I'm going to write it for the 100th time just for you.

We don't drive stock xrts.

We have xrts with extreme suspension mods. Springs, dampers, rollbars, toe, camber, you name it. We can put extreme brakes in etc.

We can even adjust gear ratios by 0.001.

So there's no reason to have back the settings for - steering lock, tracking and caster.

And ofcourse it would be a real pity if all setup options dissapeared from xrt, fz5, fxo etc. Because then street cars would become utterly boring to drive and would handle like shit.

It's just - we can do extreme race setup for xrt. Why not let us do drift setup too. Why not also implement feature that forces people to race on stock setup.

And increasing steering lock to 45 degreese isn't extreme at all. It's an easy and most of all cheaper mod than buying adjustable suspension or getting super strong brakes. Having a steering lock like on that vid would be extreme. But so are other xrt setup options..

So to sum it up. You are a real hypocrite, unless you always drive lfs cars with stock "hard" setup.

Sorry for the bump, I didn't want to create a new thread just for this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2fJzioEP44



7th second. Good camera angle for display of mad steering lock. Certainly more than a london cab steering lock, and certainly more realistic than gear ratios adjustable by 0.001.

Last edited by kamkorPL, Wed 10 Jun 2009, 11:24.

Quote from jibber :

The "community gameplay" video scared me however.

I don't think it's actual gameplay, but the way how the cars moved in this video... it's just wrong, edited or not. And this leaves some doubts about what to expect from the final product. Maybe they'll ruin it like polyphony ruined GT4, but i don't think so.

GT5 needs a rival, which will be Forza 3 most likely, and not some arcade racing game.

It has been confirmed on official forums that it's CG only.

And it has been said many times that physics had not been dumbed, but improved. And that it would be ironic to create more aids if game was easy.

So far from what I've read:

- center of gravity has been moved up compared to fm2. There's more realistic suspension work now (saw it myself on some replay bits that are hanging around on internet from e3).
- tire physics improved as tire flex was implemented.

Quote from Degats :

Many modern road cars (especially ones with wide tyres) actually can't have their steering lock increased, as the tyre is very close (if not rubbing against) the well on full lock.
The only car I know of that actually has a stock steering lock of ~45 degrees is the London TXII

We don't drive XRT with stock setups in lfs. The great thing about xrt, fz5, xrg etc is the fact that we can adjust the suspension fully etc so that they handle the way we want them to handle.

So what we drive now are not stock road cars suspension wise.. And this is not a suggestion to limit setup options.

Basically to be so f***ing fair and "its not like that in real road car", there are 2 ways to handle the situation:

1) return back bigger steering lock and add tracking settings too. Steering lock and tracking mods (spacers) are much cheaper in real life, than braking mods we can do in lfs, or suspension mods etc.

2) Disable every setup option from road cars in lfs. Leave tire pressures option and fuel fill option. That sure will make those cars very fun to drive, race, drift or whatever ..

Last edited by kamkorPL, Thu 14 May 2009, 19:24.

Feffe85: When the minds of the fresh are shadowed by the clouds of fanboyism, they can't see the true meaning of the words.

Gotta love lfs kiddo fanboy reactions. They have explanation for everything.

Just couple of quick ones:

http://nismo.1g.fi/kuvat/Vehic ... 0i/e30steeringlockftw.jpg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_R8qBiDiGfs&fmt=18
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byKBovFYp5c&fmt=18
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anuzd5g1oUM&fmt=18
http://picasaweb.google.pl/mic ... akE30#5331730547308796834
http://picasaweb.google.pl/mic ... akE30#5331730581117245442
http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/2931/20090330448.jpg
http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/3564/20090330449.jpg

I won't even mention that steering lock mod is way cheaper to do than lfs suspension mods.

I won't even start explaining over again why 45 or 50 or more steering lock is not an advantage in racing. You must be hell of a driver if you make mistakes so bad, to need such steering lock.

And I won't even mention that there's a big chance you guys don't even use anything close to 900 degrees steering.

Now you're talking Hallen Good points. I'm not a physics expert so I don't want to get involved in detailed discussion about what's exactly wrong physics wise. I just wanted to say what's wrong from driver point of view and from comments I got from very professional drifters who also have G25.

Thanks for explaining why race tires or well let's say super grippy Dot or Dot-r tires last so long. Because I knew they did, but always thought that they should last less since they are much softer compound (low QT).

I very much hope Scawen is reading this thread.

Quote from wheel4hummer :

Racing tires definitely don't last longer then some old cheapo tire. Why do you think they have to change their tires so much during a race? If you ran a race on street tires you probably would be able to go two or three races on them.

They do last longer in drifting.

There is an exception though, there's one Chinese "Wanli" tire that lasts very very long, but is not up to standards with grip to tires like ie. r888. That Wanli was and is quite popular in Poland. Because it's rather cheap and lasts long.

And ofcourse used years old tires last very short. They lose thread (parts falling off) very quickly.

Quote from DragonCommando :

Like I said, the heat vs grip level seems to be somewhat correct, overheat a tyre and it performs like driving on ice. I have overheated tyres before in real life and that is how they act.

The point is situation like 4th gear <2000rpm dori, or oval drift on 5th gear with 250 hp xrt etc. will not occur in real life. I've checked a graph from lfs someone posted here showing how grip drops after tire heat. And Lateral G wise it seems ok, but spinning the tire wise not really. No matter how much you overheat the tires, this won't make your 170 hp car drift like 600 hp monster.

Maybe it shouldn't be even possible to reach the temps we reach in lfs and the problem would be fixed then.. As the tire would probably say sayonara before reaching those temps.

I asked again a person who I really think is an expert in real life when it comes to getting the tires hot.

He tried it on grippy expensive tires like r888, r1r, also on cheap china tires.

But also keep in mind his idea of grip is.. Tons of grip.

When the tires will get very very very hot, as they start melting they can lose even up (edit: not up to, but even at least 50% less of grip) to 50% of grip. But situation like 5th gear dori on oval in 250hp xrt. Or drifts in xrg on overheated tires (xrg shouldn't be even able to reach so high temps, because the thread would go off, speaking from experience here) are not real. So maybe lateral G wise things are quite realistic in lfs, but spinning the tires wise not.

Last edited by kamkorPL, Tue 5 May 2009, 09:53.

Quote from Byku :

Mate, awesome post! But really, is it really so "simple" to catch a slide in rl? Yeah, if I give my G25 to hands ofsomeone not experienced with LFS he will spin the car easly, for me it is rather simple to catch a slide. Btw2. Is high speed drifting also realistic? Isn't it a little bit too easy? I know it is offtopic, but it's good to hear someone's opinion who knows what he's talking about .

I haven't drifted 160 km/h or 200, but I did 3rd gear entry on airport (130km/h) and the biggest difference was the fact that the surroundings were moving faster (One of the very good polish drifters once said the same thing about surroudings, I can't recall who). On the event from last weekend it was harder in 3rd gear than 2nd, because of transition to 3rd gear and lack of power - it took some clutch kicks to get the drift going properly. Then it was just that surroundings moved faster as well. edit: also with lack of power it's easier to spin on for example 3rd gear. If I did let tires slow down too much, I couldn't keep the drift going, lost angle and spun (I will post a vid later). There's a similar effect in lfs.

About catching the drift - it really isn't so hard in real life. It's not as snappy as people imagine. I only feel it is a bit too easy to get slide going, but not snappyness wise. And 2008 polish drift champion actually finds lfs harder than real life.

Ofcourse that's my subjective opinion. Maybe it's more snappy than I realise, but I think not.

Last edited by kamkorPL, Mon 4 May 2009, 10:41.

Quote from Bob Smith :

I'm sorry, but what context are you referring to this video in? As I've seen exactly the same done in LFS videos too. So are you meaning to say LFS is perfect?

What I meant was, I wanted to give example we are not e-experts and we speak from experience and from opinions of drivers who also have more real life experience and cars that get tires very hot in few runs.

I drove in that vid exactly the same way I drove that track in XRG e30 325 set in lfs. It is absolutely spot on. And that's the point. Make it more right to get real drivers do it as well. There are some downsides though, it is a bit too easy to get the slide going in lfs (and I don't really mean that its not snappy enough). And maybe there is bit too little grip. Or maybe not. It is really close.

In real life no matter how hard i burned the tires, I couldn't get them to drift like hot tires in XRG. If I could I wouldn't be getting money slowly for a more powerfull car to drift.

I don't know if LFS can teach real racing skills, but it can teach drifting skills. Normally I wouldn't be able to jump into rwd car and start sliding it as if I've done it before. Same story happend with Ally, who bought his first car couple months ago (s14a). See his qual run here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v ... &feature=channel_page

You can view on that channel our tsuiso battle on that event as well. Last run of that battle http://www.youtube.com/watch?v ... &feature=channel_page

And the best part is, I even turn the wheel in real life like i do G25 when drifting. The reactions are very similar and natural vice versa. I can't do it naturally with rfactor, or iracing soltice (very very snappy car).

2008 Polish drift champion bought g25 and played some lfs, but after few drifting attempts he was suprised why it was sudennly so hard to catch the drift. But other than that he was suprised with lfs physics, he found it too hard to drift in lfs though and blamed it on the cars mostly.

2007 Polish drift champion play lfs from time to time too. His biggest complain is unrealistic ffb with g25.

There are some other drifters with cars that can get tires much more hot than my lacking power bemer, but they do not experience soap as well. I think you can agree that comparision to drifting is much better to judge hot tires.

I'm going a bit offtopic here, and I know you guys hate what I'm saying, because I mention drifting, but lfs is a brillant drifting simulator. Somehow the devs managed what others couldn't - make the car drift very, I mean very close to real life. So maybe they should invest little time to make 1 dori XRT (more power, tracking options setup, caster, steering lock) and fix those soap tires.

Last edited by kamkorPL, Mon 4 May 2009, 10:10.

Quote from Hallen :

I'm sorry, but comparing drifto tires to race tires is two completely different things. Drift tires are made to be slick (soapy if you will), and make lots of smoke. In real terms, they are crap tires. They are made to withstand the heat by letting it escape as smoke and massive quantities of rubber. It makes for a better show.

2008 Polish Drift Champion was using Toyo R888 tires all season and the grip levels didn't get soapy at all. Insteed the tires have been keeping great grip.

What's your assumption based on? My vid was just a proof that so many are seeking that we do not speak bullshit. And I did mention that I also was speaking based on comments from drifters with highly invested cars (which includes new very grippy semi slick tires).

edit:

1) So if I buy r888 or R1R or other semi-slick alike tire, I will be able to drift 4th gear with clouds of smoke, because it will get soapy after long burnout? WRONG.

2) There is no such thing as drift tire (except for Kumho coloured smoke tires, or burnout tires :P).

edit2:

3) Lfs street cars have road tires. To me normal tire is normal price real life tire. Super tire is high perfomance bridgestone, toyo, good year etc tire or worse.

Last edited by kamkorPL, Sun 3 May 2009, 22:45.

DragonCommando: I'm going to quote myself in case if you missed my post.

Quote from kamkorPL :

And hot tires in real life are not even close to hot tires in lfs behaviour wise. What Matrixi is saying is absolutely right.

I speak from experience http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTJZK1szuLk (1 day ago) and based on comments from drifters with cars that can get tires very very hot and smokey. So yeah, it is wrong. Other sims can get it more right, so why not LFS as well?

This has been an issue since tire heating was introduced. It would be nice if Scawen has put some time in it, or commented the issue.

1) We are talking about cars, I have no idea how it affects bike.
2) I wish it was true what you are saying, because then I would have been able to put up a better fight with more powerfull cars and wouldn't have to keep clutch kicking on 3rd gear to keep the drift going.

Quote from Gnomie :

My main gripe with the tyre model in LFS remains the lenient slip angles and smooth transitions from grip <--> slide. This is something that affects us in all races. But that's another discussion.

I just hope that devs won't make it over snappy like in most sims. It's very close to real life behaviour now. At least street tires wise.

And hot tires in real life are not even close to hot tires in lfs behaviour wise. What Matrixi is saying is absolutely right.

I speak from experience http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTJZK1szuLk (1 day ago) and based on comments from drifters with cars that can get tires very very hot and smokey. So yeah, it is wrong. Other sims can get it more right, so why not LFS as well?

This has been an issue since tire heating was introduced. It would be nice if Scawen has put some time in it, or commented the issue.

Quote from jibber :

My god... flaming another guy because he uses snowblades... way to go!

Hahahah, in 2 words: "LFS FORUM"

Sutil fastest lap

To add something new to this kind of thread let me say some news :

Drifting is about to become a FIA motorsport in Australia c alled "Drift Racing".

Also some news from previous "Why you hate drift thread" , but updated:

I mentioned that WRC driver Meeke planned to compete in Pro Drift Series in Ireland. - http://www.prodriftseries.com/ ... wrc-meeke-signs-up-to-pd/

Unfortunately he didn't do very well.

Chris Meeke interviewed about drifting: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yEI-l-Vml0

edit:

Found a picture of Meeke from round 1 :


Also quote about Meeke perfomance:

Quote :

considering he'd only sat his arse in the car on friday for 4 runs, then a few runs on saturday before it broke a prop shaft, he was well up there and i rekon coulda made it into the top 16 but fueling problems put him out

source: http://www.driftworks.com/forum/718798-post21.html

Quote from Ian.H :

Damn stupid skidders

You stay quiet "speed of the night"

Last edited by kamkorPL, Sat 24 May 2008, 11:04.

Quote from LFSn00b :

His name is Sudo, but i dont remember his S2 License name :/



EDIT: apparently the S2 name is "sudo" too

Sudo IS NOT the founder of LFS-Torque. The founder of LFS-Torque is a founder of oryginal and first drift community formed at IDX forums. Drift community moved from IDX to LFS-Torque. It is Bunta / Nuvolari.

Sudo has been paying for domain / server, and all the LFS-T down times were caused by him not paying the bills. Also the webhost costs or domain costa are not a problem now.

Today's practice didn't say much, other that the weather can mix up things today.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/67285 - results from today's practice.

Downloaded the demo, was late at night so only tried drift mode:

Pros:
- Even though I have set gfx to LOW it really does look very impressive.
- At times drifting even feels a little bit realistic, but it doesn't matter because.. Well that in the cons later.
- It is possible to spin out in drift mode, which is quite a suprise.
- Sounds and crashes are nice. It's also sweet that surroundings crash too.

Cons:
- The car is basicall swimming on the road. There is really no sense of a proper grip, it just swims on road and turns around some center point. It only feels like there is some grip when drifting(As when actually being in drift). And they even get some things right at times, but most of the time it just feels weird.
- ForceFeedback is pretty much SHIT. I thought - ok, beginning the drift, steering wheel is going to countersteer, but no - nothing happens. Basically FFB is just resistance. There is absolutely NO REALISM to it.
- It feels more realistic when playing on kb than it is when playing on a steering wheel.
- Drift mode scoring sucks. I think it doesn't even score the last sector of the course.

Summing it up: I really don't like when developers put some realistic aspects in the game and mix it up with totally arcadey feel and aspects. It really is very annoying when car does behave wrong. I expect something realistic to happen, then something completly wrong happens making the car totally unpredictable. And it is prooven that arcade games can have car behabiour more or less realistic. Then arcade games are much better imo. To me arcade driving game should be basically a game with physics that are realistic, but that are tweaked down so they are not too hard and fun for casual gamers.

I do not recommend the game, unless someone wants to learn new physics that work only on Codemasters planet or maybe crash the cars around.

Quote from Jakg :

What an awful bastardization of a good song (the original "Black Betty" by Ram Jam)..

So true. Oryginal Black Betty +1. // edit: Actually, maybe not oryginal since i'm not sure if its even Ram Jam who created the song first, but Ram Jam version kicks ass more non the less

Sorry for offtopic.

Last edited by kamkorPL, Fri 9 May 2008, 10:53.

Don't want to repeat others, so:

Yer Blues, I've Got A Feeling

Also - Revolution in all versions.

I think we should be the least worried about how quick or slow the tires heat up and cool down in lfs, and more worried about how they behave when they get hot.

Quote from kamkorPL :

Actually the announcement will be out in next issue of Maxi Tuning - a full page about live for speed. When the issue will be out I will make some picture.

As promised.



On saturday the 26th, starting from 6pm gmt+01 there will be a live report from studio at HSTV.PL with well known polish lfs community member and with a well known real life drifter.

Driftingo LFS Drift Series announcement

In DE language version: http://www.driftingo.de/News/e ... -LFS-Drift-Series-2008,51

We are organising a 2008 polish drift season. Main sponsor is Driftingo, and the second is Maxi Tuning. There will be reports of each round at driftingo site and also reports in Maxi Tuning magazines.

Actually the announcement will be out in next issue of Maxi Tuning - a full page about live for speed. When the issue will be out I will make some picture.

The next cool thing - there will be live reports at internet TV: hstv.pl - in studio there will be a mate from lfs.pl and a real drifter.

There are also long lists of prizes for Top 3 + some things for everyone from Top 8. There will be prizes in each round ofcourse.