Quote from Shotglass :

yes you do you just dont notice it if you wouldnt countersteer your bike would never lean into the corner in the first place and no matter how slow you are you need some lean to corner

Sometimes while I'm manouvering the bike in traffic I actually run out of steering lock so you can't tell me I don't turn the bars in the direction I want to go! Yes, there is a tiny bit of lean too but hardly at all as at 5 mph or less you have no gyroscopic affect to keep you upright.

Last edited by Gentlefoot, Thu 28 Jun 2007, 12:18.

Quote from Shotglass :

it doesnt matter even a mountain bike (you know the kind without a motor) is hardly steerable without countersteering
just accept it as soon as youre moving your weight means diddly squat to where your bike goes

Clearly you've never riden a large bike then mate?

When I got on a GPZ500 after my GSX600R I almost dropped it onto the floor the first time I cornered on it. And you're saying the tyre size and weight of the machine makes no difference. I've owned 3 different bikes all with different tyre widths and weights. You'll just have to trust me on this I'm afriad.

Also, you don't countersteer at slow speeds. When riding through traffic jams, weaving between cars to find the gaps you use the steering in the normal way i.e. turn the bars the direction you want to go. Same on a push bike.

Quote from Shotglass :

why dont they simply control the fuel and air intake instead of completely mandating the engine size ... again
still on the course to get more and more ridiculous

I think they will be doing that too. I think what is said is that the co2 and fuel limits will probably result in 1300-1500cc turbo charged engines.

I agree - I think these regs look very encouraging. They were saying they were going to limit revs which was sad. Now we are gonna get 1300cc turbos that rev to 17000 - awesome!

Quote from sinkoman :

I'll try to get better on my bike then so that when I have the money to upgrade to a sportsbike or a dualsport, I won't be left staring down the face of an irate learning curve.

Just be careful mate and remember the golden rule:

"Always be able to stop in the distance you can see"

Try tonight

Any more excuses - lol?

I don't think countersteering is as important on light bikes with narrow tyres like mopeds and dirtbikes. Get on a 180-200KG sportsbike and the thing will hardly turn with all that weight and big wide tyres unless you get your weight positioned and countersteer.

Quote from sinkoman :

Thanks for the advice.

And thanks for the weight advice Gentlefoot. That had been confusing me for the past few days. I figured it'd be better to use my rear brakes into and through a turn, yet to get maximum rear brake efficiency, that'd mean that i'd need to drop my ass on the absolute rear of my bike, which didn't make sense for turning.

Be very careful of using the brakes in the turn. You are using up your traction circle with lateral grip and any longitudinal forces caused by you braking could result in a loss of grip.

In a car you can brake deep into a corner but this is much more risky on a bike. You will also find that the bike won't want to drop over when you have the brakes on. After about 5 years of riding I was able to brake deeper into corners but it took some time. Sometime I head into a corner still with a small amount of front brake on. As you release the brake the bike drops over but until then you can't lay it down.

Forget about 'backing in' to corners - strictly track riding only - very easy to get wrong.

It will all become clear when you've been riding a while. Don't worry about countersteering, you will do it naturally without even thinking about it.

The important thing if you want to corner fast is to get all your weight over the front and push down on the inside bar with half of your butt off of the seat on the side you are leaning towards.

Quote from AlfaLover :

I play usually at spanish league, and I DON'T AGREE with them in some way, yes the bug exists, but remember(o learn) In Spain all people is very clever and they never made mistakes, the real thing is the most part of spanish league drivers don't know anything about CLEAN race, and contact and group collisions are very common, everyone wants to win in any way.

I know this words won't be accepted by my community but is the truth, every monday.

Yesterday I end my race at second turn. You could drive carefullly at start, but the driver behind you never will do it.

These things happens since lfs-spain exists, the problem is these drivers now can't continue his dangerous driving. And others neither.

Please excuse my horrible english.

Respect to you my friend.

Alfas rock too!

I can see both sides here. It is an issue and no one seems to be denying that. The point that seems to be being made by a lot of people is that if this problem happens to you then you were crashing out anyway. I think that you do have to hit something pretty hard to end up flying in the air 30 metres. It's rare that a gentle touch causes a flip but this does accasionally happen.

In the first two races of the GFC I can only think of 2 'flying car' instances from two 75 minute races so if people drive sensible this bug doesn't really affect them unless someone else hits them hard.

I would love to see this bug fixed because it does spoil replays and when you demo the game to friends and they see this happening they lose all respect for the game immediately. For that reason and that reason alone I think it is a priority that this is fixed.

Practice session scheduled for 20:00 GMT Friday. ! hour free practice followed by a 30 lap race. Server will be passworded and the password will be available to gentlefoot.com members here:

http://www.gentlefoot.com/LFS/ ... ec45a580a414c7a7fbccfc556

GF

LMAO - you boys

Maybe tonight then lol

How about on GFC server?

FOX or FO8 - your choice. Kyoto National always a classic

This is what Peter Windsor says about the Ferrari performance this year. There's a lot more going on in that team than just this Stepney business.

"It’s becoming clear that McLaren has the car to beat. How has the team (a) achieved such a dramatic turnaround on its 2006 form, and (b) turned the tables on Ferrari since Barcelona?

In reply, I can only suggest that you refer to various editions of F1 Racing last winter, when we predicted categorically that Ferrari would go into decline in 2007 and that McLaren would win the world championship.
In the post-Newey era, team players like Neil Oatley and Patrick Lowe were always going to harness the best of everything at McLaren and eliminate the waste; Fernando Alonso was always going to give the team a new direction; and Lewis Hamilton – again as predicted – was always going to win races in his maiden season.
What did people think?
Did they honestly think that Kimi Raikkonen was going to jump into Michael’s car and win a World Championship?
Did they think that Felipe Massa had learned nothing from Michael?
Did they think that all the good people from the Michael era were going to stick around and continue to do exactly the same job?
Did they think that Renault, with Giancarlo Fisichella as their “spearhead”, were going to be as competitive as they were with Fernando?
As I said a few weeks ago, Ferrari have lost a lot of aero testing time over the past couple of months.
My Italian contacts also tell me that there has been – and still is - a “wholesale departure of white-collar aero guys” from Maranello.
Ferrari will always win races in the course of any season. Michael [Schumacher] showed them how to win championships.
Now he has gone – and the system is slowly changing as a result. What does that tell you?
Ferrari are big enough to regroup and recruit, of course…but it won’t be the same. "

For me it varies. It used to be the FZR, then the FXO, then it was the FOX, then the MRT, then the FO8 and now the FOX again

I do think the single seaters give the best feedback

Quote from DeadWolfBones :

GF, have you considered using an intake-restricted FO8 class rather than the FOX? I really like the multiclass concept, but in practice (IMO) the FOX is just way too slow in comparison with the FO8.

The whole point of the series is that there are two types of car with vastly different performance. This forces all drivers to be more aware and more patient. Just like Le Mans the classes have significant difference in lap times.

So the FOX is meant to be much slower than the FO8. It's perfect. If you want to race in dual classes with the same performance I'm sure there are leagues that use the TBO and GTR classes but this league is a different concept all together. And the results are clear - look at how high the standard of driving has been in the first two races.

Ofcourse you can. Look at how rain affects qualifying times in any real world event. It can be as much as 10 seconds. Now if the level of grip in LFS really was as low as it might feel to a new player, then the times would be A LOT slower than real life times.

Lydden hill is a 1 mile long circuit as is FE Club. It is also similar in layout. If you take a road car around Lydden it takes about 47 seconds in my Golf. This has 170 bhp and runs on yoko AO48s and has uprated suspension and is stripped out. In standard form I was about 4 seconds slower. WR in XFG around FE Club is 49.4 seconds.

In the wet this class of car is about 5 seconds a lap slower (a massive margin around a 1 mile course). This is what I'm talking about

I'm sorry but what is wrong with that. Tracks of similar length and config in similar cars results in similar times. I don't get your point.

Quote from nihil :

Since when was it unusual to find "white powder" in the paddock of an F1 event? Especially, at Monaco....

like it

Quote from deggis :

Might be that you already had the latest version, did you download it from the official website if you still remember? There has been not tyre physics changes since April 2006, so I think it's most likely that you already had the latest version.


How this makes any sense?

What do you mean? Makes perfect sense - if you compare the lap times of LFS cars to that of real world cars they are pretty similar.

Quote from choxaway :

Having originally played the demo and found the roadholding on the one circuit on offer a bit tricky, I assumed it was just me getting used to the game. The dirt track roadholding seemed quite authentic (I've done a very small amount of off-road go-karting as well as some tarmac races) but having just paid for and installed the S1 release (presume Patch X is this latest release and don't need to install that over the top?) I have to question the grip of any of the cars on offer.
I currently drive a fast sports car and at my age (59) am reasonably experienced at handling all manner of cars on assorted surfaces. On dry tarmac, most of the cars in the game should grip very well going round bends - the single seater and some of the two seaters (look like the Lotus or Caterham 7) should grip these surfaces with ease. Their wide wheelbase, fat wheels and low centre of gravity should allow them to whip through bends with hardly a twitch provided one isn't overly heavy on the throttle, but these cars twitch and spin off as if they were running on slicks on wet roads - and even under these circumstances the real cars would have way more grip than those in the game do in the dry.

I've read threads where those in the know say one should drive much slower, accelerate extremely delicately through and out of bends, but I do that in real life and know I can safely rely on my car to grip and hold the road. Not so in the game - you'd think we were driving on snow and ice.
Whilst I'm having a whinge, I realise work is being done on upgrading the A1 so that it doesn't ram into me at every opportunity as though I were invisible (at least I hope that's what the developers are doing), but the merest touch from an A1 car, and mine leaps into the air or develops an interest in revolving on the spot as though it weighs about two pounds instead of the several hundred of the real vehicle. It wouldn't be quite so bad if the A1 cars had the same problems but drive into or nudge one of them and they barely twitch a muscle and continue on their way unaffected as though I don't exist. How come their cars don't weigh two pounds as well?

I don't play any games online but I assume those who play against other human drivers find everyone suffering from similar lack of grip - at least that puts them all on an even footing and thus makes the races fairer. I also presume it's only the A1 that have superglue on their tyres. The roadholding issues need to be attended to if this is ever going to be remotely realistic. We need to play this game on a level setting - either our cars all grip the road and drive realistically or none of them do - I wish the developers would make up their minds.

Despite my moans, I still enjoy the overall driving experience, the realistic sense of speed and the 'normality' of the graphics - skies, trees, roadside rendering that don't look as cartoon-like as some games, but I feel disinclined to pay for and download the S2 add-on until I can see some increased sense of reality kicking into this game. For now I'll just have to deal with the A1's concrete fast cars and hope things improve with later patches.
What is interesting, though, is that after several intense sessions playing the game, when I later jump into my own car and head off into the hills, I find I'm taking bends way more cautiously than before . . .

I think grip levels are about right. If you look at the fastest LFS times they seem pretty close to real life when you compare similar powered vehicles on similar circuits of the same length.

What you don't have in LFS is the feel of the G force or the car actually rotating when it starts to break grip. This is maybe why you are struggling. All these inputs come from sound and vision in LFS instead and this takes some time to get used to.

Stick at it. If you feel the same way after a couple of months then maybe it's juts not for you.

All the parts were replaced once the white powder was discovered so performance was unaffected. They are just slow this year anyway.

Seems to me Stepney is being pushed out. I know he was unhappy at being 'poo pooed' following Ross's and others departures. I read reports that Stepney was unhappy with the shakeup. Maybe he felt he should have been given some kind of promotion.

Quote from duke_toaster :

Simply unworkable. It's not downforce that's the problem, it's the wings and winglets that these cars are spawning that cause aerodynamic turbulence that cause drafting problems. Ground effect wouldn't have that much of an issue.

Mechanical grip cannot be a substitute for aero grip.

Ofcourse it's workable. It's just the FIA choose to allow downforce. There is no practical reason why it shouldn't be outlawed.

That's nothing - at a sprint once in my 180bhp 900Kg Mk 2 golf I got beat by a woman in a Ford Anglia! Admittedly it was in Sports Libra class so wasn't really an Anglia at all but I thought it was pretty funny.