge that took place in Nuerburgring.
Making videos was one thing, but I also loved being on real life F1 circuits like Hockenheim and Nuerburgring. And there is a story about Nuerburgring. When I was close to it, in mountains etc. I felt a very exciting feeling. I think I've felt a spirit of Nuerburgring Nordshleife. It really is something I can't explain(Even though we were going to F1 circuit). It was also amazing when we were close to it. We've stopped at the gas station and the cars there were amazing. The shop in there was cool too, lots of Nuerburgring gadgets, clothes etc.
Something impressive was also a view from top of Mercedes Arena in hockenheim. It must be super fun to watch races from there. You really can see a lot! And damm Hockenheim is HUGE. Going trough track from Hotel to Mercedes Arena part was sure "a long" walk. Going trough tunnels etc.
I also loved the atmosphere in Hungarian events. The people there are very fun, they really enjoy drifting to the max.
Very enjoyable thing was also co-drives(Right seat rides in drift cars).. Even though my thing is more "left seat"
And ofcourse it was awesome just being there with all the people, parties over night etc. I truly had a very good time - always(Except super rainy sunday on Nuerburgring..
)Huh.. That's a long write up.. But going back ontopic. We didn't stop on making videos, we've decided to create a new european proffesional website that would provide people with european drifter profiles, interesting interviews, event reports, galleries, news, videos, drift shop and more. Ofcourse it is still evolving, but even now there is a lot of interesting stuff you could enjoy. It's adress is www.driftingo.eu (there is also polish and german version - www.driftingo.pl and www.driftingo.de )
Moreover, this winter we plan to release 3 DVD Reports from drifting events. First one will be released next month - in January 2007
I really can't wait! I hope people will enjoy it. It will be about Toyo Drifting Cup 2007 Final in Poland, PoznanSomething that I would like to mention now is that it's not just me making videos. From IDC in Nuerburgring we've been driving to drift events with 8-10 people team so we could cover up the whole track with cameras, make onboards, make interviews etc. It's thanks to many people with passion that driftingo is possible. It also wouldn't be possible without Bartdrift that has put so much effort into it, that it's just unbeleviable. Crazy man.
You might ask, going from live for speed to real life hmm.. Did I actually start drifting myself as well? Well, I actually kinda did. Bartdrift provided me with a practice car - Bmw e34 535 prepared for drifting. I've been participating in trainings of www.szkoladriftu.pl (by bartdrift) with this car. Once i've even had a chance to do 2 laps in his proffesional s14a 200sx drift car. That really felt great, being able to drive a car like that. One of my greatest memories so far.
I hope that in the next year year(2008) I will be able to build my own car to drift. Since the first time I took car sideways I got addicted. I will just quote Remmo Niezen from IDC in Hockenheim. "Drift addict".
Here I would also like to mention one more thing - when drifting in real life I was AMAZED at how close to real drifting LFS is. And now with patch Y it has gotten even closer to it.. BAH! I've even convinced bartdrift to buy G25 and play LFS himself.
We have also organised Driftingo.pl LFS drift challenge 2007 for polish drifters(First lfs drifting event with real prizes). We hope to organise a full season in lfs next year.And a link to videos I was talking about - here
So this was all I've wanted to say. Now my question is, what is your story? Did LFS help you to get more or less into motorsports in real life?
Last edited by kamkorPL, .
Jakg: Not sure what you mean by normal high-perfomance tires, but if semi-slicks like Toyo R888 then yeah
But which those are the ones in lfs - normals, supers, or neither?
About tires blowing out - in real life usually drift runs aren't as long as they are in lfs. Often drifter does few laps around short section then goes back to "line/queue". In the meantime while waiting the temperature goes down, therfore so does the pressure in tires and the tires can last another few runs - and so on. Until they're dead. Ofcourse in tsuiso battles with many reruns things happen earlier. Even during practice some tires last weirdly short, and some are like lasting "forever"(but not as long as lfs x10 normals).
Hovewer this is how it is in european events like in IDC, KOE etc, I've never saw D1 live.
Suming this up, I think normal tires actually blow out after a real amount of time. They probably could last longer, or not, but it's real right now. Hovewer, the tires we had before - lasted way too long.
I also agree with some opinions about rev limiter. It indeed seems to be working wrong. Maybe it's easy to do such rev limiter in real life? I don't know. Anyone with mechanical knowledge? Tristan help out here maybe please.
But which those are the ones in lfs - normals, supers, or neither?
About tires blowing out - in real life usually drift runs aren't as long as they are in lfs. Often drifter does few laps around short section then goes back to "line/queue". In the meantime while waiting the temperature goes down, therfore so does the pressure in tires and the tires can last another few runs - and so on. Until they're dead. Ofcourse in tsuiso battles with many reruns things happen earlier. Even during practice some tires last weirdly short, and some are like lasting "forever"(but not as long as lfs x10 normals).
Hovewer this is how it is in european events like in IDC, KOE etc, I've never saw D1 live.
Suming this up, I think normal tires actually blow out after a real amount of time. They probably could last longer, or not, but it's real right now. Hovewer, the tires we had before - lasted way too long.
I also agree with some opinions about rev limiter. It indeed seems to be working wrong. Maybe it's easy to do such rev limiter in real life? I don't know. Anyone with mechanical knowledge? Tristan help out here maybe please.
Actually you are very right. Thanks for correcting me. And actually your line sums it all.
No other sim can simulate driving in as many aspects as LFS.
No other sim can simulate driving in as many aspects as LFS.
Very good post up there.
I think drifting in LFS is very realistic as well. Nothing else comes close.
There is definitelly improvement to be made like you said in apsect of "losing grip, starting drift". But I also think that some things during the spin of the tires have to be adjusted as well. Tires might not be spinning fast enough maybe like someone mentioned, but also there's more to it. How it feels when tires spinning slow downs, how it feels when it spins a lot etc. It just needs adjustements.
Other than that, like "overally". Drifting in lfs is pretty much like in real life, at least in situations that I could compare with.
www.bartdrift.pl also has G25 and started drifting in lfs recently. He actually thinks it is harder than real life and that experienced lfs drifters could easily adjust after some practice, to drifting in real life.
And this is what I love about LFS. It is so "open-minded". You can drive on 2 wheels, you can drift etc. If something can be done in real life, it can be done in LFS too. That's what a proper sim should be. The fact that the physics in sims are mostly used in racing situations is a different thing and not what I'm talking about.
I think drifting in LFS is very realistic as well. Nothing else comes close.
There is definitelly improvement to be made like you said in apsect of "losing grip, starting drift". But I also think that some things during the spin of the tires have to be adjusted as well. Tires might not be spinning fast enough maybe like someone mentioned, but also there's more to it. How it feels when tires spinning slow downs, how it feels when it spins a lot etc. It just needs adjustements.
Other than that, like "overally". Drifting in lfs is pretty much like in real life, at least in situations that I could compare with.
www.bartdrift.pl also has G25 and started drifting in lfs recently. He actually thinks it is harder than real life and that experienced lfs drifters could easily adjust after some practice, to drifting in real life.
And this is what I love about LFS. It is so "open-minded". You can drive on 2 wheels, you can drift etc. If something can be done in real life, it can be done in LFS too. That's what a proper sim should be. The fact that the physics in sims are mostly used in racing situations is a different thing and not what I'm talking about.
Busy with doing well-written material for Scawen with all the arguements for more lock, as well with examples and mechanical explanation.
Mako, don't start this discussion over again please(45 lock in race situation). It's been already explained why it wouldn't be an advantage.
www.driftingo.pl - On the front page of european's biggest drift vortal you can see news about polish lfs event sponsored by driftingo.
Direct link to the news: http://driftingo.pl/News/exeCo ... trening-przed-zawodami,26
Hopefully next year I will be organising a full drifting season in Poland, also supported by driftingo.
The news is only on polish version of site, because the event is local. But I still think this is a nice advertisement.
There will be also a report of full event(The news up there is just a report from official practice). Maybe we will make reports from international lfs drifting events too.
Direct link to the news: http://driftingo.pl/News/exeCo ... trening-przed-zawodami,26
Hopefully next year I will be organising a full drifting season in Poland, also supported by driftingo.
The news is only on polish version of site, because the event is local. But I still think this is a nice advertisement.
There will be also a report of full event(The news up there is just a report from official practice). Maybe we will make reports from international lfs drifting events too.
36 as default value for GTT with possibility of 45 max? Just like any other option that is adjustable in lfs? Why is adjusting steering lock unrealistic, but other values not?
Example to show what I mean:
Example to show what I mean:
mcintyrej: Will take some time to write it properly etc. But when I have some news about this case, I will be sure to post them here. Thank you for your support.
BlakjeKaas: Do you realise that all LFS settings in default aren't set to max? rear susp stiffness is 45 kN/m and not 170 etc. You hate a thing you don't even know(as you said in previous post). Maybe it has something to do with your age? Rebelious just to be rebelious?
BlakjeKaas: Do you realise that all LFS settings in default aren't set to max? rear susp stiffness is 45 kN/m and not 170 etc. You hate a thing you don't even know(as you said in previous post). Maybe it has something to do with your age? Rebelious just to be rebelious?
Please don't wait for my reply. The person who will get those examples will be Scawen himself. The reason is in my previous post.
March Hare : About drift racing you mentioned and minimising laptimes: Tristan said:
And ofcourse this is what I've meant. If someone wants to minimise drift to get a better laptime it means it's time to stop drifting and "grip" to go the fastest way. But if someone wants to do it that way - I don't mind. I just don't like the fact that someone uses it as an arguement against 45 degrees. As - "race drifters" use little lock(because of little angles), so "show drifters"(as normal drifters) don't need 45.
Thanks for your support tristancliffe.
BlakjeKaas: 45 degrees is not unrealistic. There are many examples in this thread. If you were at least a bit into real life drifting you would understand this. If you want to believe false facts, I will not stop you.
Moreover,
No. Because those who would know how use it properly would be doing more fun and exciting drifting, by maximizing angles and doing very agressive transitions from drift to drift more freely.
Eh.. I won't even comment this.
Woz: Drift car would be nice, but to be honest there is no need. At the moment camber settings can be changed, toe in/toe out can be changed, diffs can be adjusted, suspension can be adjusted, gears can be adjusted, tire pressure can be adjusted. That's all a drift car needs(except for more power and with that some semi-slicks like Toyo R888). So in short, anything that is RWD and is driftable is a drift car. Setup options(like more steering lock) can just make it a better drift car.
I would hovewer love some new RWD car that has more power and a good weight balance at the same time. And I think racers wouldn't mind such rwd car to race with as well, would they? A rotary engine rwd car would be sweet too(something like rx-7).
To all about 45 degrees as a server option. Well I think it's not necessary after all. As I said earlier, someone needing 45 degrees to save spins etc. in a race, isn't a person that is a fast racer. To be the fastest you have to correct as little as possible. Be smooth. But you guys know that.
Good point.
Anyway, I think I've came to a conclusion that I'm persuading wrong person/wrong group of people. I should be persuading Scawen about it, not the lfsforum community.
Will do what Tristan said earlier with a group of mature drifters - gather information, examples etc. and will contact Scawen about this.
And ofcourse this is what I've meant. If someone wants to minimise drift to get a better laptime it means it's time to stop drifting and "grip" to go the fastest way. But if someone wants to do it that way - I don't mind. I just don't like the fact that someone uses it as an arguement against 45 degrees. As - "race drifters" use little lock(because of little angles), so "show drifters"(as normal drifters) don't need 45.
Thanks for your support tristancliffe.
BlakjeKaas: 45 degrees is not unrealistic. There are many examples in this thread. If you were at least a bit into real life drifting you would understand this. If you want to believe false facts, I will not stop you.
Moreover,
No. Because those who would know how use it properly would be doing more fun and exciting drifting, by maximizing angles and doing very agressive transitions from drift to drift more freely.
Eh.. I won't even comment this.
Woz: Drift car would be nice, but to be honest there is no need. At the moment camber settings can be changed, toe in/toe out can be changed, diffs can be adjusted, suspension can be adjusted, gears can be adjusted, tire pressure can be adjusted. That's all a drift car needs(except for more power and with that some semi-slicks like Toyo R888). So in short, anything that is RWD and is driftable is a drift car. Setup options(like more steering lock) can just make it a better drift car.
I would hovewer love some new RWD car that has more power and a good weight balance at the same time. And I think racers wouldn't mind such rwd car to race with as well, would they? A rotary engine rwd car would be sweet too(something like rx-7).
To all about 45 degrees as a server option. Well I think it's not necessary after all. As I said earlier, someone needing 45 degrees to save spins etc. in a race, isn't a person that is a fast racer. To be the fastest you have to correct as little as possible. Be smooth. But you guys know that.
Good point.
Anyway, I think I've came to a conclusion that I'm persuading wrong person/wrong group of people. I should be persuading Scawen about it, not the lfsforum community.
Will do what Tristan said earlier with a group of mature drifters - gather information, examples etc. and will contact Scawen about this.
Tristan - "D1" tyre couldn't be shitty. True is in real life those who have money and well prepared cars (with power, 300hp +, 400hp + etc) use semi-slicks.
Perhaps it could be a server option? 36 degree or more etc.
Also Tristan, if someone needs additional 11 degrees to get out of spin it means the person is not a skilled racer at all Therfor someone, who is trying not to spin somewhere in the back, fighting to finnish a single lap etc. 
Unless you mean people who would make unrealistic save with just little turn of mouse or a steering wheel that has 200 degrees, but it's already unrealistic right now with 36 degrees - "Binary steering, 0-1".
And here's a thread about 36 lock from rsc:
http://forum.rscnet.org/showth ... 205235&highlight=Lock
By Scawen
As we can see Scawen reduced the steering lock, because he thought it's unrealistic setup option. So I guess all is left is - stop discussing here. Make a proper petition to Scawen, show examples with real life stock cars that have more than 36 degrees. Also tuned drift cars that have lots of lock(Making steering lock bigger isn't something hard, it only gets challenging when reaching veeery high locks I think, also depends a lot on a car).
I only joined this discussion again, because during this summer and fall I've experienced drifting a lot in 1st person. Being to many real life drift events(On tracks like Nuerburgring or Hockenheim), having co-drives in proffesional drift cars. Also drifted myself on local trainings and were very impressed how close to real life lfs drifting is(And how lfs helped me to start drifting straight away). Also had a proffesional drifter buy g25 and being impressed how impressed he is with physics...
It makes me believe LFS can simulate motorsport I love, which is drifting. Maybe Scawen doesn't realise how close he made it to real life in this aspect. Maybe someone has to show him some proper facts and proofs. Or make a drift day for him, providing him a drift car to test it himself.
Perhaps it could be a server option? 36 degree or more etc.
Also Tristan, if someone needs additional 11 degrees to get out of spin it means the person is not a skilled racer at all
Therfor someone, who is trying not to spin somewhere in the back, fighting to finnish a single lap etc. Unless you mean people who would make unrealistic save with just little turn of mouse or a steering wheel that has 200 degrees, but it's already unrealistic right now with 36 degrees - "Binary steering, 0-1".
And here's a thread about 36 lock from rsc:
http://forum.rscnet.org/showth ... 205235&highlight=Lock
By Scawen
As we can see Scawen reduced the steering lock, because he thought it's unrealistic setup option. So I guess all is left is - stop discussing here. Make a proper petition to Scawen, show examples with real life stock cars that have more than 36 degrees. Also tuned drift cars that have lots of lock(Making steering lock bigger isn't something hard, it only gets challenging when reaching veeery high locks I think, also depends a lot on a car).
I only joined this discussion again, because during this summer and fall I've experienced drifting a lot in 1st person. Being to many real life drift events(On tracks like Nuerburgring or Hockenheim), having co-drives in proffesional drift cars. Also drifted myself on local trainings and were very impressed how close to real life lfs drifting is(And how lfs helped me to start drifting straight away). Also had a proffesional drifter buy g25 and being impressed how impressed he is with physics...
It makes me believe LFS can simulate motorsport I love, which is drifting. Maybe Scawen doesn't realise how close he made it to real life in this aspect. Maybe someone has to show him some proper facts and proofs. Or make a drift day for him, providing him a drift car to test it himself.
Once again, another ignorant sweet 15 with not enough LFS knowledge and experience. Setup can be made so tires won't stick out. Even now with 36 degrees if someone makes LFS setup unrealistically low, tires do stick out, but I don't see any physics taking care of it right now? Allowing 45 degrees is just a variable change and it will only affect experience in LFS when drifting. Another thing, read my post above carefully once again.
And yes ofcourse 65 would be nice, but 45 is a good compromise. It worked fine in the old times and it should work fine now.
Woz: Gunn already replied for me. So I guess this is all covered. Believe me I didn't start playing LFS yesterday.
I completly don't understand you. Are you trying to say that 36 is enough, because for "drift racers"(who "drift race") it is enough? Therfor you are supporting people who do at the moment the most stupid thing as drift racing nowadays is a demo thing based on minimizing drift angle to the minimum to get a better lap time - which is pointless, and please don't even ask me to explain why.
Honestly, the selfishnes of some people in this thread is on a unbelievable level. The only reason I can see is against 45 argument in this thread is "No, because drifters would use it". It's not a feature that would make LFS unrealistic. It's not a feature that would take much time to code(a little tiny time to be exact). It's not a feature that would hurt anyone who is racing - 45 degrees is useless in racing. It's not a feature as unrealistic and weird as many current setup options(Jump Bouncy setups, super precise gear ratios etc.).
Other thing is, the way LFS street cars are used in many leagues now is very unrealistic. Who has seen street cars in real life rally cross without roll cages? Or cars with setups like LFS street cars in races like "STTC"(That virtual leaugue connected to CTRA) without roll cages and other safety regulations as well. Does it mean those cars at the moment should be just possible to mod a little, and allow it for simple "track days simulation" ? No, because why taking out the experience of LFS? And the fun of it.
Does the fact that it's unrealistic when people who don't use clutch with LFS cars that have clutch means that autoclutch should be removed for those people?
Does the fact that people who don't use H shifter(even if they have one, but hey ! IT makes them slower right?) with LFS street cars mean that only players with H shifters should be allowed to use those cars?
Should I continue? Is a 45 degree really such a big problem? Or is it just in your heads?
I completly don't understand you. Are you trying to say that 36 is enough, because for "drift racers"(who "drift race") it is enough? Therfor you are supporting people who do at the moment the most stupid thing as drift racing nowadays is a demo thing based on minimizing drift angle to the minimum to get a better lap time - which is pointless, and please don't even ask me to explain why.
Honestly, the selfishnes of some people in this thread is on a unbelievable level. The only reason I can see is against 45 argument in this thread is "No, because drifters would use it". It's not a feature that would make LFS unrealistic. It's not a feature that would take much time to code(a little tiny time to be exact). It's not a feature that would hurt anyone who is racing - 45 degrees is useless in racing. It's not a feature as unrealistic and weird as many current setup options(Jump Bouncy setups, super precise gear ratios etc.).
Other thing is, the way LFS street cars are used in many leagues now is very unrealistic. Who has seen street cars in real life rally cross without roll cages? Or cars with setups like LFS street cars in races like "STTC"(That virtual leaugue connected to CTRA) without roll cages and other safety regulations as well. Does it mean those cars at the moment should be just possible to mod a little, and allow it for simple "track days simulation" ? No, because why taking out the experience of LFS? And the fun of it.
Does the fact that it's unrealistic when people who don't use clutch with LFS cars that have clutch means that autoclutch should be removed for those people?
Does the fact that people who don't use H shifter(even if they have one, but hey ! IT makes them slower right?) with LFS street cars mean that only players with H shifters should be allowed to use those cars?
Should I continue? Is a 45 degree really such a big problem? Or is it just in your heads?
^Post above
1. We are talking about LFS street cars.
2. LFS street cars aren't race cars.
3. Drifting isn't side effect of physics, it's the fact that physics are so good. And drifting in lfs is close to drifting in real life physics wise.
4. Why bringing up GTR spec cars example all of sudden? The thread is talking only about street cars that allow street tires etc. You can mod street Ford Sierra for example to have a VERY BIG lock, same with ae86(Toyota Corolla) and lots of other cars. Making steering lock bigger isn't something impossible, it's realistic, unlike many options in lfs setup.
5. Do you really realise what exactly this thread is about? Sigh.
Ehhh
I might as well start a new thread with suggestions for :
Only H shifter option for street cars, only manual clutch for street cars -> no auto clutch. No more many unrealistic setup options etc. No steering wheels(Like momo racing) when using street cars that have less steering lock than street cars itself(720 degrees). Moreover I don't drive GTI and other FWD, so why have it in game! Remove it! And so on. Argueing over what I wrote above would be no less stupid than argueing about 45 degree lock, a simple ingame variable change.
We can set so many things in setup that are SO HARD to set in real life or impossible, but we can't do something that in several cars is easy to set in real life. 45 degrees unrealistic? Unrealistic my ass.
I might as well start a new thread with suggestions for :
Only H shifter option for street cars, only manual clutch for street cars -> no auto clutch. No more many unrealistic setup options etc. No steering wheels(Like momo racing) when using street cars that have less steering lock than street cars itself(720 degrees). Moreover I don't drive GTI and other FWD, so why have it in game! Remove it! And so on. Argueing over what I wrote above would be no less stupid than argueing about 45 degree lock, a simple ingame variable change.
We can set so many things in setup that are SO HARD to set in real life or impossible, but we can't do something that in several cars is easy to set in real life. 45 degrees unrealistic? Unrealistic my ass.
Drifting is something you have to try to appreciate it. What you say now is like saying sex sucks without actually trying it.
I have no idea about motorsport costs in USA, but in Poland building a drift car and doing a whole season in Poland is cheaper than 1 rally in like Lancer Group N car(And can be much cheaper depending on a car, for example if its BMW E30). There's a "cheap" Kia Picanto race track series, but it still is way more expensive for me. In drifting all you need to start is actually an rwd car with power, a welded diff, set of tires(used tires aren't expensive and usually they don't really wear out that fast. And i'm not talking about semi-slicks that very proffesional drift cars use, since those price is really big.) and a place to drive(organised legal trainings) - later you just tune suspension, maybe swap engine etc. Believe me - compared to most of the motorsports it's cheapest to get into and start doing it. Just imagine having to get a proper race car, a group of mechanics, a track license etc.. Big costs, right? Also consider that in Poland term "track days" isn't as popular as in for example USA, which sucks a lot, because track days should be something that is organised often. But I guess it can't be helped when there is actually only one proper race track in Poland.
Ofcourse drifting can get very expensive at its "F1" level, but still costs are nothing compared to example F1 or WRC.
Old habits never go away
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG