The biggest difference between btcc and NASCAR is that btcc is just really rude driving. If a btcc driver makes a move it's either leave room or crash. In NASCAR is you block someone, you make that person mad and he decides to pit maneuver you into 5 other bystandards then it's your fault for making him mad in the first place.

In the btcc video Neal and Plato drove very rudely. But Neal could have easily pitted Plato and he didn't and Plato turning Neal was purely because Plato wasn't giving up the line for ANYTHING.

I'll use a non-sonoma example for NASCAR. In NASCAR, Carl Edwards waited a full lap to turn into Brad which caused Brad to lift in the air. At martinsville, Tony Stewart's brakes suddenly faded and he turned into Ricky rudd. Tony apologized over the radio yet rudd still decided to wreck him. Now at Sonoma, Greg zipadelli told logano that "you aren't a man if you don't wreck"

So how in any way shape or form is this attitude towards each other the same in Btcc, or even v8 supercars? V8S drivers rub and bump all the time yet there isn't a single revenge wreck I've seen in 2010 and 2011 so far. In fact I'd say that sometimes v8 supercars have more rubbing than a NASCAR race and they race on some of the most unwieldy tracks ever.

Maybe NASCAR drivers should watch some v8 supercar races on how to race really rough and tough without using their nuts to do the thinking

Last edited by lizardfolk, Thu 30 Jun 2011, 04:18.

Quote from PMD9409 :

NASCAR got huge off "bad publicity" when Allison and Cale started fighting in the inside grass at Daytona when it was the first time NASCAR was ever aired on TV.

Right so that's better than getting huge for just having good racing? A racing series should be more known for it's proper racing more than the controversies. If a series is ONLY known for its controversies then there's probably something wrong with the series in question

Quote from PMD9409 :

Comparing it to WWE is just silly because nothing is staged. If someone gets wrecked out, expect the same treatment next time they see you. BTCC is well-known for its contact as well, and it makes for great racing. When NASCAR goes to a road course, its nothing more than just touring cars.

Actually... it's not. I dont see Jason Plato purposefully waiting a full lap to wreck someone when he gets punted. I also dont see BTCC drivers complaining about "blocking" then punting people because they are "blocking". There's a difference between being rough and with lots of contact, than just being a demo derby.

As I've already said, the drivers "being the law enforcement" is a stupid idea because the driver doesnt always have the best view and or judgment of what's going on (in my opinion the drivers rarely have the best judgment during a race). I'm sure Brad felt that he was unfairly squeezed. But a clear viewing of the replay would show that Montoya did absolutely nothing wrong and Brad just misjudged the situation.

Exact same thing with Tony. Vickers did nothing wrong. Tony decided from his own limited perspective that he did and punted Vickers into plenty of innocent by standards.

Quote from PMD9409 :

Happens all the time at road courses, you guys blowing it out of proportion is why NASCAR let it happens. You speak of them, so it's the publicity they love.

Hard racin + beatin/bangin + spin/crash + controversy = NASCAR

Where have you guys been?

Alright sure, they get publicity. But I was never one to believe that there's no such thing as bad publicity.

It's not even the fact that NASCAR racing is rough on road courses. With these heavy hard to control stock cars there's bound to be lots of wrecks.

However, a large mount of racing incidents is different than large amounts of direct revenge wrecking. Tony Stewart dumping Vickers was a perfect example of stupidity. He dumped Vickers for blocking but Vickers actually wasn't blocking he was taking a shallow line because Kyle Busch was off in the dirt and just rejoined. From Tony's perspective Vickers was blocking him. But that actually wasn't the case. So drivers taking "the law" into their own hands is one of the most retarded policies I've seen. I cant tell you how many times I've gotten angry in iRacing because i thought someone dumped me purposely when I found out later through a replay that I was just in the middle of a racing incident. Drivers don't always have the right perspective so getting angry and "doing justice" immediately after a racing incident is hardly racing.

Last edited by lizardfolk, Thu 30 Jun 2011, 00:54.

Quote from mustafur :

''let em be boys''...

yeah!!!! If you can't pass someone on skill and talent alone then be a man and wreck him!!!!! Whoooo a real man always wrecks when they dont have the talent to pass!!!!!

Quote from UncleBenny :

Umm... I dont really see how mustafur was trolly. He's right, this is pretty pathetic.

Like the Brad v. Montoya incident all the commentators was like "oh yeah, that was definitely montoya's fault for pushing brad's envelope" and I was like "WHAT!!!!!???"

1. Montoya maybe MAYBE squeezed a Brad a little bit. But it was so miniscule that brad's left side tyres didn't even tough the dirt. So how was that "montoya running brad off the road?"

2. So based on that incident alone, Montoya didn't do anything wrong yet he pissed someone off and that person wrecked him so that incident is 100% montoya's fault... really... when someone starts thinking with his nuts and wrecks you it's your fault?

Basically... if I was in NASCAR, I could just use an excuse that "he did X and I didn't like that so I'm going to wreck him" and NASCAR wont do anything cause it's "boys being boys". Even if X is a completely legitimate move and I just dumped him cause I can't pass him with skill and talent alone.

Last edited by lizardfolk, Thu 30 Jun 2011, 00:20.

Quote from GreyBull [CHA] :

Who won? Could you please give us a link to standings please?

I did

Quote from GreyBull [CHA] :

Sorry for being slightly confusing. By "racecraft" I wasn't refeer to their ability to lap fast and consistantly. I was more refeering to their problems to deal decently enough in traffic-filled situations(for example under blue flags)

Yeah, admittedly the HRTs haven't been that graceful under blue flag conditions.

Quote from 'GreyBull [CHA :

I kinda am an HRT fan since everyone hates them, but TBH both Liuzzi and Karthikeyan showed pretty much poor racecraft so far this season. About sheer performance, you can hardly compare them to the rest of the field considering how much of a dog this HRT is. You can hardly compare them together too, I mean, HRT has enough trouble lining up two working cars at every single GP, so who knows if they can actually manage to give more or less equal cars to their both drivers.

Not quite sure what ur getting at Yann.

You said both Luizzi and Karthikeyan has shown "poor racecraft" this season then you say that how crappy the HRT cars are... so are you blaming the two driver's racecraft on themselves or their car?

Quote from 'GreyBull [CHA :

Best ever result beaten(or equaled?) for HRT, too bad they didn't get 12th as this would have promoted them to 9th at the champ.

For F1 rejects both Luizzi and Karthikeyan are doing very well in HRT imho. It's nice to see the two not fail in F1 for once

Quote from DeadWolfBones :

Thing is, Webber never would have been close enough to use DRS if his car wasn't significantly faster than Schumacher's.

So either you have slow cars holding faster cars up indefinitely due to shitty aero interference, or you have the faster car zooming past with DRS to compensate for the shitty aero interference.

DWB is right. The way I see it the DRS balances out the massive aero dependency. The DRS itself wont make the HRTs pass the Red Bulls. Maybe the advantage of the DRS is a little too big. But I'd much rather have the DRS than have massively slower cars holding up faster cars for ages and ages

BTW, has anyone noticed that Hispania out raced the Virgins on the final lap? Actually it's a job well done for both Luizzi and Karthikeyan

Quote from GianniC :

Great race indeed afterall, yet I can't shake the feeling that the double DRS zone robbed us from even better racing.

Oh you mean a race with no passing? Ok gotcha

Last edited by lizardfolk, Sun 12 Jun 2011, 21:22.

Quote from lizardfolk :

Your Name: Juen-Jen Wang
LFS Licence: lizardfolk
Team: Raptr.com Racing
Car Number: 41

^ Updated Team

I'll be in

Just woke up and saw this thread. I can enter

Your Name: Juen-Jen Wang
LFS Licence: lizardfolk
Team: Raptr.com Racing
Car Number: 81

Last edited by lizardfolk, Sat 18 Jun 2011, 01:44.

Ugh, he's done. He's not going to be in the 500. Shame, was rooting for the first Chinese driver to start the 500 and his qualifying laps looked good enough to put him 6th on the grid... I hope he gets a full time ride in Indy next year...

Last edited by lizardfolk, Sun 22 May 2011, 07:28.

ROFL doesn't stop sponsorship money from pouring into NASCAR and making it the biggest us motorsports market. LOL

While we're on the subject of factory teams in US racing... Heck Indy doesn't have factory teams either...

No factory chevy, or dallara team and idk if I would count the lotus sponsored KV team as a "factory lotus Indy team"

Last edited by lizardfolk, Thu 19 May 2011, 09:59.

Quote from PMD9409 :

What a waste of a driver seat.

Well... Scott speed IS "the best American open wheel driver there is" :rolleyes:

Quote from funRacer[83] :

I did read that part, but it´s not enough info over there I already explained ->here<- why. But I do know that you are to stupid to understand it so I don´t expect an answer from you.

Haha talking to you two asslicker I rememberd the "Human Centipad" from Southpark where the person in front takes a shit and the second have to eat it, and then when the second takes a shit the third eats his shit. You two are obviously the ones eating it.

I actually dont understand how Moose and Deko are talking shit. How are their arguments inherently stupid?

Last edited by lizardfolk, Tue 3 May 2011, 05:20.

Quote from MadCatX :

So, a pretty much harmless icon of the world terrorism was killed by a CIA commando. Now terrorist cells from all over the world are raising fists and threatening with another attacks.
My respects, you did a hell of a job there...

http://www.voanews.com/english ... s-Pakistan-121075424.html

Although i wouldn't say he's harmless....

Quote from Forbin :

ISI engine = fail

\/

Quote from BurnOut69 :

I dont really understand the bashing, the isi engine has the potential to produce good mods, as Niels and others demonstrated

There we go.

Go over to Race Department David. You'll find a more receptive community there

http://www.racedepartment.com/forum.php

I'm going to try a Richard Burns Rally league there

I'm allergic to alcohol

But i do a lot of drugs... and by drugs i mean redbull

Quote from funRacer[83] :

that is not an excuse for the broken sr..

I was once at 1800 iRaitings and a high 3.9 D class. After a few days of week 13 i dropped to 900 iR and a 2.1 D class (no joke just as Oscar). I decided that i should probably stop trying to over drive everything at every corner and soon enough, after 2 days I'm 3.2 D and 1500 iR again.

The system isn't broken. It just isn't always fair. But it does balance itself out in the long run. If you are a consistent enough driver, a few incidents that aren't your fault won't really hurt you in the long run

Quote from funRacer[83] :

nah it´s not SR it´s just the business model where you feel ****ed over every time you buy some shit from the game and lack of interest in the game.. Buy Cars and tracks I don´t want just to level up? Pretty shitty lol.

It does suck that iRacing costs so much. I'd rather see a monthly fee + $60 for either license and $120 for both. But that's just my own fantasy.

Quote from funRacer[83] :

Just get rid of the sr let the people race what ever car and track they want use the irating, qualification or what ever to decide who is racing against who.. No problem with that..

Except that defeats the purpose of an organized licensed system?... Also a person with a high iRaiting doesn't = safe driver A lot of the fast guys are really scary to race with sometimes.

Quote from funRacer[83] :

I kinda like to not post my personal informations on the internet. I know it may sound crazy to you but I also don´t put nude pictures of me on the internet.

Right... because giving us your iRacing (presumably real) name is the same as posting naked pictures of yourself... :rolleyes:

Last edited by lizardfolk, Mon 2 May 2011, 10:29.

Quote from Storm_Cloud :

How come Helio didn't get a penalty for bumping Wilson but PT got one for doing exactly the same thing to, um, I think it was one of the girls?

It was to Simona De Silvestro. But yeah IDK why indy didnt penalize Helio for it especially since he did the same thing to Power later.

But indycar probably felt Helio's punt was a racing incident or something while they probably thought PT was being reckless. IDK it's a judgment call and I didnt see the incident with PT. I did see Helio lock his wheels up though which signifies that Helio did attempt to slow down.

Quote from DeadWolfBones :

Great drive by Conway.

Yeah I was so surprised to see him that good especially since he was mired at the back from a bad pitstop. Also, I would like to say that Oriol Servia did a fantastic job missing Power, then feeding back quickly and without any incidents. That was a great recovery by Servia too

I never said i found it repetitive i just found watching the broadcast boring. I'm sure in person i would have a totally different sentiment. But the WRC broadcasts on tv put me to sleep despite whatever's happening on screen