nah these threads are boring, too much reading. need short and sharp insults, then things need to get personal, bring in some personal info and ur set.
yeh, strengths. its like being slapped every day, then someone comes along with a baseball bat, and saying you should be used to it and it shouldnt hurt.
ur controls do change with heat, its just ur not pushing them hard enough to heat them up to a point where they change
thats great, but since we are talking LFS here, why dont we look at the majority of the cars which feature in LFS, cars which are still running stock seats in the game. since we are comparing car for car, this would mean we'd have to compare them to a car in real life with stock seats.
but really, my point is that unless you are running full race seat and harness, neck stabilizer etc, ur going to move around, and most cars at a beginner level do not have this.
yeh, thats caused from crashing often, hence crashing and dying. so ur scared of fires, but ur not scared of dying on impact?
haha uve never raced a full sized car have you? racing little open wheelers which weigh less than a motorbike is a little different to racing a full size car, u have a lot more weight to throw around and stop, this puts more strain on brakes as well as other things.
you do realise that nervousness is a type of fear, what is the rational reasoning for being nervous, if it's not about fearing something. once you go the adrenaline is pumping big time, your mind sharpens and your more focused, this is the product of adrenaline which is triggered by the fear. you can call it what you want, but that thing that keeps the adrenaline pumping around you is fear, you may not like labeling it as fear, but if you look back to why the body does it, it does it in the case of when the human is faced with danger, the fear of this danger causes the adrenaline release to help them in the situation.
i do know what you mean, when you get to a certain stage you dont seem to notice the fear, but it is still there, you just have the confidence that helps overcome it and put it secondary while you focus on other things, things which help you to go faster.
er... so ur saying u will never crash? id say some of the great drivers that have died in the past racing would have said the same, the difference is they probably werent as ignorant about the sports dangers, because the dangers are real, there is a chance you could crash, injure urself, cripple urself, or even die, that id say is a pretty rational fear.
a lot of these things are things you will pick up pretty quickly on the track anyway. if you notice these things in real life you will learn how to deal with them. cars handle differently, you cannot get in one and expect to do every like you did in the other, you have to learn the different characteristics, let alone changing from a car on a computer screen to a car in real life. the input you get from just a few practice days will teach you more about the feel of a car than anything u will have learnt in LFS, as the input u get from LFS is nowhere near as detailed and extensive, although still very impressive for a computer game.
although i think im now getting away from my point.
and this kids, is what we get down to. unfortunately you are too arrogant and self absorbed that u are neglecting to have a proper argument. ive tried to keep personal attacks out of this, ive been noticing this develop through the thread, but it was mainly this post that really showed it, and more specifically this part. its very hard to have an argument with someone that's more motivated about glorifying themself rather than actually having a proper argument.
haha yeh ur probably right, although it still means the same thing, just worded so it kinda sounds different.
yeh and they both still relate to calling the 2 equal. im not sure what ur trying to say here.
so ur stating the equality of the 2? aka stating that they are equal? er...
to establish an equal relationship.
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
equate
1.to regard, treat, or represent as equivalent: We cannot equate the possession of wealth with goodness.
2.to state the equality of or between; put in the form of an equation: to equate growing prosperity with the physical health of a nation.
3.to reduce to an average; make such correction or allowance in as will reduce to a common standard of comparison.
American Heritage Dictionary
equate
- To make equal or equivalent.
- To reduce to a standard or an average; equalize.
- To consider, treat, or depict as equal or equivalent: equates inexperience with youth.
equate
c.1400, from L. æquatus, pp. of æquare "make even or uniform, make equal," from æquus "level, even, equal." Earliest use in Eng. was of astrological calculation, then "to make equal;" meaning "to regard as equal" is early 19c. Equation is c.1386 in astrology; the mathematical sense is from 1570.
WordNet
equate
1. consider or describe as similar, equal, or analogous; "We can compare the Han dynasty to the Romans"; "You cannot equate success in financial matters with greed"
2. be equivalent or parallel, in mathematics
3. make equal, uniform, corresponding, or matching; "let's equalize the duties among all employees in this office"; "The company matched the discount policy of its competitors" [syn: equal]
i just wanted to be clear on that point.
i didnt call u ignorant unless you meant to call the 2 equal, if you beleive the 2 are equal then i beleive that is ignorant.
ok.
not exactly saying it, but he is inferring it.
not stating it, asking it, which i was happy to reply to.
stating it
i drift and grip, grip not competitively as there is no real division for my car. drift i will be competing in the state competition this year if all goes well, but i dont really see the relevance of whether im competing or not, i have a decent grip of what both real life and LFS are like, so it helps me form an opinion on the subject.
Last edited by nisskid, .
haha yeh, i dont expect to be having a proper mature conversation with him any time soon.
oh sorry, i wasnt saying thats the only reason, id say it would have more to do with simply going as far as they can in the sport and having different priorities, im just saying that sometimes a lot of the buzz can be lost over time and it loses the excitement it once had.
was just a side point i was making about how confidence affects the mentality.
LFS and real life arnt equal, if you think they are you are ignorant (but i dont think thats what u were saying)
this "F3 driver" seems to be missing the point of my posts, i dont think his opinion varies too far from mine if he left the immaturity at the door and actually read my posts. i think we both beleive that LFS can help with understanding the physics of a car, and that in some circumstances it could even help a driver out. i think the issue is he was too content on trying to pull apart technicalities in my argument, that he actually missed the whole point of what i was trying to say.
the main difference in our arguments is that i dont beleive the average LFS player can just get into a car and suddenly be a very competitive driver, i think even he conceded they would need a few track days before they would even be competent.
i can see im probably putting across the unpopular opinion here as people want to beleive that all their time playing a game has actually equated to making them a good real life driver, but i gotta be honest here, u can get into all the BS u want, but u wont be a good driver in real life until ur out on the track practicing, until then its just theory, a theory which is severely flawed.
that part about nintendo wii, thats a different case, thats just simply building up and hand-eye coordination, its been known for years that playing games will help with that. but thats not the same, not even close.
once again, confidence. unfortunately confidence can work against a lot of drivers, this overcoming of fear can often take away a lot of the appeal of the sport as it doesnt give them the same buzz.
yep, i agree, it definately gives u a good understanding of the car's physics, i just think by the time you have got to a competant level in the sport your on track experience may have overriden this as even just a few practice days will teach you so much more about a car's physics than years and years of playing LFS. the amount of input u get from driving a real car gives u a lot more detail of the car's physics.
proof?
this is nice to read, but its far from proof, there are plenty of kids that just quite simply "get it", ones without previous driving or gaming experience, straight into a car and onto the track, and are very competent straight away.
this is made from a mixture of things, most of which im sure most people dont really know. there may have been a few elements from LFS that helped him out, i wouldnt rule it out, but this doesnt explain how the rest of the kids who share this talent who have never played a racing simulator.
theres always someone who freakishly exceeds in something without any real explanation, im more focused on the average person. id like to see a test done, people who play LFS and people who dont, first time on track, average the times, i reckon overall the LFS drivers may a bit quicker, it's hard to say, they might be equal, i personally think it would come down to other factors contributing the time before whether they have played LFS or not does.
i think it goes back to, you never lose fear, you just overcome it with confidence, confidence as i mentioned earlier is very important, but its important to have in doses, too much confidence and you will bite off more than you can chew, too little confidence and you will be restricted even if you have the skill to go further.
id say if the first time Tristan stepped into one of these machines and wasnt even slightly overcome with a little bit of fear, then he must have been extremely overconfident, something which as ive mentioned before, can be very dangerous.
id be interested in knowing how he got into the sport though, what was his first experience, was he dumped straight into these cars, or did he start off in karts etc.
no, ur not getting it, im targeting the people that say they will be good drivers and instantly be able to get good times in real life on their first day out just because they have played LFS. this is the same as saying that LFS is so closely related with real life that u can simply get up from ur computer, get in a race car and transfer ur skills from LFS straight to real life.
its like saying someone doesnt shit, its inbuilt to the human gene to fear, it helps with driving, if he doesnt experience fear then something is defected in him, not having fear will hinder his performance.
i dont doubt it, i think the post u are referring to, is the one about fear. im not saying he doesnt race, but i think it's naive of him to think he doesnt suffer from fear, thats the kind of statement id expect from a 15 year old.
shifting my position? no. elaborating on it? yes.
i have never criticized LFS so much, i believe it is a great simulator, one of if not the best, closest you can get to driving through a video game. but thats just it, its just a video game, it cannot properly simulate all aspects of real life driving, it can only touch on a few. obviously as you add on things like steering wheels etc it helps with some of those aspects, as well as advancing the game to feature things like clutch fade, brake fade, tyre wear, things that you deal with during racing, but it still cant simulate some of the most important things, things which will dramatically affect your driving in real life. once again, things like sense of speed, forces, safety etc etc.
lol u cannot be serious can u? brakes overheat, clutches overheat, this affects both the biting surface (clutch pads, brake pads) as well as the fluid, these factors change the biting point, pedal slack, and braking/clutch force. this is just one of the many little issues u face on the track and a good driver is able to overcome.
dont suffer fear? um, thats not good, fear is what makes driving so fun. fear causes a natural reaction in ur body with adrenaline and all those lovely drugs which make you feel good inside as well as sharpening your mind and extra physical strength, this is why you race your car at high speeds and not play golf instead.
i guarentee you the top level drivers have fear, everyone has fear, if you dont you have a defect, simple as that, fear is built into the human genes to help, not hinder. the difference is the top level drivers have the confidence to counteract the fear, having over confidence as an inexperienced driver is not safe, they are still not really experienced enough to be driving with massive confidence, it can often lead to crashes, going in harder but not really having the skill to deal with the extra speed etc.
this is why it is normal to lack confidence, as well as beneficial, it allows you to slowly get used to the track and build up skill and familiarity with driving at the same time as you build up ur confidence. the only thing that can really change this is simply build up ur confidence at the same time as you build up your skill.
not when u are learning, and u honestly think daily driving see's anywhere near the forces of at the track? lol
im talking about learning here, u dont get to step straight into a perfectly setup car. also even in a race car you will have changes in controls with heat etc, as well as a gear box which isnt as simple as just clicking a plastic knob up into place.
once again, not everyone can step into a full race car, hell stepping into a full race car straight out would probably be more daunting. as i mentioned it isnt such an issue with a full race seat and harness, but most beginners start off with less substantial setups without full blow racing seats and harnesses. also quite simply the G-forces are very disorientating even if your not being thrown around in ur seat.
lol, no.
u cannot be serious can u? of course u dont want to crash in LFS, but its a bit different when the difference is possible death and simply having to restart the race. i guarentee you when people are learning LFS they have a lot more crashes than they would if they were on a track in real life.
it's quite simple really, im talking about when your learning to drive, the statements ive been targeting have been, "im good at LFS and i could step straight into a car and transfer my skills from LFS to real life". my point is that when you are learning, you are overcome by so many different things, doing 150kmh's around a sweeping corner is a lot more ****ing scarey than u think, let alone doing upwards of 200. the sense of speed, the forces pushing on ur body, the reality that if u hit something hard enough u could die, or at least **** ur car up pretty bad, this is when shit gets real, this is when you need to build up confidence.
after a while these things become secondary and you can start focusing on pulling down ur times, and i think maybe at a level where you can simply concentrate on ur lines, braking etc, LFS might be able to help you discover which ways you find faster around a corner and maybe a slightly advanced understanding for the physics of a car and even then, by the time you have learnt to get comfortable in a car, you have probably developed an understanding that has surpassed what you have learnt in LFS.
but once again, if you want to be a good driver in real life, go out to a real track and start practicing, no point sitting on ur arse in front of a computer telling ur friends ur better than schumacher because u can pull a good time around blackwood.
no. i dont know how i can make it any more clear, so im going to just say, unless you have done both i dont see how u can make a statement like this without even really knowing what both are like.
it is a good simulator, but theres only a limit to how much a computer game can simulate, it cannot simulate most of what makes driving driving, it can only really simulate the physics of a car. i explained this in the first post, so maybe have another read of that.
basically, when you first learn to drive, whether it be grip or drift, you are overcome by many factors that u face on the track, as i mentioned before, speed, forces and safety are probably the most significant part, but theres also factors such as the controls, generally when u press something in LFS it will work, as well as having all the controls nicely setup where u want them etc. in real life its a lot different, you have brake variances with heat, clutch variances, steering wheel which carries massive force and will go all over the place with minor movement in the track, then having to change gears with a gearbox that sometimes just doesnt want to go into gear. then doing all this you have to fight the forces that will push you around in your seat (unless you have a full racing seat) meaning you will have to use elbows, knees, what ever u have free to support urself.
i could seriously write pages on all the different factors, but my point here is that these are what you have to overcome before you can even think about factors that are covered in LFS.
i guess the main issue is it's just so hard to relate the 2 when one is missing such major factors, its hard to think back and use any skills built up from a game when it just feels so different when your on the track and you have so much more to occupy ur mind.
yeh i was thinking about just copying and pasting since id only written an identical post on ns yesterday. i saw this thread and im like fark i was only just talking about this.
oh and dw, i wasnt trying to be hostile on ns, just trying to explain my personal opinion on it, can sometimes come across as a bit heated, but yeh.
no.
kids these days are getting into motorsport younger and younger these days, i think it depends on the entry level though, a lot are in karts racing around tracks which i think its great to see, they are there to race and have a good time. i think the issue is the others that arnt getting involved for the right reasons, its becoming less about the sport and more about the culture, not to say i dont like a lot of the culture surrounded by motorsports, but i think when it becomes more about the culture than the sport itself questions need to be asked.
i call it the fast and the furious generation, but its not just people that watch the movie, its just the general culture is portrays in the movies. it's appealing to the youth, it makes them want to get involved, hence getting involved for the wrong reasons. drift has been one that has been hard hit by this, but its seen throughout all motorsports.
basically what im trying to say is due to this increase in these sorts of people, i think this extra immaturity has been introduced to the game. it gets pretty annoying, but i cant really see anything changing it any time soon.
i was only recently trying to explain this, the physics of a car in LFS may resemble real life driving, but it doesnt mean its "like" real life. i know it sounds stupid, but physics is only one part of driving in real life.
you have to consider that regardless of steering wheels or whatever you can adapt to LFS, its nothing like real life. real life, you have to contend with being pushed around in your chair, the genuine reality of speed and safety (most important part), g-forces, pedal forces, steering wheel forces, damaging your car. these are the things that properly involve you in driving, this is what differentiates having a bit of fun on the computer and having adrenaline rushes that will hold you alert through a day without sleep.
the computer just doesnt properly relate the speed, forces and safety issues that face you on the track, it's easy to be confident and push your car in a game when the worst that could come from it is to have to reset the game. confidence is a key part of any motorsport, and its not something that can be gained lightly when you have to deal with the real life issues faced on the track.
saying that, if you want to just talk about physics, then yes, personally i think LFS is very realistic. its hard to properly compare the game to real life, as like i said before, you 2 experiences are just totally different, and trying to focus on how similar one part is when your missing the other crucial parts is hard.
fortunately, recently i bought a handy little suction cup mount which meant i was able to capture some in car footage of my drifting at a local track here, and i compared it LFS footage from a similar view. if you look at the steering movements you can see a lot of similarities, look at the timing of the steering adjustments etc. the only real difference is the steering return, the current adjustments dont allow me to let go of the wheel in LFS to let it fling back quickly on transitions like i do in real life, although i think the introduction of a G25 should help this.
Me in real life:
(wait till at least around the middle)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23WzkTHybJE
Me in LFS
(wait for the in car, unfortunately this is all ive got up on YT in the way of LFS, ill chuck up something that demonstrates the physics better another time, but for now this will do. focus on the steering wheel movements, not the arm movements)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjz6aBkTWGE
holy shit!
damn all these saturday comps anyway, for me to enter them id have to get up on sunday morning here in Aus, me + saturday nights + sunday mornings = disaster.
damn all these saturday comps anyway, for me to enter them id have to get up on sunday morning here in Aus, me + saturday nights + sunday mornings = disaster.
no offense, but playing LFS is a waste of saturday night regardless of how good the comp was.
dont worry, hes an idiot haha
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG