I've just been trying the RAC and yes it's quite twitchy! But when you hit a corner just right it's a joy. It really carves through the turn when it takes a set. Takes a lot of practice to get it right. You also have to be careful to downshift either at low revs or in a very straight line with autoclutch. It likes to grab the rear end a bit on turn-in, kinda like the FBM but more severe.

It's also a drift machine. But drifting with a 270 deg wheel is kinda tough for me. :\

Quote from The Very End :

Now that would just be cruel
However, I like the way it is now, when there is a reset of stats the old PB time stands in grey, while new valid PB's standing with bold letters.

Yeah, you gotta recognize past achievement. Like an "old stats" part of the site.

Quote from dougie-lampkin :

If EA had their heads screwed on, they'd make a shiny new HD "underground" type game, to rival midnight club or burnout paradise. It might still be flogging the cash cow, but at least the "old" NFS followers would be happy they have a new game to play, and the simmers would be happy because they can stay well awya from it.

Well, they tried that with Undercover. Didn't seem to work too well.

I'm pretty sure the entire reason for this development cycle team rotation thing is so that they can produce a variety of types of games. Undercover came out earlier, now it's time for a change of pace with Shift, and then it'll be time for another arcade game in 2010 sometime. I really like that idea.

But, I just love driving games, whether it's arcade like Grid or really realistic like LFS.

Well, thanks to The Very End, I don't need to compete any more.

What a dude.

Quote from th84 :

I still don't understand what he has done that is so "wonderful".... or what was done that anyone else couldn't do if they had the same amount of free time to spend doing it..

Well lets see, he's got the most miles, the most wins, the most races, and the most laps of anyone in the community.

If there is a single posterboy for LFS, this is him. Can't deny it, he loves his LFS.

For those saying he's not good at road racing.. dudes, seriously. Even if most of his racing is done on ovals, he still has many thousands more miles on road tracks than most of us ever will...

Quote from AndRand :

I can't see why locked diff off-throttle would make car understeer?

Because the wheels are making different radius turns, they can't spin at the same rate. The outside drags, the inside is pushed, and it creates a rotational force around the center of mass that pushes the nose of the car to the outside, creating understeer.

Quote from The Very End :

For example say you do 10 lap race, and you get a best lap at 1.40 at Blackwood. Then it could stand something like (for me)
The_Very_End BL1 1.40_xrt .. wrong, but it's something close to that. The replay name contains all the information needed both for you and LFSworld

Okie doke, but when I try to upload a test file, it says wrong version and I need 0.5Z, but I have 0.5Z... at least so says the main menu. I've installed some textures, would that make it invalid?

Man, I wish I wasn't so slow in LFS...

I bet having a FFB wheel would make me 1-2 sec a lap faster. I'll give it a go though.

EDIT: Question, if I do say 10 laps in the hotlap mode, how do I get the replay of just the 1 lap to post here?

Quote from JeffR :

Are either of the other 2 demo cars rear wheel drive?

The XFG, the hatchback is FWD, and that's the one that oversteers for me. The XRG, the coupe, is RWD and that doesn't when off the throttle. At least with the default setups.

BTW, iRacing has a free trial now?

Quote from [DUcK] :

yah, i know
it just seemed that the op thought that any car would lift-off-oversteer no matter what diff it had

Of course. Silly of me to think you wouldn't.

I just did some quick laps in the two road cars in the demo and they didn't really oversteer as much as I expected them to when I lifted, with the default sets. The XFG felt alright when the tires were cold but when they warmed up it seemed to go away. The XRG didn't really do it at all.

But like Duck said, not every car is supposed to spin if you lift in a sweeper!

Quote from [DUcK] :

its in the diff son, and also they way most of us set the setups up. chuck an lsd or an open diff the xrg, you will see some lift off oversteer. i drive a v8 commodore cup car irl, and i dont get lift off oversteer, sure it helps turn, but it doesn't necessarily give me oversteer.
as for having too much grip, i find racing on lfs is like a simulation for a damp track irl, i reckon it has no grip at all!
oh, some specs about the cup car if it concerns you:
1340kg
spooled diff

A locked or spool differential has inherent understeer. The outside tire is trying to speed up and the inside is trying to slow down relative to the chassis speed. Thus, negative (rearward) forces are applied to the outside of the car and positive (forward) forces are applied to the inside of the car, turning the car to the outside.

