Another observation on realism: I have to do U-turn maneuvers in limited space on road. Either I do it in 3 steps (left turn upto left kerb, backpedal right to kerb, forward left and leave the place), or I do it using the junctions with service driveways:


I checked if Blackwood is a good place to try these maneuvers, but the roads there are just very large.



Meanwhile, most European roads/streets have lanes up to 3.5 metres.

European Roads Safety Observatory 2018 document:

Quote :

Lane widthshould be examined in relation to the expected operational speedas well as the percentage of heavy vehicles. Very narrow lanes cause problemsby not providing adequate lateral clearance, especially as far as heavy vehicles are concerned. In general, increasing lane width leadsto improved road safety, but very wide lanes may result toexcessivespeeds and encourage unsafe overtaking manoeuvres. A lane width of 3,50m is considered typical in most countries and research indicates that accident rates seem to reduce for lane widths of 3,50m to 3,70m (ERSF,1996;Proctor et al., 2015;Pilot4Safety 2012).

The narrowest one I found in Blackwood is 4 m. In South City, lanes are just at the maximum allowed, 3.75 m.

Quote from booplesnoot :

This is not accurate at all. The best way to try and use this method would be car jacked up and wheel off TBH. Doing this is an at best guess and hardly accurate.

I know, but that's all I have, and this is driving school car. Anyone having a jack is welcome to do that.

Checked Renault Logan inside and outside angles.
The protractor is again slightly misaligned, opposite of the initial measurement, now it reduces the angle, and I got around ~36° inside (I saw 40° the previous time) and ~30° on the outside.



Inside (left front)


Outside (right front)

Flotch: I did not measure the outer wheel angle, but I can check that. Indeed the outer wheel should turn less than the inner one. Then the question is what the setting in LFS relates to.

So far, here's the table. I suppose the turning circle is too big, because the abovementioned formula considers the wheels only, while the listed diameter includes overhangs.



* front track

Lada Granta is unlisted in international sources, and Russian credible sources miss this spec.

Turning circle sources:
https://www.cars-data.com/en/skoda-octavia/turning-circle
https://www.cars-data.com/en/kia-soul/turning-circle

Measured another car, Lada Granta 2018. It's similar to Logan. The angle seems to be 38° both by eye sight with protractor, and with InkScape line rotation.

Checked Kia Soul (2013 model).

The protractor is misaligned with the camera, but I did check it in InkScape: it's 40°.

I took an angle ruler to the autodrome today, and measured the angles. I checked carefully that I matched the plane of the wheel and of the side wall vertically. The angles seem to be around 40 degrees.

The first car is Skoda Octavia 2, it's angle is about 40 degrees (steered to the lock, I checked).

The Logan seems to have narrower angle, on the photo is below. Seems it's 40 degrees too.

If I did make a mistake in measurements (misaligned), the angles should be at least 36 deg.


Surprisingly, the Octavia that looks like a seriuos and large car is actually just 20 cm longer than the simple-n-sturdy Logan, and has a shorter wheelbase.

Last edited by detail, Thu 22 Apr 2021, 04:58.

Quote from bobloblaw :

Are you using a comparable setup to a road going car? In LFS I used:

open differential
parallel steer 0%
+.1 rear toe in
no rear anti-roll bar

and could reverse in normally, as long as I kept the speed low enough.

I had open differential, parallel steer 0%, 0 toe-in both on front and rear wheels. Maybe the antirollbar was the cause, I'll check as well.

Last edited by detail, Tue 20 Apr 2021, 11:40.

Quote from Scawen :

Either:
1) Actual turn angle of the front wheels.
Or:
2) Wheelbase of the car and turning circle (and car width if available)

Tomorrow, I'll take a tape measure, plus angle ruler, and check both turn radius/diameter, and wheels angle.

As far as the area is concerned, today I took a tape ruler and measured the area dimensions. Apparently, I took the fresh asphalt for the entire area, and made it much narrower.

Here are the real dimensions and them in QGIS: (edit: probably, the box size should be ~520, not 500)




And it was no problem to backpedal into the box in LFS as well. My apologies. But I'll check the actual steering angle on the Logan.

Last edited by detail, Tue 20 Apr 2021, 11:23.

I tried replicating real-life driving school excercises in LFS, and there are couple of issues:

* in real life you can gently leave the clutch over 5 seconds, and get the car rolling and drive without touching the throttle. I replicated the gear ratios (taking into account the top power revs and wheel size), and still could did not make it in LFS.

* XFG steering angle is lower that in comparable cars. They feel much less manueverable than IRL or RWD cars. My calculations show it should be 35-36 degrees (more below).

I failed to reproduce the backpedal-into-garage excercise. Here's the area where we excercised and how the car should go (backwards):



My measurements in QGIS.


I suppose, the dimensions are round, so the area is 5 by 8 m, and the box is 5.5 by 3.

I reproduced it in LFS layout (see in the replays below), and tested it with a 1080-deg wheel and 3-pedal set. The car won't fit in the "garage" if you drive normally. It only fits if I put it forward as much as possible, and turn the wheel to the maximum while still standing. Then XFG does get into the box. In real life you get it going and then turn the wheel to the limit, which takes a couple of seconds.

Replays: UF1, XFG, XFG with mouse for max steering, XRG.

It seems to me the angle of 30° is too low. My calculations show it must have 35..36°.

In this Stackoverflow thread, a simple formula is proposed:

steering angle = atan(wheelbase / (turning circle radius - car width)) (I suppose it's track width.)

Renault Logan 2005 that I drive:
* turning circle diameter 10500 (radius 5250)
* track width: 1480
* body width: 1740
* wheelbase: 2630

Simple Python code:

So the angle is between 35 and 37 degrees.

Why I bother telling this? Driving forward and changing gears is simple. Backpedaling + steering is hard, because you need to watch many things at once and have your feet act independently from hands. So any extra practice in LFS is very valuable. I can dispense with current cars and just expand the area in LFS a bit and make it work, but it would be nice to have things a bit more realistic.

Last edited by detail, Mon 19 Apr 2021, 18:06.

Well, what you do is just a workaround.
You don't switch to English in real life to say "Edinburgh" in the native pronunciation, nor write it exactly the same way in newspaper. It will be inconsistent to read or hear if you leave places names in their native spelling or pronunciation. This way you make Polish speakers break the reading model to make an exception and to remember that "Blackwood" reads as Polish "Blekwud", or "South City Chicane" is "Saut siti szikejn", (and when pronounced to the other person, that one has to reverse-engineer your English pronunciation. Just an example, as a programmer I heard dozen of ways to say "this" in the language that hasn't got the [th] sound)

Last edited by detail, Fri 29 Apr 2011, 14:54.

Thanks!
Scawen, can we have the "X" and "Y" of open configs translateable, please? When I look at the track selection screen, it just looks weird:

Quote :

Blackwood
X Гран-При Y
X Ралликросс Y

The same weird to me as to you I guess. Also, any chance the tracks names being translateable, so that we could transcribe them and make track names consistent? Again, "Fern Bay Зелёная" looks strange.

Quote from Scawen :

It's the smoothing time applied when you move the camera. So as you rotate or move, it's not instantly there, it's softened (smoothed) a bit, with this time delay.

Errr... I mean, it's a smooth camera position transition, or image transition? (when at some point you see 2 semi-transparent images together)

I tried the test patch, but I have a lightweight laptop and kinda feel having grown out of playing.

Thanks for the explanations,

and Opera keeps crashing. It's 11.10, revision 2092, Linux i686 (32 bit), 2.6.32-31-generic.

I wish I had time and devotion to rewrite the translation tool with Datatables & jQuery.

Last edited by detail, Thu 28 Apr 2011, 19:34.

Save whole translation buttons make the browser (Opera 11) load CPU without sending anything.

Hi,
I want to clarify the context of some strings:

3h_vwsmooth View smoothing %.1f s :
does this smooth camera position when it flies, or its POV (orientation) when it looks at cars?

3h_trantime Transition time
is it a transition between points or a smooth TV-like gradual switch between views?

3h_nocarsvw no cars in view
Does this mean no cars in field of view or what?

3h_no_v_x_s, 3h_sh_nm_st, 3h_no_car_f, 3h_clicktof,
these are too short for me!

Quote from Klutch :

errr. what?
You haven't even read the whole situation before you decided to stick your nose in and start claiming shit?

I'm with her, she left her bf for me.

I know well that you're with her and I had read the previous pages. Learn better manners and good luck.

Quote from Klutch :

I think anyone would be anxious when they've finally gotten there best friend, of whom they've been chasing for almost...3...years?

WE are in control of the situation. I'm not a controlling douchebag, shes her own person.

Sure, I feel for you, because I've been in a similar situation. It's really a torture to see her with another guy, and then it's even harder to not keep your hopes too high when she becomes single.

By control I mean leading (which not equals to dictating), and being well able to opt-out.

Quote from MAGGOT :

Behold! Detail, the Barbarian. Manliest of men. Tremble before the conquering might of his biceps and dominated wenches.

Oh, stop flattering me.

Quote from Klutch :

Argh. You're an idiot.

Oh, nice of you both.

I ask because you seem anxious. Otherwise you'd have taken this easily and with humour.

Last edited by detail, Tue 7 Dec 2010, 18:22.

Quote from Klutch :

If i walk into her making out with another girl, and we had not discussed wether it was acceptable or not, what do you think would happen?

It depends on how you both trust each other and how self-confident you are. If she's attracted to you and you control the situation, then no problem if she goes and guys buy her drinks, pay taxi for her, etc. If you're not sure, or if she controls it, that's a bad sign. And see, it doesn't matter whether you agreed to something or not.

Quote from Klutch :

Theres an awesome thing called trust. Relationships are based around it.

Sure. Let me outline that trust is based on actions, not talks. And why are you so angry at me?

Quote from Klutch :

+1 again.

I've seen so many relationships fail because theres no communication, each side is afraid to speak up when they're jealous, they don't know whats not and whats acceptable in the relationship, it all builds up then eventually goes to shit.

Ok, if you were just discussing what's acceptable and what's not, it's ok, but there's no guarantee that anyone of you will follow the agreements. You still need to set boundaries and speak up if she does unacceptable things. Relationships fail because one or both persons don't do it. But you don't need to sit down and discuss this beforehand. It's not a contract.

Quote from brandons48 :

There's more to a relationship than just sex...

Sure. Did I say the opposite?

I'm not saying you're not a man, but if you "communicate" so openly with her not when having sex, you get more feminine traits to your image.

Let me put it this way: for her to feel attraction and be happy to reach a relationship with you, to value you, she needs to do some work before you approve of her. It's still your job to lead and do the first kiss, etc, but she has to feel she conquers you.

Last edited by detail, Tue 7 Dec 2010, 17:53.