Quote from Kosmo :

The understeer thing is a big discussion. In any real car I've driven and pushed...

This question is not meant to offend. It should have been asked to mrodgers and I, but its the default question that should be asked when someone claims to have authority on any subject.

What cars have you driven and "pushed?"

As mentioned before the light steering is more noticeable in front wheel drive cars. However the aforementioned effect is clearly noticeable if the front tires are locked in most cars.

Quote from mrodgers :

...*snip* the FF is being directly transfered from the forces acted upon the front wheels/tires. *snip*...

Actually the FF is from the front end geometry only, LFS doesn't translate the tire friction/forces IIRC. The reason why the steering is really light when stopped is because tire friction is not being translated.

Quote from mrodgers :

You should not feel any lightening of the wheel except in extreme understeering situations. I don't think you get enough understeer in RWD in LFS to feel the wheel 'go light'. In the XFG front wheel drive, you do feel it. Only, the wheel doesn't actually 'go light' in understeer situations. It just kind of goes neutral. There are still forces acting upon the wheels causing them to want to track the direction of the car. Only in extreme tractionless situations, such as driving in snow, does the steering wheel become completely free of forces, thus feels 'light' to the driver. On drive pavement, there are still forces acting upon your wheels, thus keeping the force on the steering wheel.


The forces 'going light' in other sims that you may be use to are simply wrong.

I agree, the steering FFB should not lighten for any reason, unless the wheels are off the ground, or past maximum slip angle while on ice.

Last edited by legoflamb, Tue, 26 Aug 2008 06:23. Reason : New information

Quote from Stefani24 :

You got 3 feet?

Of course don't you?

Quote from [RF]-art555 :

Well, I've just tryed it in LFS, and the AT tranny we have now is acting the way I saw in the vid, so I don't think it was what I've thought at first

darn... you got my hopes up.

Quote from [RF]-art555 :

Hmmm
Did anyone noticed in this vid, that at lap 2 (was the most visible place) at the end of straight, while downshifting, there were throttle blips and seeing as they were quite identical I assume it was done by LFS, not the player. What interests me is are we getting an DSG gearbox or is it a normal behaviour for AT transmition?

EDIT: Just tryed AT in game (for the first time lol) and it works like that, disregard whats posted higher...

That would be amazing! I really hope you are right, the DSG is the only AT transmission worth simulating. Assuming they didn't put auto blip back in LFS for GC, it seams like they might have.

What is a stomper?

New content is always great,
In reality, I just can't wait!
Whether it's a car or tracks,
LFS Devs always have our backs.

Quote from DeadWolfBones :

Left foot 4 lyfe, LFS and real life.

At least until I get a manual transmission car. :P

That is when left foot braking is the most fun. rly it is

Not directed at you DeadWolfBones.

I don't see a reason to be completely dependent on a single foot for braking especially if you haven't put in the effort and try to use either. That is just removing an option you can or could have used.

In before the....

Generally I use either depending on the car and situation/corner. However, iff I have to down shift (with H-shift), I'll use my right for the initial brake-in, and then switch to my left foot in the same corner, depending on the corner. Two corners, I switch feet in, that I can think of right now, are the long sweeper at South City that comes off the main straight, and the sweeper at Aston Grand Touring where you have a quick left then the right hand sweeper following immediately after.

Quote from JasonJ :

Oh,....... so having it as a server setting isn't enough? Well if you want to force EVERYONE to use the same view, then you should force everyone to use G25. I'm sure servers will be full no doubt.

There is a major contrasting difference in your statement. With FCV no one has to spend any extra money, however someone is not forced to spend 300 USD on the G25 for a decent wheel, nor do you have to buy a wheel.

Your statement is a fallacy, those two situations are incomparable. However you could say "might as well force everyone to use locked differentials.

Quote from ssm :

Actually, I was just covering my brake pedal to prepare to left foot brake for a tight corner, but vacuum assist takes a lot of feedback from the brakes, so I end up depressing the brake pedal without knowing.

Actually, it is kind of easy to lock up the brakes. I remember this incident back a few years when I was getting my license. I was driving with my mom on our local canyon road outside out house. I have no ABS on my Lexus ES300, and a garbage truck pulled out in front of me from a neighborhood, and I had to brake quickly, I just tapped to brakes quickly, and I heard skidding sounds, but I did stop relatively immediately and was able to get out of the way of the truck.

Yeah I did the same thing when I was practicing left foot braking, that's why I like to have less power assist because you can tell if the pads have made contact with the rotor. Where as if you don't realize you are slightly riding the brakes it may seem as though you have a loss in power.

Quote from lerts :

you know why my faouvorite is chase view cause it reminds me of my childhooh autocross:

http://picomike.files.wordpress.com/2007/12/autocross.jpg

Off/T
WOW that is awesome, where can I get one?!

On/T
IMO other views are not that much faster but allow for greater consistency.

Quote from ssm :

Yeah, more feedback. . I sometimes get bored at 3am(When I don't feel like reading forums, coding, drawing, playing video games, or watching porn) I go out and drive on our local back road.

I sometimes catch myself riding the brakes a little with my left foot so that I get better feel of the brakes approaching a turn.

Lol same but you have to be careful, I once got to the point where I was having too much fun, overused the brakes, and couldn't get any brake boost, like you I was on some canyon roads. Losing brake boost there is really scary and is not something pleasant to experience.

Quote from Hallen :

Sorry, wrong words. How do you reduce power assist on the brakes? Do you put a restrictor in the vacuum line or do you just replace the whole brake booster.

I have an 87 BMW 325is (E30) track rat. The engine is completely disassembled right now while I work on the rebuild. Stupid PO who didn't change oil.

That was my fault, I should have got the context of the conversation and realized what we were talking about.

Back on topic:
I haven't reduced the the brake boost, I just like how the brakes feel when the vacuum has been depleted.

From what I have read, you'll probably want to replace the whole vacuum assembly with a hydroboost system for safety reasons (loosing vacuum when you really need it), however you can get a bigger master cylinder. Using a bigger master cylinder should require more force through the pedal but it will also make the pedal travel shorter.

It is something I have also been wanting to do since I have owned the car, but haven't gotten around to doing.

Last edited by legoflamb, Thu, 14 Aug 2008 07:43.

Quote from Hallen :

Thats because of those itty-bitty skinny tires you use on that tinkertoy car .

Yes, there are exceptions and yes, you can put more brake on a car than is necessary or wise (I'm not saying you have, btw). Still, LFS allows you to put on so much brake that you can lock up at full speed with minimal brake pressure. That is a bit silly, but I suppose it could be done in real life too.

BTW, how do you reduce the boost? I am wanting to do that to my track rat too.

Oh I'm sure I have more brake force than necessary, or wise for that matter.

Reduce boost? Now why would you want to do that? What car do you drive at the track? Do you have a Mazda Speed Miata? I am not sure how to reduce boost. I think it has something to do with the waste-gate.

Last edited by legoflamb, Tue, 12 Aug 2008 06:03.

Quote from Hallen :

If you are talking about high speeds and having the brakes lock, then that is because LFS allows you to put silly high braking force values on the car. Real cars won't lock up at high speed no matter how hard you press on the brake. Try it in your passenger car. Get up to 60 or 70 mph and mash the brakes. You won't start feeling the ABS until you are slowed down to something like 40ish mph (assuming you have decent tires). I would say start at a higher speed, but that would be unsafe and illegal unless you were at a track.

If you put on a big brake kit, you will have more brake force available and then you might be able to lock the tires from a higher speed. You have to be very careful with this though since that starts getting very dangerous.

The best brake setup is one in which the tires will be at an optimal slip angle range when you apply full braking power at you highest expected speed and then the driver or ABS will have to modulate the brakes as the car slows down.

Sorry I have a Miata with no ABS, its a really light car and can lock up at 60 to 80 MPH. Personally, I like really strong brakes with very low power assist.
It makes for more sensitive brake control, which makes driving more fun.

Last edited by legoflamb, Sat, 9 Aug 2008 09:54.

Quote from Hallen :

Nope. Absolutely not. For qualy and short runs real race cars will generally go out with higher pressures in the tires than they will for long regular race stints.

There is an optimal pressure where the tire works best. When you are doing something like qualifying, especially in F1, you will do an out lap, hot lap, and in lap. The tires won't have time to get enough heat to come up to pressure if you ran at a lower pressure. They therefore start at a higher pressure to make sure the tires are optimal for that one lap.

Longer stints will start with lower pressure because more heat will ultimately be generated so in order for the tire to be at optimal pressure for the majority of the stint, they start with lower pressures that will take a few laps to build up to the right pressure.

I don't know exactly what this means as far as tire temperatures, both internal and surface, but that is basically what is done for the pressures.

Quote from Official Formula 1 Website (paragraph 14) :

“We issue a safe range of pressures for our tyres and the teams must keep within this range, but there is still good scope for drivers to dial-in to get their preferred response. In basic terms a higher pressure within the safe limits we give will provide more stability, whilst a lower pressure means the tyre heats up slower, but it also degrades less, and is less sensitive to bumps.”

The statement on the official website that I was referring to was "whilst a lower pressure means the tyre heats up slower".

The quote was not talking about what air pressures work best with what tires, nor was the optimal situation mentioned in the aforementioned paragraph. The paragraph states how tires perform "in basic terms."

I agree that the lower the tire pressure, longer time is needed for optimal tire pressure to be reached.

However, I am no expert in this field. If new information comes across my path, from an expert in said field, or data that can be trusted to be true, proving the contrary to what I have read elsewhere, I will agree with the statement quoted from The Official Formula 1 interview.

Quote from Glenn67 :

....

I'm fairly certain that what you mention does happen in LFS, however like you said it might not be or might be too dramatic. There is really only one way to tell, and that would be to try using lower tire pressures in real life and compare. Even then you can't be completely sure.

Last edited by legoflamb, Sat, 9 Aug 2008 09:36. Reason : additional info

Quote from BenjiMC :

+1. I am pretty sure he was either mis quoted or mistaken.

I agree, sometimes writers change the quotes thinking they are correcting their misheard mistake, when in reality they heard right.

Quote from ssm :

I understand that this is a "true simulation" and is "hardcore". With no driving aids or trainers or safety webs for drivers. But I seem to notice something about the brakes on certain cars. I think it's most noticeable in the Formula BMW.

There seems to be an "Antilock Brake System" effect when I slam on the brakes at speeds 65+ mph. I do not hear or see any skidding when I slam on the brakes at higher speeds. It also slows down very dramatically and quickly. I thought that it was just that the FBM did this because of the immense amount of grip present in its front tyres. Though, it is ALSO very apperent in the XRG as well.

Anyone have any comments on this "problem" or "bug"?

If break help is off, then try raising the brake force in the brake settings while in the pits.

I keep my brakes set to, in the XRG: 1200 Nm, in the FBM: 800 Nm per wheel and have no problem locking the brakes if i really wanted to.

Quote from Bluebird B B :

An real modern autmatic gearbox comes with a lot of software and a nice computer to run its software...and simulate this in a race-simulator? Not a good idea, to expensive to build into lfs i think and no added value to the simulation.
-100!

How is simulating a modern automatic transmission too expensive to build into LFS? As for the added value to the sim, that depends on what kind of modern automatic gearbox.

go to options> controls> axis/FF> look at your steer axis and set to inverse by clicking on the button that says either "inverse 0 or inverse 1"

IMO, the most important update damage wise is the suspension and wheel(rim) damage. The reason for this is to force people to be more concerned about running over curbs at 90mph (namely FB Green) and worry if their suspension will collapse the first time rather than 50 laps of hitting the same curbs.

Not only would hitting high curbs at high speed damage the suspension, but would also damage the steering column, the toe and camber, the dampers, the rims, etc.

At the moment(from now and the next patch) IMO, parts falling off is not that necessary compared to these things.

Admin stands for administrator, and administrator kinda means manager. So someone with Admin Rights has the rights to manage a server. To get those rights you:

1. create a server

or

2. meet people that run a server, get to know them well enough to let you manage their server

That is what that is all about, I am just solidifying what obsolum had to say.

Just admit that automatic transmissions that are commonly found in everyday drivers are not worth simulating. The only automatic transmission worth simulating would be a Direct Shift Gearbox (DSG) or a six-speed, semi-automatic transmission system found in something like the Subaru.

Both of those are semi-automatic however the DSG does allow for an automatic mode.

If the aforementioned transmission were simulated, it would just be like the viscous clutch differential in that it would be used by few and not really benefit in the development of lfs. I agree with Woz

Last edited by legoflamb, Thu, 24 Jul 2008 20:45.