I'll give you a fiver for it . . . And a bag of peanuts. Salted.

Muhahahaaaa. Muuuhahahahaaaaahahahaaa. Muuuuhahahahahahaaa . . . .

*snort*

*Cough*

Need to give up smoking. just can't pull of the sinister laughing anymore. . . .

Good boy. You keep that up now you hear! Otherwise Uncle Funnybear will be round to show what happens when you don't go to school . . . .

Ok . . .

Done a 8-10 (Morning-evening) fit up at the theatre yesterday (Monday) which was after a get out on saturday night where we didn't get out the theatre untill 4am. I then got approximatly 3 hours sleep when I needed to get the 8.45 train to Cardiff to go pick up my car from the ex and see the daughter. So, I'm knackered already, the trains being diverted all over the place beacuse of Line work, got to (Which is no bad thing, except when your comletly knackered) spend the day with my daughter and ended up taking out my Ex's boy as well (He's turning into such a spoilt brat, I had to set him right on a few things). But it was a good day. Then drive back to Oxford where a had a pint at around 10.30. Got home. Watched shit telly then went to bed around 12. Got up at seven to be at work for eight. Finished work at 10. Ouch. Then been labouring all day today ripping apart a rail crane, which was rated a 5 tons, which means the steel beams have to be rated at at least 15 if not more. So this was a big crane. Knackered is now being layered upon knackered.
Now, I'm at stage door working still. But at least I'm sitting down now. Doesn't stop me from feeling knackered though.

Roll on proper job with sensible hours.

Might have a drink later as I got paid some cash today. Which was nice.

Weather. Started off like autumn, ended up like a sumeers evening. Very strange. Oh, and the fairs in town so everyones been drinkg, it's warm, been on adrenalin inducing death machines all day and my waters are telling me there will be trouble tonight.

(thought this needed a bump. Honestly, go away for a few days and you guys let everything slide . . .)

I also ran no toe in on the front. I could never really see the point. If you have to 'fix' the car with front toe in then you need to fix the car.

But rear toe-in is partilularily helpful with mousers on RWD cars. I always ran between 2-4 maybe even 5 degrees to help the rear control on corner entry and exit. Sure, it scrubs on the straight and saps some speed but the benefits, (Espeacially on sprints) far out wieghed the negatives. Although I had noticed that with the new patch much less toe-in was needed and I was steadily dialing it out of my sets.

No worries mate. Just thought your post was a bit off the mark.

I'm certainly not trying to shit on you or anything. Just expressing my opinion.

To work with some of you points. Scavier does have an interest in balancing and I'm sure he knows more than anyone where the problems lie in LFS. And as you rightly pointed out, miner adjustments are being made all the time. So it is improving just, it appears, not to some peoples time scales.

I do hold LFS in very high esteem. I think it's one of the best computer based formats out there at the moment. From inception, community involvement, ideology, production and what is effectivly ('cause they already have our money) after sales care . . .

Lfs has it's faults. That is readily apparent. But there is nothing out there that comes close and I for one can't do what the Holy three are doing. So who am I to complain. I just get a bit frustrated with poeple with I want it and I want it now attitude. But sadly that seems to be a fact of life in this consumer generation.

But. We're Cool Blowtus. We're cool.

Quote from Dygear :

Auto Gear shift, your going to to want this at [yes].

No, no, no . . . Nooooo. Na. Not at all . . .heaven forbid.

Sicaruis.

I am a mouser, although with my next rig I shall be upgrading to wheel and pedals . . .

But.

To mouse. Some of these settings need getting used to. But they are tryed and testing and proven to be very competative.

Start with your windows settings. Reduce your mouse speed and take off any acceleration you have. LFS takes it's mouse speed from windows.
Next, reduce steer centre to as low as you can handle. It will take time to get used to it but it reduces the amount of wheel turning acceleration LFS puts on the turning extremities. (I'm sure there are a few other settingy things you can do for the mouse but they are what I found most usful and effective. But I did most of my mouse tuning with the car setup itself.) I had the mouse set up to acc/brake and steer. Some people don't like this as the right hand is doing everything but I find it very usful to leave the left hand free (With doing gear changes) to do all your F'ings . . and stuff.

With the car . . .
Reduce the steering lock. Get it as low as possible that still allows you to manouver effectivly. This again slows down the 'digital' input of the mouse and allows you to more effectivly capture slides and the like by giving you more accurate control.
With acceleration . . .
Raising the gear ratios is a good tactic, just choosing a higher gear is a bit extreme and can seriously dent your performance, the higher gears are less vital but first is a definate. Lengthen it for all it's worth untill you are confident of the line. The grid start is the place where you will notice this. How often have cars breezed past you as you struggle to maintain grip. Lengthen the first gear untill you regain control. Second can be played with as well. Many tight corners will require second gear and a good way of settling the car is to lengthen the gear. A note here . . I find that 'tapping' the mouse buttons is counterproductive. The car still responds to the input and it will be rapidly changing from accelerating to slowing down. Making control even more difficult to achieve. To be fast you need to be smooth and know that when you put the power down the power stays down. You need this to maximise any areas you fall behind wheel users.
And so onwards . . .
Another way you can reduce the on/off power on effect is by increasing rear toe in. This gives the loaded rear tyre (In any given corner) the attitude of trying to force the car to straighten back up again. This is useful on turn in to reduce the rear 'snap' and very useful on exit as the squating rear tyre transfers the power to the road. Enabling to greatly increase your power on time. You can do marvelous things with the suspension as well, but that might need to be for another time. It's well worth learning about though and there are much better people than me to explain it for you.
And now onto the point . . ..

Manual box. Use it. You struggling with braking and this helps no end. You need to learn to use it if you want to have any hope of good racing against good racers, wheel users or mousers. The engine is a major tool in the control of any car and any control method and especially so with the mouse. It's an analogue input as apposed to the mouse's digital one. Use it or loose it. With it you can hold gears for corners, change mid corner if you have a control issue and most importantly slow you down with control. I can't tell you enough. Use it . . .
Along with this is clutch settings. Now, I was an FZR racer. Powerful rear wheel drive. Things are very different for other cars but I shall give you my general rule of thumb. Use the clutch pack and think of it this way . . .
Power on, mousers struggles with so reduce it. This is less apparent with the increased rear grip but try and stay low and work your way higher as you gain confidence untill you find your 'limit'.
Coast = Engine braking. Maybe more applicable to the FZR again but get this as high as you can. That way you maximise everything the engine can give you. Again, might take some getting used too but I helped me amazingly in braking.

A few other things that have come to me.

Reduce the tyre pressures. Gives the car more 'play'. It might feel a little loose but you kinda need that. Try and balance out between longevity of the tyre and best grip levels. Keep the rear tyre pressue lower than the front. This gives much better stability under heavy braking. Increase rear downforce if you are struggling for rear grip. Again this is something that you can reduce once you feel more comfortable with the car and setup.

I used to run the fronts of my cars quite loose with very low front bounce settings, this enabled the car to 'dive' effectivly under braking and allow you to maximise braking potential. Because you need to reduce the maximum braking force to save your tyres and allow you a full grip decelleration. Again. Once you are confident and used to things then you can up the brake force.

Start low and get higher. Don't try and race the wheel users without a good setup because you can't. Just concentrate on getting better, trying setups, experimenting and practicing. Before you know it your PB's are dropping and you are winning races. It don't happen over night though. So keep persevearing. You can do it with a mouse. The wheelers ain't always the last to laugh.

Just for note. I'm a 1.41.57 on AST/Nat wit the FZR. And I f I was still playing atm I would probs be a bit faster still.

I will be upgrading to a wheel as soon as I can though . . .lol

I''m off now . . . . Anyone got any matches?

I might be wrong babes. Just a memory stirrs from the depths of history. But I'm sure he has said something on the subject, somewhere, sometime.

I'm sat on the toilet.

The FZR doesn't react well to trail braking (depending on setup and driving style of course) and as a mouser I pretty much did all of my braking in a straight line. The FZR has the engine right out the back so if you turn in under braking then all the wieght just wants to keep going. The upshot is the engine wants to carry on in a straight line whilst you are trying to force it to change direction, meaning your back end will slide out if your are too hot or badly setup. The two corners you are talking about are probable the two most crucial complex's on AS Nat (The first 'proper' corner is somewhere else too look, but thats for when you have all the others hooked up)
If we look at driving style firstand I'll come to my setup pointers later.

The hairpin complex.

Again, as mentioned earlier, late braking is often the cause for the FZR to struggle into corners. Try getting ont he brakes earlier. I think you will be surprised at how it can make you corner come to you. Once you have found a braking spot that, even though you might consider slower, you are comfortable with and enables the car to maintain composure through the corner you can then adjust for later points as you get more confident and your setups change.
The chicane braking point is often a difficult one to judge as there is no real markers on the right of the track . . . I used my forth gear change light. And adjusted the gear ratios to give me an exact point as the light comes on to hit the brakes. The chicane does reward you for a slower entrance. Stabilty over that first kurb is vital, in fact I kept clear of it finding it upset the car too much, you can then ride the second kurb and if you've got it right you will be inches from the tyres. Get it wrong, your in the tyres. So again, try pushing your brake point earlier and then building back up once you have got comfortable and stable through it. The chicane definatly has a nack so don't get to downcast over it. It took me many months to crack it.

And so to setup.
Some things have been mentioned. But you spefically are saying you have problems under braking. One thing that struck me with the FZR is the tyre pressures, this is less apparent under the new patch but still relevant I think, in that if you run the rears at a higher pressure than the fronts it can cause the rear of the car to be alot more jumpy under braking. It's a balance thing because the FZR eats it's rear tyres but I always maintained a higher pressure at the front. It just calms the back down a treat. And such a simple thing too.
Increasing rear toe in will not only help you in the turn in (By the fact that whatever outside wheel the car is leaning on is turned into the corner means the tyre is trying to 'force' the car straight again. This gives a slightly more forgiving setup and with a mouser it's an invaluabel way of gaining power control) but will also help you get the power down on the exit.
The other vital place you need to look at as well as understand is the damping. Weight transfer is everything. Under braking all the weight moves to the front, under acceleration the weight moves to the rear. Now, just because you are off the brakes and turning into a corner does not mean that the weight dynamic has settled down, you are still slowing down untill you press the accelerator again. In a corner entry instance where the rear has less weight leaving it more prone to sliding then an increase in front bump dampening and increasing the rear rebound will keep more weight at the back for longer. But then that could well effect the handling in other areas. So you need to experiment and practice and learn to notice what the car is doing at any given moment. The Cars in LFS communicate with you and if you listen they will tell you what you need to too. I would really recommend reading a few of the setup guides and car handling explanations that are around. There will really make you appreaciate just how good LFS is when it comes to car handling characturistics.

Oh and do you use a manual box? If so you might be changing down to early. This causes the rear wheel to lock up and take you straight the scene of the accident. Use each gear. It's fairly safe to go from sixth to fourth, but hang around in forth untill you have scrubbed some speed, then quick change to second.

Hope that helps you. Like I said, there are guides around which are really helpful in learning how a car handles and what the setup dynamics are.

But thats just half of it, the other half is you. Practice and adjust and test and practice and the PB's will just roll in.

Happy racing.

Quote from Blowtus :

Why has it destroyed the car? An xrr with a slight power increase is still going to drive very much like an xrr - ie front engined, nicely balanced, not as much grip under acceleration as rear engine. The benefit would be you could run a successful multi-make series or race. You've proposed no benefit for 'unbalanced' car classes other than 'this is the way God / Scavier intended' which is just sycophantic bollocks, imho.

You know what. I have entered into the spirit of things, had a good look at the subject matter and generally conducted myself as well as I could have. I have given reasoned arguements and gathered information. I may be playing devils advocate, but I have done nothing but try and push the subject matter forward. If all you can resort to, Blowtard, is cras generalizations then it suprises me not that Scavier won't 'bow' to public pressure in the rebalancing issue. In fact I am sure he has already made his feelings known on the matter before and I know he's not prone to repeating himself. I find your repsonse insulting to say the least. I have done nothing but explore the topic and give reasoned, if alternative, views on the subject matter.

And prehaps you need to reasses what it is you want from LFS and what it is giving, and will give in the future, to you.

It's really, really windy out there . . .

All we need now is a brownian motion generator, in fact I'm going to go make one now . . .

Quote from sil3ntwar :

About the plane thing:

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/060203.html
http://www.straightdope.com/columns/060303.html

I dont understand any of it!

A wing needs airflow to give it lift. A runway enables the plane to accelerate to a speed that gives the wing the airflow it needs.

Now, if you had a powerful enough fan you could lift a stationary plane because you are generating enough lift through the airflow across the wing . . . .

Bit of a no brainer really. Very bizarre question.

And it looks like it will be like that for a while yet.

Quote from Jakg :

Heres one:

I am single (as of a few months ago)
I am sometimes funny
Women claim to like humor

Ergo i am a sex god

you see?

Funnybear - please explain the be-your-own-father one to me! as i see it then maybe you could sleep with your own mother and make a brother (as sick as that is!), however to sleep with your mother and create you would imply that before you went the child you created (you) did not exist before, if that is true then you didnt exist when you traveled back to a time when you didnt exist

Oww, my head hurts!

If you go back in time and meet your mother right. Nine months before you are born. Have sex (Yes, that is how it works) then travel back to your own time. Can you be your own father. And if you are then you are caught in a paradixical time loop in that you have to travel back in time to become your own father, if you didn't travel back in time then you wold cease to exist. But if you are your own father, who is your fathers father? and on untill your head hurts more.

Quote from P5YcHoM4N :

Who are humans to say what is and isn't a planet? If you look at the big picture, we're just a tiny speck of dust next to some of the monesters around us.

There is a very famous book that begins with the following . . .

'Space,' It says, 'is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly hugely mindboggingly big it is. I mean you may thinks it's a long down the road to the chemist, but thats just peanuts to space. Listen . . . . '

And so on.

The Universe - Some information to help you live in it.

1 Area: Infinite.
Infinite: Bigger than the biggest thing ever and then some. Much bigger than that, in fact, really amazingly immense, a totally stunning size, real 'wow, that's big', time. Infinity is just so big that by comparison bigness itself looks really titchy. Gigantic multiplied by colossal multiplied by staggeringly huge is the sort of concept we're trying to get across here.

2 Imports: None.
It is impossible to import things into an infinite area, there being no outside to import things from.

3 Exports: None.
See imports.

4 Population: None.
It is known that there are an infinite number of worlds, simply beacuse there is an infinite amount of space for them to be in. However, not every one of them is inhabitated. Therefore, there must be a finite number of inhabitated worlds. Any finite number divided by infinity is as near to nothing as makes no odds, so the average population of all the planets in the universe can be said to be zero. From this is follows that the population of the universe is also zero, and that any people you may meet from time to time are merely the products of a deranged imagination.

5 Monetary units: None.
In fact there are three freeely convertable currencies in the Galaxy, but none of them count. The Alterian dollar has recently collapsed, the Flainian Pobble Bead is only exchangeable for other Flainian Pobble Beads, zand the Triganic Pu has it's own very special problems. It's exchange rate of eight Ningi's to one Pu is simple enough, but since a Ningi is a triangular rubber coin six thousand eight hundred miles along each side, no one has ever collected enough to own one Pu. Ningis are not negotiable currency, because the Galactic banks refuse to deal in fiddling small change. From this basic premise it is very simple to prove that the Galactibanks are also the product of a deranged imagination.

6 Art: None
The function of art is to hold a mirror up to nature and there simply isn't a mirror big enough - see point one.

7 Sex: None.
Well, in fact there is an awful lot of this, largly because of the total lack of money, trade, banks, art, or anything else that might keep all the non-existent people of the Universe occupied.
However, it is not worth embarking on a long discussion of it now because it really is terribly complicated. And we would end up being here all night.

Last edited by Funnybear, Sat, 2 Sep 2006 13:12.

Thats not paradoxical. . Thats a blatent lie . . .

-edit- Now my psot don't make sense . . . cold you enter in the -edit- point so people can at least see that I'm not going mad . . .

No need to rise to that lads. Far to easy.

Last edited by Funnybear, Sat, 2 Sep 2006 13:17.

Quote from AndroidXP :

"Had a quick search could ... nything about this." ?

Dammit.

I did. Honest.

I put in Physics cards. Physx cards, physx.

I really did. Maybe I got some wierd search options set or something.

Cheers for the input anyway . . .

Had a quick search couldn't find anything about this.

I'm thinking of doing a Dell once I got some cash coming in and they could supply a physx card. Is it worth it? Are next Gen games really making the most of specific cards like this?

It's and extra 120 quid or something like that. Is it worth lumping it in or wait for a few months and get one if I think I need one.

Have I just answered my own question.

Damnit.

Anyway, any thoughts appreaciated. Especially about the Dell way of doing things. It just seems easy for me. And the name don't seem to be all that bd.

I used to drink shedloads of coffee, I mean silly amounts . . . Then my liver exploded and I kinda had to stop.

Quote from STROBE :

Funnybear, your stance on this issue is somewhat tempered by your repeated comparison of an FXO to an FZR. Yes, an FZR is faster than an FXO. I should bloody hope so. An FZR is also far faster than an FXR, which shouldn't always be the case. It should depend on the track.

You know what I mean. All these abbreaviations are just designed to confuse less cerebral members of the community like myself.

£2.50? Had a pay rise?

I love women.

Just thought I'd share that with the group.

I love thier company, I love that great feeling you get when your having a really good flirt but in an innocent way.. .

I love it when a girl is phoning you to see what you are up too . . .

I just love women.

Thankyou.

Oh. Weather . . Overcast, drizzle. Slight wind. It's gunna be grey all day. Grrrr. And I had to tell JW's to bugger off this morning. There was a gang of them, like their trying to bully you into going to church, or kingdon hall or whatever their calling their palace of blind faith.

Grrrrrr.