For the Formula 3 cars that my school runs at Infineon Raceway with viscous differentials, they expressly caution you NOT to lift during the 130 MPH esses. It will be a big bill.

Last edited by MadCat360, Thu, 13 Aug 2009 07:32.

SniffPetrol:

BREAKING NEWS: Michael Schumacher has just realised he's a squillionaire who doesn't need this shit.

Quote from carey :

I remember Danica did Formula Ford many moons ago.

Adam Carolla did an interview with her, she did that out of her own pocket apparently, and a little bit of sponsorship from a family friend. It's definitely the place to go for young drivers but the exchange rate will kill most normal people.

Quote from carey :

Well there’s a lot more options in Europe, but in terms of feeder series' they aren’t that cheap:
Formula Palmer Audi; 55k
Formula Ford; 110k+
Formula BMW Europe; 200k (since last year as it used to be 100k for the UK champ‘)
Formula 2; 310k (there's one for you in dollars)
Formula Renault UK; 300k
Formula 3; 500k+
GP3 (from next year); 600k (in euros)
World series by Renault; a million-ish
GP2; 1.3 million (again I think in euros)

Man, if I could do something like FPA in the US for that kind of money...

Still, everything up to GP3 is cheaper than the US. Like I said, Star Mazda is about 400k, Atlantics are about 800k, and Indy Lights are generally 1 million+. One of my karting friends was offered a Formula BMW ride and they wanted 200k as well. Needless to say he didn't have the cash! But Formula BMW in America is really bad... small grids, abysmal TV coverage, and a high cost for what it is.

A little birdie told me the Turbo S's are shipping on Sept 15th for pre-orderers, and Sept 20th for "normal" purchases.

Quote from carey :

I was actually a bit surprised that Adam made the move to the states. Most European drivers give single seaters in Europe a little longer, then do a Mike Conway (who moved to Indycar this year), for the money if it isn't really happening in an F1 feeder series.

I'm puzzled as well. I think it's because European sponsors don't see the US as being a useless market, like US sponsors seem to think about Europe, sadly. Usually drivers do a couple seasons in F3 or one of the Renaults, which is cheaper than Indy Lights/Toyota Atlantics and just as fast, then come over to the US when they land good sponsors. The thing about the US is, it's cheap (relatively) at the top but expensive down low for Formula cars.

Quote from carey :

That kind of is the problem. Either I’m wrong, your wrong, or we are both wrong but we can’t both be right (and really there’s no way to prove it with words).

Well that was cryptic. All you gotta say is how long you race(d)...

Quote from carey :

Of course, I wake up in the zone but I’d elaborate a bit on what you’re saying; you have to try at first otherwise you would never find the limit, but once you have an understanding of the car, track it does become natural and the by-product of this is speed (not the drug).

See now we're getting somewhere. I agree with that. I never found the limit by staying under it (though, it did take me a while to realize this before I shook myself and pushed!)

Quote from tristancliffe :

It was a great psychological lesson, and one I hope to make use of at all subsequent races. Qualifying? Pfff, I'll just cruise around and see where I end up...

lol. I don't have that luxury... I'm competing to win a ride in an F3 car like yours!

Quote from carey :

I agree, but my idea of a wrong line is one where you end up in the kitty litter.

Well then, sorry to say, and I don't want you to take this badly, but it appears to me that you're not that experienced. I got over the "saving my life" phase after my first race weekend, but I had 4 coaches to help me there. "Saving my life" phase being what I call the phase in which the driver has such bad lines and car control that he'll spin off if he makes a mistake. I've found that as I progress as a driver so does my standard. Like I said before, my idea of a bad turn-in or a botched exit is a matter of inches (on a small kart track). I certainly wasn't up to that standard my first day out...

Feel free to prove me wrong about your experience, however.

Quote from carey :

I’ve heard a lot of racers say they actually go quicker, when during a race, they try and back off by not pushing so hard.

Here's one that agrees with that. However, it's simply due to driver psychology. Trying means thinking, thinking means slight loss of control. Ever been in "the zone"? When driving becomes unconscious, you get in the zone, you relax. You're not over-thinking things. My best driving is always done when I'm thinking least about actually driving, in robot mode. I'm thinking about what my opponent is going to do, recalculating points scores, planning my attacks and defenses. And I drive a lot better that way. I've never been a great qualifier because I think too much about going fast.

Quote from dawesdust_12 :

You're awfully good at making yourself seem like an idiot. Are you sure it's not your profession?

It's a joke, dude. Cool down.

Quote from carey :

A commentator on Motorsport UK reckons he's in contact with Adam and that he's winning in the Mazda series. It's funny what you say about Riki, because I agree with you, even though Adam won Formula Renault UK in a thoroughly entertaining way.

He's 2nd in the points, he's got 2 poles and 2 wins, 6 podiums.

http://starmazda.com/results/2009/2009-starmazdapoints.pdf

Conor Daly is 3rd, he won the Skippy F2000 championship last year. He went from 20-something to the podium at Sebring.

Star Mazda's always had good racing, but the VIR weekend was a catastrophe (they air the races delayed). It was a timed race for about 40 minutes -1hour I think, and they only did like 16 laps. There were 4 cautions in the first 10 laps... lots of crashing.

Last edited by MadCat360, Mon, 10 Aug 2009 23:27.

Well since you know a lot more about it than I do, why is a cheap speaker a bad speaker?

Quote from Intrepid :

Well it doesn't cost $28k I can assure you. The entry might be that but you have all the hidden costs like testing, nutritionists, fitness instructors, coaches etc... which no doubt the best drivers will have, and no doubt will most likely take the prize.

Look at tennis. A racket and shoes can cost a maximum of £500 but to get to the top you need to invest around £100-£200k a year to get good.

It's about 19k for just the races but then you add in for Friday practice and any telemetry sessions. It's a school series so you always have access to 4 or more coaches. Then of course crash damage. It used to be 50k but they went to a double-header format. 14 races over 7 weekends.

Quote from carey :

28k isn’t exactly chicken feed (as the mayor of London calls large sums of money).

In the US it is. Most of our racing is done out of our own pockets. Last year a guy I know paid 800,000 out of pocket for an Indy Lights ride. You can't race in the US without having money. Sponsorship is few and far between out here. Most of the sponsorship you see, even in the professional road racing series', is from family backing.

Last edited by MadCat360, Mon, 10 Aug 2009 23:03.

Quote from carey :

That’s a matter of opinion. Usually smoother drivers are faster (unless you’re having to drive beyond the cars capabilities).

It's a matter of fact. A human cannot physically drive to the exact slip angle equilibrium of a tire 100% of the time. The time not spent on the limit is spent over or under it. The more experienced a driver, the less perceptible his mistakes will be. My idea of an "incorrect" corner is a matter of a couple inches, Micheal Shumacher's is a matter of a couple millimeters. And he drives on much bigger tracks than I do.

Quote from Bob Smith :

Clearly. I don't think it's fair to judge a manufacturer from products that far down the budget product range.

Lets not judge my diet from the green crap that comes out, just the normal crap that comes out. That's the only way to judge if my diet is good, by forgetting the green crap.

Quote from carey :

Err... in real life and, other (possibly) more realistic games, you don't have the chance to correct a car if you've approached a corner incorrectly.

Is what you said.

If you don't make mistakes, you're not going very fast.

Quote from carey :

He also said the first time he drove one in the wet he was overtaken by everything. What’s your point, that racing is indeed difficult?

You said the quote above this. Since a kart is one of the most difficult cars to drive, and since I, a mere 2 year noob, can drift it, it is most definitely very possible, if even easy, to correct during a corner.