Are you using a wheel? It looks like you're using a keyboard to me.
Anyway, yeah just calm the corners down a bit. Brake earlier and focus on actually making the corner first. Also, when you make a big mistake like that, don't just keep turning the wheel. If anything, that will just make it worse most of the time. Focus on getting the car slowed down. On the last corner when you turned in at 60 MPH for the hairpin, that was totally savable if you just use the brake a little bit and be smooth with the wheel.
Anyway, yeah just calm the corners down a bit. Brake earlier and focus on actually making the corner first. Also, when you make a big mistake like that, don't just keep turning the wheel. If anything, that will just make it worse most of the time. Focus on getting the car slowed down. On the last corner when you turned in at 60 MPH for the hairpin, that was totally savable if you just use the brake a little bit and be smooth with the wheel.
I'd watch if it was available as an archived download, I doubt I'd watch live (I don't even watch real races live). Honestly what with replays and such it would probably be a lot easier to not have it as a live deal.
I wouldn't mess with setups yet. Get to a point where you're lapping consistently with stock setups and then you can focus on fine-tuning. Not to be kind of a jerk, but how do you expect to be fast with a twitchy setup if you're not fast in a default one?
I guess the biggest thing when learning a new car or track (or game) is be a conservative braker... brake about 20% earlier and a little bit lighter and focus on making the actual corner nice, then start walking your braking point in. You're never gonna perfect a corner if you enter it sideways with locked tires!
I guess the biggest thing when learning a new car or track (or game) is be a conservative braker... brake about 20% earlier and a little bit lighter and focus on making the actual corner nice, then start walking your braking point in. You're never gonna perfect a corner if you enter it sideways with locked tires!
I can't even get to the main menu.
Actually, that's a lie, I CAN, it just takes 4 or 5 tries.
Actually, that's a lie, I CAN, it just takes 4 or 5 tries.
Getting the car into slip angle is a combination of a lot of things. Your speed, your turn in, your smoothness, your braking, you basically have to culminate everything into the perfect corner. It's very hard to do and it takes a lot of practice. The surest way is to use the brake, and dialing in some rear brake bias will help a lot with that (even maybe go so far as to use 90% rear brake bias just to learn how to trail the brakes properly). Once you get the brake rotation down you'll want to focus on the turn-in, apex and speed parts to really get consistent.
Another thing that might help is to use a locked or a very stiff differential, just for training. That will make it a bit looser and maybe a bit easier to get it into slip angle.
I also recommend trying a FWD car because they rotate very well under brakes.
There's a lot of differing theories as to how much slip angle is fastest (we're talking half-degrees here), but honestly that kind of precision is talking about hundredths or even thousandths of seconds and not really of concern to a driver unless he's going for a world record.
As for how much brake to use, that really depends on the car. Something like a FBM with rear brake bias and a nice twitchy setup will probably only need a hair of 40% brake pressure just after turn-in to get it rotated the 2 or 3 degrees it needs to make the tires work, but something like an XFG would need a lot of brakes and a lot of speed and comparatively a lot of rotation (7, 8, meybe even 10 degrees?).
I know, I want to, but I can't imagine having too much fun with it on a keyboard. As soon as my Fanatec wheel gets here in the next couple months I'll pick it up. I used the Xbox wheel with the demo a year or so ago and it was really cool but also very hard to control since that wheel doesn't have force feedback on the PC.
That works for certain people, but I found that exceeding the limit is the best way to learn where it is.
Of the WR replays I've seen, that has not been a really recurring theme. When you start to really get into the physics of slip angle, the bottom line is the least amount of steering input you give the harder the tires work. The fastest way around a track is the way with the least steering. This means that most of the time you use what's called "zero steer", and is exactly what it sounds like - zero steering input, ie, the wheel is perfectly straight. You watch the fastest FBM lappers and you see them doing this every single corner. In simple, racer-preferred terms: go as fast as you can, as hard as you can, without countersteering! Countersteer ("catching" a sliding car) means you are sliding and scrubbing speed. Slide without countersteer is simply slip angle, or a "4-wheel drift".
No one can zero steer an entire track. My first racing coach, professional of 20 years and has driven just about everything, can't even 4-wheel drift an entire circuit. Probably all truly fast drivers are over the limit some of the time during each lap. But, as a result, on average, they are on the limit. If you never cross the limit you will never get there.
Kevin, I suggest you watch the fastest replays, and rather than watching where they turn in or where they brake, just watch the way they drive. Watch their hands and watch the pedals. You'll pick up a lot in terms of what to do to really get the most out of the car.
Last edited by MadCat360, .
Hopefully he died quickly and relatively painlessly. He looked pretty still when they showed the first shot of him in the car.
But what a way to go. The car practically exploded.
But what a way to go. The car practically exploded.
There are too many of these things in the UK, that's why a lot of them are terrible. AMG is setting up a deal with Skip Barber this year in the US, and it's supposed to be like their High Performance School which is actually unadulterated driving. Even the "new driver" program that Barber puts on has you at 11/10ths around the autocross. They used to put brand new teen drivers into 8.3 liter Vipers... but now it's Mazdas.
Then there's the Audi Experience at Infineon which is partnered with Jim Russell. They let you take the R8 up to the limit over the course of the two-day. That's about as close to racing school as you can get without driving the F3 cars at Russell.
Granted all of these options are more expensive (the Audi and Skippy 2-day high-performance stuff is about $2,500).
Bottom line, if you want a glorified test drive, do any experience. If you want an actual expereince, then do a racing school.
Then there's the Audi Experience at Infineon which is partnered with Jim Russell. They let you take the R8 up to the limit over the course of the two-day. That's about as close to racing school as you can get without driving the F3 cars at Russell.
Granted all of these options are more expensive (the Audi and Skippy 2-day high-performance stuff is about $2,500).
Bottom line, if you want a glorified test drive, do any experience. If you want an actual expereince, then do a racing school.
In the game at least, I have to start in neutral because I use a keyboard. So I just tap "gear up" and go into first when the lights turn green (I've been holding max revs in neutral).
"Duck walking" is just a layman term for clutch slip. I guess most people with clutch-equipped wheels start in first, build revs and then slowly back out of the clutch while adding power. This would give you an ideal start in some cars but it also heats the clutch a lot. It's not the best technique for all cars (probably the Formula BMW would be just a straight "dump" of the clutch since it doesn't have a whole lot of power).
Super epic race today. I counted 8 lead changes in 15 laps, between me and my main championship rival. I epic failed but I'll leave the video to tell that story (it's uploading). EDIT it's done now: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWumxHwJCGQ
At the end of the day I got to meet Townsend Bell at a low-key seminar put on by Jim Russell. He had a lot of interesting things to say about sponsorship. Just to refresh your memory he finished 4th at the Indy 500 this year after starting 23rd.
At the end of the day I got to meet Townsend Bell at a low-key seminar put on by Jim Russell. He had a lot of interesting things to say about sponsorship. Just to refresh your memory he finished 4th at the Indy 500 this year after starting 23rd.
Last edited by MadCat360, .
That graph is a bit, um, wrong, really. You should be carrying slight brake pressure past the turn-in point, this is called trail-braking. Cars can slow down and turn at the same time (slightly). Make sure you roll on the gas nice and smooth as you "unwind" the steering. The string theory is a good one. A string is tied from your wheel to your gas pedal. The more you press the gas, the more you have to unwind the wheel. The apex of the corner or "clipping point" should be your cue to start adding power.
The time when you're off the brake/gas should really only last as long as it takes to get from one pedal to another. If you can't add power right then, just hold "neutral throttle" (just enough to maintain speed) after you come off the trail-braking.
The time when you're off the brake/gas should really only last as long as it takes to get from one pedal to another. If you can't add power right then, just hold "neutral throttle" (just enough to maintain speed) after you come off the trail-braking.
First of all, that was a really dirty move on lap 1.
As for your driving, I think the general problem is you haven't figured out that the pedals are your 2nd and 3rd steering wheels. You're trail braking, that's good, but you're not using the brake in such a way that it cures understeer, and you're not recognizing the throttle at all as the 2nd wheel.
I think, in general, you're over-slowing corners by trail braking too heavily. That makes you get on the gas early and as a result you never had a good exit from any important corners. Throttle pick-up should be at or a hair before the apex, not in the middle of the entry phase. Trail the brake nice and light and focus on bringing your cornering speed up. The faster you go, the lighter you need to trail brake to get the car to rotate. Right now, you're driving the car like a kart.
As for your lap(s):
Turn 1: brake later, at the crest of the hill, and really ease the brake on. It's like turn 8 at Laguna. The car is light from negative Gs and you need to be gentle. You'll see the car stop much better. Once it settles make sure to get back to full pressure. You can also carry more speed into turn 1 and go a bit wider on the exit. This will set up turn 2 better.
Turn 2: as I said, you need a better set up here. Come in later at a higher angle with a later apex. You should be nearly perpendicular to the inside of the road after the apex, but not quite. This will set you up much better for turn 3. I don't think you need a later turn in, the extra width from the faster turn 1 should handle that, just focus on getting the car at a nice and late angle.
Turn 3: on your average lap, you were way too early here. The faster the corner, the earlier you need to apex, but this is a 3rd gear corner so it's not that fast - you shouldn't be apexing that early. Most of the time you lifted the throttle while in the corner. You're only doing about 75 here, so the aero isn't working at all. Lift AS you turn in, you'll get a snappier change of direction and you will have a settled race car mid-corner.
Turn 4: use of the previous lines will help you use less curb here. Contrary to what most people do online, you don't need to use any of that curb and you'll probably be more consitent as a result.
Turn 5: you looked okay through here. I'd go a little lighter on the trail brake and focus on more rolling speed. This is one of those corner where you really shouldn't hold the brake too long. Get the slip angle, then let it sit with neutral throttle until the pickup point (probably about 5-10 feet before the apex).
Turn 6: looks good. Could apex a bit later by about a foot or two. That might take away the "oh my God there's a left coming up turn turn turn!" syndrome while not affecting your exit speed by that much (0.2 MPH or so).
Turn 7 (just before pit-in): really bad exits in here. Get all the way out and straddle the rumble strip. You could probably take this in low 4th gear. You'll have plenty of time to get over for 7. Don't be so heavy on the brake initially. You're hurting your turn-in.
Turn 8: Again, don't lift in the corner, lift as you turn in. You'll be much more consistent through there. Use the rumble strip as your timing device for that.
On your last lap you had a couple of instances where you went wide but stayed on the throttle. Adding steering lock and staying on the gas will just make things worse. Maintain the steering angle and come off the gas or rub the brake with your left foot.
Hope that helps.
EDIT: just took a look at your setup, bring that brake balance more towards the rear. Add 1% increments until you slow down. You should be looking at 45/55 distribution with a low-downforce setup. You may need to change the aero balance with it. It will make the car touchier and twitchier, but just add rear brake balance until you feel uncomfortable.
As for your driving, I think the general problem is you haven't figured out that the pedals are your 2nd and 3rd steering wheels. You're trail braking, that's good, but you're not using the brake in such a way that it cures understeer, and you're not recognizing the throttle at all as the 2nd wheel.
I think, in general, you're over-slowing corners by trail braking too heavily. That makes you get on the gas early and as a result you never had a good exit from any important corners. Throttle pick-up should be at or a hair before the apex, not in the middle of the entry phase. Trail the brake nice and light and focus on bringing your cornering speed up. The faster you go, the lighter you need to trail brake to get the car to rotate. Right now, you're driving the car like a kart.
As for your lap(s):
Turn 1: brake later, at the crest of the hill, and really ease the brake on. It's like turn 8 at Laguna. The car is light from negative Gs and you need to be gentle. You'll see the car stop much better. Once it settles make sure to get back to full pressure. You can also carry more speed into turn 1 and go a bit wider on the exit. This will set up turn 2 better.
Turn 2: as I said, you need a better set up here. Come in later at a higher angle with a later apex. You should be nearly perpendicular to the inside of the road after the apex, but not quite. This will set you up much better for turn 3. I don't think you need a later turn in, the extra width from the faster turn 1 should handle that, just focus on getting the car at a nice and late angle.
Turn 3: on your average lap, you were way too early here. The faster the corner, the earlier you need to apex, but this is a 3rd gear corner so it's not that fast - you shouldn't be apexing that early. Most of the time you lifted the throttle while in the corner. You're only doing about 75 here, so the aero isn't working at all. Lift AS you turn in, you'll get a snappier change of direction and you will have a settled race car mid-corner.
Turn 4: use of the previous lines will help you use less curb here. Contrary to what most people do online, you don't need to use any of that curb and you'll probably be more consitent as a result.
Turn 5: you looked okay through here. I'd go a little lighter on the trail brake and focus on more rolling speed. This is one of those corner where you really shouldn't hold the brake too long. Get the slip angle, then let it sit with neutral throttle until the pickup point (probably about 5-10 feet before the apex).
Turn 6: looks good. Could apex a bit later by about a foot or two. That might take away the "oh my God there's a left coming up turn turn turn!" syndrome while not affecting your exit speed by that much (0.2 MPH or so).
Turn 7 (just before pit-in): really bad exits in here. Get all the way out and straddle the rumble strip. You could probably take this in low 4th gear. You'll have plenty of time to get over for 7. Don't be so heavy on the brake initially. You're hurting your turn-in.
Turn 8: Again, don't lift in the corner, lift as you turn in. You'll be much more consistent through there. Use the rumble strip as your timing device for that.
On your last lap you had a couple of instances where you went wide but stayed on the throttle. Adding steering lock and staying on the gas will just make things worse. Maintain the steering angle and come off the gas or rub the brake with your left foot.
Hope that helps.
EDIT: just took a look at your setup, bring that brake balance more towards the rear. Add 1% increments until you slow down. You should be looking at 45/55 distribution with a low-downforce setup. You may need to change the aero balance with it. It will make the car touchier and twitchier, but just add rear brake balance until you feel uncomfortable.
Last edited by MadCat360, .
That's a stance I've always held. I don't like it when modern Christians get all in a fuss because someone might have a different theory to theirs. In my view, that is extremism - the inability to accept or at least humor other people's views.
I'm with you on translation and point of view as well. Forgetting everything about whether the Bible is true or not, whether you read it or not, one needs to keep in mind that it was written a very long time ago, when the world was a very different place and humans acted very differently in many ways. And don't even begin to think that any version of the Bible is a perfect translation... and that's the difference between saying "I want some fruit punch" and "I want a punch".
lol, okay okay, there are no attractive lesbians who's names don't end in .jpeg, .wmv or .mov. :P
Well they've got the "audio playback" thingy on there, they should just make it read it aloud when you post it.
Yup. There's tons of them just like that.
Some of the people you see on Bay Area public transport are just flat out strange. Gays and lesbians being the most common. And if anyone thinks it would be awesome to see lesbians making out on the bus/train, realize that there are no attractive lesbians.
I also hate it when someone dies but you didn't know them at all, and someone you know knew them really well and they tell you about it. I mean, it's tragic, but I don't care really because I had no idea who they were, but I have to fake it anyway and sometimes it just makes me sound like an ass (not that I'm not an ass, just now they know it).
Oh, yeah, definitely. Most of them take so freaking long to respond. I wouldn't use any of them, at least the one's I've seen/tried. I'm sure there are some paddle gearboxes out there that aren't total slugs. I've heard VW's DSG is supposed to be quick.
Most youtube commenters are complete tools. The stuff you see on there is just... ugh.
That's not so bad. If a normal person sits next to me on BART (Bay Area Rapid Transit, in Cali) I'm fine, because most of the time it's a crazy gay guy with a red wig and wearing a too-too and combat boots.
EDIT * that's not the only guy, just an example of the MANY examples lol. Berkeley is frickin' weird.
Alright, so what about drag cars? They use torque converter autos.
I do use an auto every day. Both my parent's Accord and my own 80's Diplomat. The Diplomat is rough, yes, but the Accord is very smooth and is only rough on the kickdown. It's somewhat annoying when you step on it, but other wise it does a fantastic job.
I just think people are a little too much on the "autos are the devil" side and not enough on the "autos are convenient" side.
In a parking lot? That... doesn't seem sane to me. In California we do it on the road (with Californian drivers lol). What year did you do your test?
Oh boy, a self-defense topic on the internet. Here we go. *popcorn*
Yes it's quite scary how global warming has turned into what it is.
However, I don't think there is any harm in believing in a religion. I read the Bible occasionally, but I wouldn't call myself Christian, at least not the Christians I know. I don't force my beliefs on anyone. It's the extreme viewpoints that make a bad name for more rational people. I say more rational, because there really isn't anything rational about religion.
For me, anyway, religion is more about comfort. Whatever helps me sleep at night.
So how does it work in PA?
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG