That means 0 people have entered. There's times when a good amount of people enter the races - but most of the time they're empty. The oval races may also be more popular right now. Also, it wont allow you to select or join a session if you're currently in one. Make sure you "Withdraw - and confirm the withdraw" if you leave a session early.

60 people registered for the next session in ~15 minutes I'm one of them. Hopefully my 2nd race isn't as bad as my first.

Last edited by Technique, Thu 26 Jun 2008, 20:46.

I have a different technique than some people. I've seen many people stay in 4th gear thoughout most of the track but I'm in and out of 3rd and 4th throughout the track.

T1) I stay to the inside and get the outside tire on the concrete patch - full throttle to the exit just touching the curb occasionally.
T3) I suck at - I go fairly slow through the inside so I can get a good line for the next series of turns which are more important.
T4) No braking - full throttle. Outside tire on concrete. It's important to unwind the wheel using the entire track.
T5) I hit 4th gear usually a bit before the bottom of the hill. Heal-toe to 3rd but I just tap the brakes to rotate the car a bit then full throttle up the hill.
T6) I hit 4th a bit before and do the same deal as T5. Downshift to 3rd and just barely tap the brakes.
T7) I hit 4th again before the turn. I don't brake, I just lift slightly, dive to the inside, and get back full throttle. I come as close to the inside curb as possible (hitting it ocassionally!) then of course unwind the wheel to the exit.

Some people stay in 4th gear in turns 5 and 6 and run about the same times.

Quote from ajp71 :

I've just tried qualifying in the Solstice, got it into the 6s and can see where the time can be made up, beginning to like the challenge of driving it on the limit a bit more though. What is really annoying me is that the brakes (when they're not jammed on) are ridiculously strong and I'm using the 911 wheel pedals which have short travel, I'm routinely struggling not to lock up at the end of the straight and can't see anyway to reduce there strength.

Brakes feel very good to me - if anything a bit too weak I'm using very stiff CST pedals though. I may have to recalibrate them so that I only use something like 85% of the travel - I really have to step on the brakes forcefully to lock them up.

Quote from psy00 :

i don't like the pay per month system's so iracing is a no go for me ... but i'd pay to have cars and tracks packs i also like that lfs doesn't require high end machine and i can play it with my athlonxp , i think the dev team will find a way to go forward , i read too many posts people complaing about the pace of development and i remember the reason Eric don't write to the forums..... i hope scawen and victor ignore them and be active like they do now

I have an Athlon 3400+ and a 6800GT and it runs perfectly smooth at 1600x1200. I haven't noticed any framerate issues (I think I'm running ~50FPS but it feels like 70-80 to be honest). I also have mainly be racing at one track with little to no cars on the track so maybe I'll have an issue with a full grid. High end machines these days are cheap though... compared to my last build.

Quote from thisnameistaken :

First up: Is everybody driving the "Rookie" Solstice at Lime Rock? And if so, are you changing the setup at all? I can't get better than a 1:06.9 around there and the guys in my race last night were doing 1:04s. Is the "Other" Solstice a different car or do I just suck at this?

Keep practicing I guess. I was able to run 1:05.6 on my 2nd clean lap - my first 10 were all off track With a few more practice sessions I could run low-mid 1:04's but I was still a little out of control. Now I'm much more controlled and can run 1:04's nearly every lap with an occasional 1:03.8x.

If you're running 1:06's your probably not pushing it hard enough. Make sure your using the concrete patches since they provide more grip.

I'm glad my posts bring out such anger! :munching_

In my opinion...

iRacing is a better simulation. LFS is a better game.

It's only my second day playing iRacing, but due to the structure it's a bit difficult to actually get into a race. For instance, I wanted to play during my lunch hour, but my only choices were a race at 11am or at 1pm. So I've mainly been doing practice sessions. You click one of the many practice time slots (all of which always have 0 entrants) and hope people join in. 1 or 2 usually join (during peak hours you may get 7 or 8) and you basically hotlap by yourself for 30 minutes. My only race thus far was a complete disaster so that really hasn't helped my opinion of the game Once I get some real good races in I my change my opinion. But I can say for certain LFS does have HUGE value considering what you get for the price.

Quote from ajp71 :

I don't understand what it is with people starting, this isn't a difficult car to start, lots of revs and dump the clutch will see you safely off the line and you can't stall it, yet people still seem to just sit there, in the second race I did I drove straight into the back of the car in front of me on the grid and in the first I managed to bring my car to a complete stop whilst the Sunday drivers in front of me got going.



It still has no place in a sim.

Good I'm not alone. Right now I'm glad the reset is in, because the damage is really not realistic. At the start of my first and only race, I clipped the left rear bumper of the guy in front of me with the front right side of my bumper (trying to avoid him). It was like a 10 mph impact yet after the contact I had to hold the steering wheel 45 degrees to the left to go straight.

That's awesome PMD

P.S. Thanks for the invite I owe you.

So I finally did a race. Did I mention in my previous post how I don't like losing? I was also nervous about collecting incident points.

66 drivers registered for the 1am race. I was split into a grid with ~12 drivers. In the warmup I spun, but luckily no one was around. I collected 3 incident points for off track and losing control. Oh well. That's all I planned on collecting.

Then, the race. I started in the 2nd or 3rd row. The start lights appeared on the screen. I held my revs near 5000rpm ready to launch. I was determined to finish well. The green flag waved, I floor it, and BAM smack right into the guy in front of me. With all the thoughts going through my head, I wasn't expecting the guy in front to just sit there when the green waved. So, 4 incident points for me since I caused the contact. That driver immediately reset, so I parked on the track and reset. I'm now in last place. In a rush to catch up with everyone I violated the pit lane blend line while exiting and was black flagged. Oh f***. Coming in to serve my black flag I almost missed the pits and came in too hot crossing over the pit entrance blend line. So I had to serve 2 penalties and sit in pit lane for ~30 seconds. I made sure I exited fine after the penalties (!). Out of pit lane and into T1... someone gets wobbly then loses it right in front of me. I had no where to go (and no time to react) and slammed into him. Another 4 incident points. I drove several clean laps but I kept thinking about all this crap that happened, lost focus and got 2 wheels in the grass sending me out of control. Finally, I just retired. Great way to start my iRacing career!

Adding insult to injury.... one of the few laps I was able to put in was the fastest lap that race @ 01:04.204. I could have had atleast a top 3 in my first race... asdfoiasdifoiasdfioaiosdfiasdfoioiasdf

Last edited by Technique, Thu 26 Jun 2008, 05:34.

Quote from DarrenMarsh :

I just looked at the results of that race you were in and there was a guy who got 28 incident points in 13 laps. That's the kind of guy I'm talking about

The flipside though, is that if you can race and finish in the top 1/2 of the order your iRating will go up which will stop you from being gridded with those guys.

pfft.. I've gotten 31 in 10 laps. In practice that is I should probably try not to drive like a madman. It's fun though.

Well, I just got through playing a couple of hours of iRacing. Here's some completely random thoughts...

First, I believe I hold the current world record for incident points: 90+ over my last 3 practices in the Solstice @ Limerock (good thing practices don't count!). As I got more comfortable with the car and track I guess I enjoyed pushing it a bit too much

Anyway, the game is amazing! I really wish it wasn't because I'm an LFS fanboy at heart I've only driven the Rookie Solstice so far. You can really feel the suspension and the weight of the car when you're driving this thing. Everything just feels very realistic. A friend watching me drive stated that "[LFS] looks very cartoony in comparison" and sadly I have to agree with him. Physics-wise it seems quite similar to LFS. The solstice handles much like an XRG but with more mass and a softer suspension than most race prepared XRG setups. The solstice is quite controllable when it gets sideways (which I happen to do frequently in T1 at limerock). The only issue I'm having is handling the extra degrees of rotation when the car rotates enough where I need to cross my hands over (I'm using 900). But I have the same problem in RL so it's good practice

I've only encountered minor issues thus far.
1) Updating failed the first time
2) The wheel configuration GUI crashed on me
3) In a practice session I received incident points for car to car contact but I never actually made contact with the car. It was a very dangerous pass and I must have missed the car by a matter of inches. Since I was going about twice as fast if I made any sort of contact it would have sent both of us spinning out of control. I didn't hear any collision noise nor did I see his car move at all in my rear view mirror.

LFS does have some strong points though. It's definitely more approachable. I haven't even joined a race yet in iRacing due to the fact that every race is being scored. I don't just play for fun, I'm usually hardcore when it comes to competing in official events. I don't like to lose Since every race in iRacing is like a league race I feel like I have to keep preparing offline or in a practice sessions until I know I have a good shot at winning. It's kind of like people that are heavily into LFS leagues. You rarely see them online in public servers because they spend all of their time preparing for the next race

Anyway, back to iRacing!

Quote from mrodgers :

Gimpster, you must have missed my post.

Take out the max brake force and put it at a predefined setting. At what setting are you going to put it at? With an FZR, I would have no brakes if I had the squashball mod done in my pedals as I sometimes do if you put it at the normally seen 1600-1900. Predefine it to what I would use with the squashball mod and you will lock your brakes up by breathing on the pedal with the brake force at around 2900 (guessing, I haven't had the squashball in for quite some time.)

It's just not as simple as "you have an analog controller thus you should use pedal modulation" as all controllers are different and folks also mod theirs to be very different.

Isn't that what the adjusting the "center" is for?

It's not really LFS that is at fault for poor driving. It's often a mixed bag when I race as well. I think it has alot to do with LFS being accessible to such a wide range of people - some not as serious as others and many who have never been behind the wheel of a car. For the LFS devs to attempt to make up for the lack of dedication of the LFS community, they'd have to enforce some sort of structure into the game.

What's funny about iRacing is that everyone makes such a big deal about it having "real cars" yet everyone raves about the skip barber racing school car because it's fun to drive. Most people really dislike the Solstice (the only real road car in the game) and don't really care much about the Formula Mazda. The skip barber car is about as real to me as an ice cream truck. Yes they exist - just like LFS's MRT. But when I think of driving real cars, it's not the first thing that comes to mind. It isn't really any more real, to me, than the fake formula cars in LFS.

Nice ride gimpster. NB wheels look nice on an NA. Wish I still kept mine....

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad there's the mouse option. And I don't see any advantage to using it over a wheel. From the dev's perspective, it would be in their best interests to leave it as is. More people that can play the game = more money.

Quote from jonny__27 :

Boris Lozac you're missing a point in all this. Most mouse users use the mouse because they have to, not because they choose. And i assure you the "i'm poor i can't buy a wheel" is no bull*hit, not everyone can afford a gaming accessory when they have more important things to spend the money on, like paying the bills.

U.S is a bit different than Portugal I'm sure, but over here, if you have time to play games (time is money) and money to spend on an internet connection, then you can afford a cheap wheel. The used ebay wheel I posted earlier cost less than half a day's work at McDonalds... I could get a job at McD's, work one day, quit, and have enough cash to get a used wheel and an S2 license.... I guess I'm glad I live in the US!

Not sure if you can compare a "digital speedometer" to a script written to perform artificially unrealistic shifts. I consider any such script to be a cheat - whether its legal in the devs minds or not. That's just my opinion. I don't think there's any way to prove that someone is using a script. Even if button clutch was removed, it seems just as easy to write a script to use axis clutch (?).

Back to the mouse issue...
I think it all comes down to practice. If you practice with mouse until you've achieved near perfection you're always going to be faster with mouse unless you put in the same effort with a wheel. The fact that mouse users can achieve equal or better times without being able to trail brake, left foot brake, heal-toe, etc. makes the sim look a bit silly to be honest

I'd be interested in a spec xrg / spec rac league if there was enough interest (and if iRacing doesn't suck me in - yet to be determined...).

How many wheels do you plan on purchasing!?

Not familiar with online stores for Argentina but I found this in 5 minutes:

http://articulo.mercadolibre.c ... l-f1-pc-ps2-vibration-_JM

bbman, I made a bad analogy I guess I think we can both agree used wheels are affordable. Anyone "should" be able to afford them. I'm not for removing mouse as an option though. I don't think it offers any advantage with steering. Anyone who needs to use opposite lock frequently probably isn't driving correctly Also, anything that enables more users to try out LFS without a owning a wheel is a good thing!

I think the issue is with braking. Anyone who sets up their car so they can achieve max braking force without locking the wheels is probably at an advantage. A wheel user can do this as well - but mouse users have to (I think anyway).

Quote from bbman :

Considering a cheap caravan costs less than some saloons, your comparison says nothing at all...

Not sure I understand you post (especially since I don't recall what a caravan translates to in american vehicles... ...)

http://cgi.ebay.com/Microsoft- ... ZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Microsoft Sidewinder:
Current price: $9
Buy it now: $16
Shipping: $13

Sidewinder is perfectly adequate - I was using it in January. It certainly offers more control than keyboard or mouse both in steering and throttle/brake control. I guess I don't really understand your post.

Quote from ATC Quicksilver :

Yes he is slower because he has played with a mouse so much that its become second nature to him. I know his racing history, and I still say things like that, because it makes no difference. I don't want LFS to become a game where the haves get a huge advantage, and the have nots are stuck at the back, just because they can't afford the best equipment, thats what real motorsport is like, and its an aspect that shouldn't be simulated in my opinion.

Playing devils advocate here. LFS also shouldn't be a game where the haves are at a disadvantage and the have nots are at an advantage Considering a usable wheel costs less than some mice, it's not exactly a valid comparison to real racing where it may cost thousands or tens of thousands of dollars at the amateur level to have the best equipment. Looking at the hotlap chart for road cars, nearly all of the fastest laps are produced with wheel/button clutch or mouse (I'm looking at blackwood here).

Before S1 I used mouse. I didn't have a wheel at the time. Sadly I was much faster in the XRG at blackwood back then compared to now. Of course back then everyone had thousands of laps around blackwood in XFG/XRG so everyone was fast.

I bought an expensive wheel at one point, used it once, and never used it again. I was immediately much slower and didn't want to try to adapt to it.

Since you don't have to worry about "how much" brakes and throttle to apply, you can easily focus on your line and drive really consistently - maxing out the capabilities of your input device.

Of course when S1 came around I couldn't drive anything with the mouse (props out to anyone that can control a high power lightweight car with the mouse/kb).

Wheels/pedals allow an excellent driver to be faster in those lowered powered cars than a very good mouse user, but I suspect it also allows an average driver to be slower than an mouse user with equivalent skills. They may run the exact same lines but the mouse user will have consistency in braking.

Skipping gears is probably much faster with the right driver. You can focus on applying the perfect amount of braking. Rev-matching is also probably more difficult as well.

I prefer gearing down one at a time, maybe just because I'm used to it and I find skipping gears a bit awkward. It's also more fun But unless you have an amazing technique, you will probably be losing time braking. I don't know about you guys, but if you were to analyze my braking, you wouldn't see a constant optimal brake pressure applied - there would be points where it's uneven when I'm blipping the throttle. Even if it's minute, I'm losing time here.

In LFS, I think any driver using either technique will probably be slower than some joe schmoe using paddles and auto-clutch that can easily focus on and consistently apply the optimal brake pressure.