Race Report
=========================

Lap | Involved Cars | Actions

• Lap 1 | #14, #54 | #14 lose controll at exit of T1 and hits #54, #54 could continue, #14 flipped car, causing a Caution, racing accident | For

Caution 1 Starts

• Lap 3 | #54 | Overtakes several cars under yellow, gives the places back when pitting in | Warning For #54

Caution 1 Ends

• Lap 7 | #14, #18, #66, #999 | # 999 and #14 start to slide, #66 hits both cars and starts to spin, #18 hits the spinning #999, causing a Caution, racing accident |

Caution 2 Starts

• Lap 9 | #54, #9 | #54 overtakes #9 during Caution,does not give place back before Green Flag | -10 Pts. For #54

Caution 2 Ends

• Lap13 | #8, #18, #455, | #8 hits #455 at by doing a divebomp manover both spin, #18 hits the spinning #455 | -5 Pts. For #8

Caution 3 Starts

• Lap 13, 14 | #5, #9, #14, #18, #66, #54, #999, | #54 starts a concertina by bumping into the rear of #5, cars getting damage behind him, this happens several times in the race | -10 Pts. For #54

Caution 3 Ends

• Lap 17 | #54, #88, #89, #999 | #88, #89 colide racing accident, #54 hits one spinning, #89 rejoins racing line and hits #999 to spin him out | -5 Pts. For #89

• Lap 23 | #88, #999 | #88 hits #999, spins out #999 | -5 Pts. For #88

Lap 23
Caution 4 Starts
Caution 4 Ends

• Lap 28 | #9, #11 | #9 Hits wall and spins out, #9 hits the stationarry #11 causing a Caution |

Lap 28
Caution 5 Starts

• Lap 28 | #455, #89, #66 | # 455 and #89 both lose the car, #66 hits the rear of #455 to cause the car to spin totaly and hit the previous spinned #89 |

• Lap 31 | #54, #8 | #54 overtakes #8 during Caution,does not give place back before Green Flag | -10Pts. For #54

Caution 5 Ends

• Lap 32 | #66, #999, #42, #11, #455 | #66 hits #999, #66 spins, #999 goes into the outside hitting the passing #42, #11, #455 get involved as well | -5 Pts. For #66

Caution 6 Starts

• Lap 32 | #5, #38, #14, #18, #54, #42 | Concertina caused by #5 who bumps into #38, causing several cars behind to crash: #14, #18, #54, #42 | -5 Pts. For #5

• Lap 32 | #14 | #14 driving the wrong way for more then 60 m to get into the pits passing serveral cars who come in his way | -15 Pts. For #14

• Lap 32 | #18 | #18 turns car around because of spin going into the pits, is at the boarder of what is allowed. I've seen several tourn-arounds during the race like that. Butbecause of the fact i am the admin i give it a -5 though. | -5 Pts. For #18

Caution 6 Ends

• Lap 34 | #5, #8, #42, #9, #14, #455 | #8 spins out by hitting the rear of #5, #42 hits the stationarry #8, #9, #14, #455 did as well | -5 Pts. For #8

• Lap 38 | #14, #88 | #88 starts to slide, #14 hits the rear end of #88, racing accident |

• Lap 39 | #999, #8 | #999 lose control totaly into the wall, hits the #8 car | -10 Pts. For #999

• Lap 39 | # 11, #9, #18, #66, #42, #38 | #11 bumps the rear of #38 and spins himslef out, having other cars trying to avoid him more or less successfull, racing accident |

• Lap 41 | #66, #18, #42 | #66 and #42 fight for position, #66 spins a bit, #18 behind them gets hit into the wall causing him to flip, racing accident |

Caution 7 Starts

• Lap 42 | Pacecar | Pacecar Causes a Dominoeffect |

Caution 7 Ends

• Lap 47 | #66, #54 | #54.#66 colide, in my replay it looks like a bit of lag though, racing accident |

• Lap 55 | #14, #88 | # 14 totaly lose it and wrecks out #88 |-10 Pts. For #14

• Lap 56 | #14, #11 | #14 crossing white line after exiting the pits, enters traffic which ended up in a crash with #11 | -7 Pts. For #14

• Lap 64 | #11, #14 | #11 tries a divebomb at #14 at T1 without the position to do so and hits the wall, his car flips => caution |

Caution 8 Starts

• Lap 66 | #0, #66 | #0 overtakes #66 and does not give place back before end of caution | -10 Pts. For #0

Caution 8 Ends

• Lap 68 | #38, #0 | #38 starts a divebomb on #0, contact both continued |

• Lap 77 | #999, #42 | #42 hit the braking #999, causing #999 to be flipped, racing accident in this case |

Caution 9 Starts

• During this pacecar-phase everyone passed the pacecar, even the leaders who was not aware that he is the leader. Actually in Caution #8 two cars who were not the leaders stayed behind the pacecar. This time it was the other way around. I give out amnesty because of the lack of a position display in autocross race. I talked to becky rose, and her new X-system does track Positions and display it to the cars. We might get connected to her system in the pankace race, so the leader will then know, if he is The leader. This will help us a lot and will also improve the quality of the short-track events.

• Lap 82 | #14 | Repairs car on the track, and does not go through the pits to repair again there | -10 Pts. For #14

• Lap 85 #14 | #14 passes #18 under Caution -10 Pts. For #14

Caution 9 Ends

• Lap 98 | #999 | Spins at exit of t2, twice, causing a Caution by flipping his car |

Caution 10 Starts

• Lap 101 | #14 | #14 enters pits, flips his car, and goes in reverse gear in the pitlane, we concider this as dangerous driving | -5 Pts. Fo #14

Cautions 10 Ends

• Lap 109 | #14 | Spins out almost causing a crash |

• Lap 109 | #89 | Rejoined the race without a proper number in front of the name | -10 Pts. For #89

• Lap 111 | #14 | Spins at T2 |

• Lap 114 | #14 | Exits pits goes almost in a 90° angle onto the track, crossing yellow line, hits almost the wall | -5 Pts. For #14

• Lap 115 | #42, #0 | #42 and #0 colide in T1, #42 leaves a small gap, #0 tries to slip through, racing accident, #42 spins, both continued in same order |

• Lap 130 | #18 | #18 Gets ont he grass and spins himself out |

• Lap 140 | #14 | #14 Crosses white line when exiting pits | -2 Pts. For #14

TOTAL RESULTS (including Bonus and Penalty)
====================================
1______180______#0 PлGalindo
2______185______#42 Strokes>UK<
3______170______#455 FIN[UK]
4______175______#38[FPR]Yankman
5______155______#66 G.Gab BotP
6______150______#18[FM]Fischfix
7______151______#9[FM]^Ketil
8______152______#11[HR] SuLLy
9______128______#999_[PWRL]james12s
10_____129______#8PлRawex
11_____130______#88-PunkRocker
12_____122______#5-[BC]- GWADanny
13_____114______#89[FM]Ronald
14_____126______#79 J.B. BotP
15_____118______#74 - Moo.Danny
16_____115______#44 [RTS] Klemen
17_____112______#92[DLFS] Gab
18_____109______#96_HCGC™ Headbanger
19_____106______#3 Bo duke.WAV
DQ_____5_______#54-Springer (Disqualified)
DQ_____5_______#14PлHoga (Disqualified)


Bonus
=================================
Leading Bonus (5Pts.): #0, #11, #38, #42
Top 50% of Qualifiers (5 Pts.): #0, #8, #9, #11, #14, #38, #42, #54, #88, #89,
Winning Losers Race (5 Pts.): #79
Fastest Lap in Main Race (5 Pts.): #38
Pole Position (5 Pts.): #42
Highest Climber (5 Pts.): #18, #66, #455

Penalties
=================================
-64 Pts. For #14 Race suspension for 5 Races (Race 4, Race 5, Race 6, Race 7, Race 8)
-30 Pts. For #54 Race suspension for 1 Race (Race 4)
-15 Pts. For #89
-10 Pts. For #8
-10 Pts.For #999 Raced under Protest, race suspension for 1 Race (Race 4)
-10 Pts. For #0
-5 Pts. For #88
-5 Pts. For #66
-5 Pts. For #18
-5 Pts. For #5



Total Championship Staings after 3 Races
=================================
1st ____ 534 ____ #38[FPR]Yankman | 0
2nd ____ 520 ____ #42 Strokes>UK< | -14
3rd ____ 467 ____ #8| PD Rawex | -67
4th ____ 440 ____ #9[FM]^Ketil | -94
5th ____ 434 ____ #455 Fin[UK] | -100
6th ____ 425 ____ #11[HR] SuLLy | -109
7th ____ 389 ____ #18_[FM]Fischfix | -145
8th ____ 386 ____ #79 J.B. BotP | -148
9th ____ 368 ____ #74 - Moo.Danny | -166
10th ____ 361 ____ #999_[PWRL]james12s | -173
11th ____ 353 ____ #66 G.Gab BotP | -181
12th ____ 315 ____ #3 bo duke | -219
13th ____ 260 ____ #5 GWADanny | -274
14th ____ 255 ____ #88-PunkRocker | -279
15th ____ 250 ____ #007Jack.McIntyre | -284
16th ____ 232 ____ #14[HR] HogaMan | -302
17th ____ 185 ____ #0 D.Galindo .WAV | -349
18th ____ 165 ____ #07s[FM]Laudi | -369
19th ____ 165 ____ #2_Becky Rose | -369
20th ____ 160 ____ #55 Adonis BotP | -374
21st ____ 152 ____ #68[FM]2March | -382
22nd ____ 129 ____ #91_WOT.DEKO | -405
23rd ____ 123 ____ #07[FM]^KeNi | -411
24th ____ 115 ____ #44 [RTS] Klemen | -419
25th ____ 114 ____ #89[FM]Ronald | -420
26th ____ 113 ____ #22s[FM] Ecret | -421
27th ____ 112 ____ #50 TKS||Branislav | -422
28th ____ 112 ____ #92[DLFS] Gab | -422
29th ____ 109 ____ #96_HCGC™ Headbanger | -425
31st ____ 109 ____ #22 [FM]Byrney | -425
32nd ____ 98 ____ #13 DFH| LONT | -436
33rd ____ 0 ____ #028_Elliott | -534



Rookies Championship
=================================
1st ____ 520 ____ #42 Strokes>UK< | 520
2nd ____ 425 ____ #11[HR] SuLLy | -95
3rd ____ 386 ____ #79 J.B. BotP | -134
4th ____ 361 ____ #999_[PWRL]james12s | -159
5th ____ 353 ____ #66 G.Gab BotP | -167
6th ____ 260 ____ #5 GWADanny | -260
7th ____ 232 ____ #14[HR] HogaMan | -288
8th ____ 185 ____ #0 D.Galindo .WAV | -335
9th ____ 160 ____ #55 Adonis BotP | -360
10th ____ 129 ____ #91_WOT.DEKO | -391
11th ____ 123 ____ #07[FM]^KeNi | -397
12th ____ 115 ____ #44 [RTS] Klemen | -405
13th ____ 113 ____ #22s[FM] Ecret | -407
14th ____ 109 ____ #96_HCGC™ Headbanger | -411
15th ____ 109 ____ #22 [FM]Byrney | -411
16th ____ 98 ____ #13 DFH| LONT | -422
17th ____ 0 ____ #028_Elliott | -520

Last edited by Fischfix, Mon, 23 Jul 2007 13:29.

that scripting thing would be the best. so every host can define how they want to have their qualifying. and you also could have automated weekends with like: 30min. practice, 15min/4 laps qualifying, and race.

yep point 2 is not only for ovals, on circuit tracks you will not have to problem with traffic, everyone has the same circumstances to do the qualifying then.
the hotlap alternative is also okay if you were not able to send in hotlaps, that are done previously of the race and of course the sent in hotlaps need to be transfered automaticly into a starting grid, without any organizing. something like the owrl is nice for that. but as i said its not implemented in lfs.

again, these stuff is mainly for leagues, because qualifying is not much used in normal online racing.

i don't care really about point 2 to be honest, because i won't use it, but i am thinking there about other leagues. but the lap amount should be an option in combination of a timeframe.

hey i want to join the race. i signed up but i did not find the password on the website. please!

did you even read my posts?

Last edited by Fischfix, Sat, 21 Jul 2007 18:26.

ok this is pretty simple:

1_have the possibility to choose in qualifying how many laps each car is allowed to do.

2_have a possible "private" qualifying so every car is on the track at the same time but you don't see them. so everyone got a free track. this way a qualifying for a 32 peoples race could be done in 5 min. and not 1 hour until everyone got his 1 outlap 2 hotlaps done individually

these two things should be additional to the present simple time-based qualifying.

actually there is no tactics at all, at the moment because the league admin will tell you when you have to do your 1 outlap and 2 fastlaps. which takes hours!
or if you have a time-based qualifying as used in other leagues at the moment everyone just tries to get as much laps done as possible in the given time. where is the tactics there?

you could have like 30min. open qualifying with a max of lets say 5 laps (decided by the host) you are allowed to do. THEN you got tactics. because you have to wait to get your laps done until there is no traffic or until you find a partner who can help you somehow.

but again... one more step towards rFactor if such easy optional things won't be implemented in the future.

Last edited by Fischfix, Sat, 21 Jul 2007 18:29.

on the first look, yes. but keep in mind every driver has one drop result, so the race where you got the least points will not count for championships.

Race-Statistics and Replay are available on www.lfscar.com in the results section.

Unofficial Results (Points not including penalties)
======================================
195_____#38[FPR]Yankman
175_____#35 GETschawo
175_____#42 Strokes>UK<
170_____#0 D.Galindo
160_____#96 HCGC™ Headbanger
155_____#18[FM]Fischfix
151_____#79 J.B. BotP
144_____#91_WOT.Dεκο
142_____#01 ZEZ°ﾒ
138_____#66 G.Gab BotP
130_____#666[BlitZ]Niko

including Bonus:
Fastest Lap: #38
Highest Climber: #18, #96
Leading Bonus: #38, #42, #91
Pole Position: #42
Top 50% of Qualifier: #0, #35, #38, #42, #79, #91

on ovals the xrr is the fastest car when it comes to longer races, in shorter races it is as fast as the fzr. but the fzr has the advantage at starts. so putting another 10kg off will make the xrr by far the fastest car on this track.

global car balancing does not make sense at all. it should be a server-side option and server admins should be able to choose according to the track they are running, if they want to balance out the cars.

everything else is just a waste of time.

i've tested it now, but i did not get the "middle" message...

i think in this class no wings were alowed, but it could have a COT trim. like in the uf1 where you can switch on/off the roof.

Quote from PMD9409 :

Blackout has a point about oval servers, but the decreasing reputation toward oval servers from the past, is still going on. IMO, the decrease in reputation is not from the shift+s crap, but from what cars the server uses. Most people that race on the oval now think that the fastest car is the best car for the oval (totally wrong). LFSCAR for example should be running fz5's or atleast tbo's. Then those servers that run the cars that are the most technologically advanced and basically have the most grip are just dumb imo. If you think aero physics are the main problem (it is a problem, but not the main one) then do you really think that you can race like nascar does at daytona and talledega with the F1's? You complain that we don't have a proper car, but what is the most proper car we have now?

Oh and Fischfix, if you could make it around the ky oval without braking in a stock car, then the devs did not make the car realistic.

in fact i was thinking about the fz5 for using in lfscar, and when you ask some of my team members i encourage them for a fz5 oval-server. ask becky as well, we had a long discussion about this as well...

the problem with the FZ5 on the oval is,
1) you won't find enough people to run a series with it
2) you won't find enough people who run good races with it
3) the series would be down to: who can control the car the best way around the track (like circuit racing) and not who makes the best moves at the right time, who is able to draft well, who can work together with other people on track, who can make the right decisions when to pit and when to stay out.
4) xrt maybe would be a logical alternative and i can remember good races with xrt on the oval, close ones, nice ones. but at the end of the day, they are too slow. to run a 120 lap race, you would need 2 hours, without a caution. i am not sure even if you do have to pit at 120 laps with this kind of car. pit-strategy is also a basic thing in nascar which is barely reproduceable in lfs at the moment...

anyway, if owens car from above makes its way into LFS, i will promise to run the series with that one

thanks for the middle !

Quote from Blackout :

That is nice, wouldn't mind driving it.

But anyway. I think that most LFSers don't like oval racing because it really blows in LFS at the moment. Typically the car of choice has been the fastest available, which gets boring if you can keep your foot down for the whole race. Not even to mention the bad servers (no names) which gave the oval racing a bad name since the beginning, they demanded to spectate if you crashed and all kind of crazy stuff which was ridiculous and not even to mention that the combo usually lures all the newbies in. Which meant carnage. Restarts because the admin said so, and more restarts. So, it might have retarded reputation in the eyes of most people.

Personally, I don't like combos I can't miss my braking points and crash.
Oval racing in LFS is like that. Few more types of ovals and a stock car wouldn't hurt a bit, I'd love it.

But, I think we also need some physic updates to make oval racing a bit more exciting. Aero model should be improved to create more realistic drafting, not to mention overheating of your engine! This applies to track racing too of course.

its comments like these that makes oval racing having his bad reputation in lfs. in every other racing game where you can race on ovals, the same rules applie there. if you crash your car you should go to spectate just to be fair to the other people on track OR they have a working pacecar procedure integrated. there is no sense in driving around on an oval with a broken suspension. the problem is: in lfs the pits will repair that kind of demage so people think they can go on and make it to the pits. in other racing sims, a broken suspension is a broken suspension. retire or be kicked...

but you've got your point there: this discussion is useless with someone who does not see that you can't apply circuit racing rules to oval racing rules and vice versa in 100%.

the problem with lfs and the oval is, we don't have a proper car. i am damn sure with a 800bhp stock car you would not be able to go flat out on kyoto oval (sure you would not brake into the turns because its a speedway and not a short track). you will need to lift into the turns, otherwise you loose your rear end and thats it. imo driving the fz5 through turn 3 is the closest you can get at the moment (but not because of the right car, its just the weight of the motor in the back) but its a close feeling when you loose the rear end. compared to other sims...

anyway, i see your points and your dislike of ovals but i don'T see any argument in there...

you came 3rd, thats true but this is the standings INCLUDING all bonus. yankman collected more bonus during the event so he overtook you with the points.

i will check the climber thing again,thx

wtf, omg whaz goin on in here??????? i in da wron fo ruum?


sorry, i couldn't resist.

Quote from G.Gab :

on lap 17 i was taken out of the race completely. after overtaking #18 on the main straight #18 probably tried to get his position back braking into the hairpin. unfortunately he totally missed the brakepoint and hit my rear so hard that it caused to me to go flying straight on and "take the wrong route" and auto switch to spectate.

i don't agree 100%, but with most part. i was not trying to overtake you becaus i knew i was not able to keep up speed with you at all, and i did not miss the braking point. in fact i brake on this corner much later then everyone else does (if i brake much earlier i go like 20 with 80km/h before i need to turn in....) which is due to the setup probably... i had the same problem with yankman some 20 laps later. (where i even backed up much more and still hit him because locked up tires when i saw the red rear lights flashing)

i must say it was my fault, as it clearly was, although it was out of any intention. i even try to avoid you and turning to the right when i saw your braking lights. i am really sorry for it though.

from my point of view it looks like you drove into that restricted area, as i could see you standing there for more then 5 seconds. i even wondered why you are not driving on the road again as i waited to let you pass again. then you suddenly disappeared to pits. but maybe this is kind of lag. i will review it anyway because i will get some penalties for it...

i also want to say sorry again to yankman as it was the same problem as above. you will see in the replay i waited to let you pass with lots of space in between. and i hit the brakes when i saw your red light. i even tried to brake with the additional help of the gears switching down with no other result then sliding into you.

but to be honest, it is still does not justify your reaction in ventrillo. i even stopped my car, came to your channel to say sorry. in fact i totally lost any kind of concentration after this, because i was so sad about that kind of reaction. i was running 3 seconds slower then the laps before for the rest of the race. (1.05s to 1.06s) but of course again, it was my fault probably and i will take the penalties for it.

there was also some strange issue in one of the last 3 laps, when i went to the grass to let yankman pass because i had a puncture. some car hit me from behind in the grass. i did not really see who it was or why, but as far
as i can see, i did not have anything to do with the cause of this crash.

what can i say more... its really not motivating to have 3 weeks to wait for a track where only 11 people show up on race day.

i also want to say a word to the #01 car. i am really not sure if it is a good idea to have you in the next races. most of the times i did see you spinning, flipping, stuck in the sand or entering/exiting pits. i will really discuss this with the other admins.

we also had a discussion after the race, to have something like a qualifying system for LFSCAR. every other monday evening where there is no lfscar race. we will have some sort of oval/xrr combination (most likely layouts we are using in lfscar) running for 1-2 hours with admins who watch the people racing. any new driver who wants to participate in lfscar needs to qualify by participating in these practice sessions and showing their capability to interact with other cars on track. (its NOT about hotlapping). also any driver who is in the actual lfscar series but got disqualified or suspended for a race has to take part in these kind of sessions to re-qualify for the series. the admins will also decide if they want to have even some of the other drivers in that kind of sessions, but only with good reason.

this new system is needed in my opinion, because we will run more oval layouts in the second half of the season, and the stcc/ctra license thing did not prevent the series from less experienced drivers. laptime PB on oval is also not much of a help.
but thats just a small preview...

what was good in the race:
hmmmm, i think the caution thing works much better with the pit-limiter. we might need to try it out on the oval but i think this is really an improvement.

also congratulations to yankman for his outstanding win (almost ahead of 2nd place)even though got crashed by the toothy #18 and also congrats to the #35 car, shawo who did a very good first event in the series.

i am looking forward to next week, as the layout can be a lot of fun and i hope i will fix my braking problems for that as well.

i also wanna say thank you to popps and racer and byrney for being administrators and pacecar-drivers.

...

Last edited by Fischfix, Tue, 17 Jul 2007 10:36.

nicely done owen. but the wheel is on the wrong side though...

btw. how did you do that model? in which program?

Unofficial Points for Race 3 (no penalties deducted)
=================================
190___#0PлGalindo
185___#42 Strokes>UK<
175___#38[FPR]Yankman
165___#455 FIN[UK]
160___#66 G.Gab BotP
155___#18[FM]Fischfix
151___#9[FM]^Ketil
148___#11[HR] SuLLy
147___#14�PлHoga (will be disqualified, not allowed in race 4)
135___#54-Springe��
134___#999_[PWRL]james12s (might be disqualified, not allowed in race 4)
132___#8�PлRawex
129___#88-PunkRocker
123___#89[FM]Ronald
121___#5-[BC]- GWADanny
120___#79 J.B. BotP
112___#74 - Moo.Danny
109___#44 [RTS] Klemen (will be disqualified due to penalties from race 2)
106___#92[DLFS] Gab
103___#96_HCGC™ Headbanger
100___#3 Bo duke.WAV


Leading Bonus (5Pts.): #0, #11, #38, #42
Top 50% of Qualifiers (5 Pts.): #0, #8, #9, #11, #14, #38, #42, #54, #88, #89,
Winning Losers Race (5 Pts.): #79
Fastest Lap in Main Race (5 Pts.): #38
Pole Position (5 Pts.): #42
Highest Climber (5 Pts.): #18, #66

Last edited by Fischfix, Mon, 16 Jul 2007 13:22.

did someone ever try out to mod the xrr/xrt to 800BHP with Tweak or mechanik? or can someone provide me with a .exe that works with tweak?

Quote from MIDWINTER :

atleast pick good tracks and cars to add, ovals are for people who cant drive or americans because they dont know the defenition on 'corner' propperly......let alone ever hearsd of a chicane, and nascars.......what other track could you use them on? atleast add cars to the game that have more than 1 use on 1 track.... i think that the basics of this idea are good but the car choice just wouldn't be fair, especialy to true racers who go round things called 'hairpins' or chiccanes i dont see a nascar getting around aston somehow.............

-1000......its not a suggestion or sensible update that 50% or more of lfs racers would enjoy....

Congratulations, you won the prize for the "most ignorant and incompetent comment in this forum for the first half of 2007!" (in short: MIAICITF 1/2 2007)

but just to "help" you:
1) it is called "stock cars" not "nascars" there is no thing called "nascars"
2) stock cars, like the ones used in nextel cup, even run on the canadian GP track, which is one of the more technical tracks in formula 1 (you know where kubica had his launch). they race at the glen and infineon raceway and one circuit track in mexico. just make sure what you were talking about when you next time post such a BULLSHIT .
3) everything else you've posted is just kind of racist and ignorant

totally NOOB! even i did more laps on circuit tracks then you did in total and i am an oval racer for 90% of the time...

Last edited by Fischfix, Mon, 16 Jul 2007 10:56.

to keep the forum clean i will move all posts/threads which are not necessary and are answered.

at the moment i don't see a way to make the events on weekends. i was thinking about the weekend for the 360 event (last race). but all other events are on monday, as posed before the season started. sorry.

that is the right attitude!