Everyone should be fired immediately

Also, they weren't TOO bad in Malaysia either.

How Kimi and Alonso are so far behind Vettel I do not know. Last year Alonso was doing better in a worse car ffs. And Kimi should be fired. Kimi is juts 11 points ahead of Hamilton.... ELEVEN.

Quote from tristancliffe :

He's the only driver to not be happy when he should be too. Then he sulks. And acts like a teenager. The worst thing is that due to his job he's a role model for children. So they'll think it's acceptable to be a moody twat.

Paul Di Resta is the BIGGEST moaner ont he grid... no one complains

Kimi witnesses a kid slam into the floor and does **** all... no one complains

Vettel acts like a whiny kid on several occasions.... no one complains

etc.... etc....

No one mentions they have to be 'role models'

Hamilton is just being honest... not HIDING any emotion. It's better than than being one of the 'smiling for the camera' corporate types.... or is that what you want? You sound confused tristan.

He should be a corporate type and smile for the camera or he should just be himself and not look happy. Either way one thing is for sure... you'll never approve.

Knowing the Mercedes form in racing there really isn't anything that happy to be about. Hamilton is the only driver to never pretend to be happy when he isn't,

Quote from R3DMAN :

The reason i play iracing is because of the intergeated seasons. It gives me a reason to race unlike lfs which is more about pickup races (obviously if i joined a league that would be different) i also like the laser scanned tracks and cars.

Yea the physics are a bit meh, but everyone is in the same boat so its the same for everyone so it does make for a good challenge.

Maybe i should get myself entered for a league, but i just dont think i could commit the time like i used to so ill probably be slow lol.

If you're racing the iRacing seasons then you clearly have enough time

Kimi has prior with this sort of 'you aint getting through' mentality http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMBP1T_jw5w

Quote from Dennis93 :

I completely agree.

But then maybe Perez should consider how 'feisty', as you like to call him, he is because no matter which way you put it, it will always be his fault, no matter how stupid/w/e it was by Kimi.

I think Perez maybe should have banked what he had already achieved. Some great moves had been achieved and maybe one more was not really worth it. The risk was too high.

But Kimi knew Perez was on one. He allowed his emotion to take over. Rather than defend properly like any normal racing driver, he did this really strange 'I'll teach him a lesson' line which is so lame it's beyond belief.

And Vettel just waltzes away with the championship. Kimi has the best car, and isn't delivering.

On a side note - Vettel's 16.5!!! I knew they were crusing for the whole race (watching the onboards made me feel suicidal) but by a whole 2 seconds. wow.

If you leave a big enough gap up the inside coming out of the tunnel and someone takes a lunge you only have yourself to blame. Hamilton defended from Vettel VERY well by not leaving ANY room on the inside. It's really not that hard.

What Kimi did was sheer stupidity. While Perez has to take a large chunk of the blame because there is an inherent risk, Kimi allowed emotion to kick in. He should have been defending MUCH earlier. Why take such a half arsed approach to the corner other than to try and be a dick... it's stupidity considering he knew Perez was a bit feisty into that corner. You defend early and negate ANY RISK. So from a sporting regulatory point of view no doubt Perez has more of the responsibility, from a championship point of view Kimi was stupid on this one. When thre evidence is Perez is diving up the inside at Nouvelle DEFEND EARLY! E.A.S.Y ffs.

Button was happy with move Perez put on him, so I don't see why anyone else would be. You leave room on the inside into the Nouvelle Chicane, then you are inviting someone to dive up the inside. If we ban this kind of move then F1 has to stop going to Monaco as you are no longer racing. May as well be a TT.

Quote from Rappa Z :

Really, were the old Toyota chassis they had not good enough to test on?

Nope.

This could be blowing up to something quite big.

Quote from mythdat :

You don't have to be a complete dick to overtake someone. It's perfectly possible to race fairly - see Sutil today.

what? dive bombing people at the hairpin?

Quote from mythdat :

I'm glad Kimi turned in on Perez. It ruined both their races but maybe it'll teach Perez that making kamikaze moves that rely on forcing other cars off the track to avoid a crash is a pretty shitty way to go racing.

No, it's a ****ing awesome way to go racing. No point having some pussy let's all drive in line and be besty mates and spoon each other post-race rubbish you get on sims nowadays.

The issue is the secrecy. How very odd from Pirelli. Surely there should have been a full public announcement?

Can't see Pirelli staying another year, this has started to become one massive pr **** up. Which it was ALWAYS going to be. Bridgestone knew when their tyres went to pot in canada and everyone thought that was a 'good' thing, that everyone had gone a bit loopy int he F1 world

Quote from Macfox :

Don't be so pretentious. Be less presumptuous about knowing the devs feelings and PoV. I'm sure if they wanted some speak on their behalf they would do it themselves.

You joke about realities of life. It should be obvious to the educated, but despite all fluffy and feel good hippie advice, there's limits in life, like it or not. While I wish the best for the devs in their pursuit, it's not sustainable at least in the current form. That much is obvious. If it's wrong to try and persuade a change for the greater good of the game, its fans and its future, then maybe it's already too late.

"Be less presumptuous about knowing the devs feelings and PoV"

"While I wish the best for the devs in their pursuit, it's not sustainable at least in the current form. That much is obvious"

Merc long run pace, especially Hamilton, wasn't all that bad.

Quote from Macfox :

If well proven principles of business, that have served world for god knows how long, is narrow minded and ridiculous to apply to LFS, then I want some of that crack you are smoking.

The current approach is unconventional, largely directionless and undefined (at least to future and current customers). Absence of approach doesn't equate a clear approach. If it were clear as you seem to claim, we wouldn't see the typical "WTF is going on with LFS" sentiment/posts here...would we?

If I recall correctly it was being part of the 'well proven principles of business' that the developers didn't want to be trapped by in the first place hence why they started LFS.

See, now this is a concept I know you really struggle with you, but .....wait for it..... NOT EVERYONE IS THE SAME.

You get your pop stars who will release an album every year, and pump out singles when they can....in a clear and business minded fashion.... and you get bands like Pearl Jam who just do whatever the **** they want. BOTH are valid. One thing is for sure I wouldn't want to listen to purely profit business minded music all day.

LFS development is as clear as day, if you can expand your mind enough to realise that the concept of 'its done when its done', if isn't too much for you. That's the beauty of business. You get your profit hardliners, and you get your more free 'do what we want' guys. There is no wrong, there is not right. As long as you can continue with what you love doing, that's all that matters.

It's great you have an interest in business, but it sounds like you've done a cheap course on it that fails to reflect the realities of life.

Quote from Macfox :

Don't generalise. This isn't about technical disciplines that the devs has shown great competence in. This particular aspect of this discussion is more about project management, marketing and customer relations, which isn't unique to LFS and certainly far from an outstanding achievement.

I have to use analogies to describe how crazy it is to tell a someone how they should run their own business. There is no set way to run a business. Some run for pure profit, some run because they love what they do. I suspect LFS is the latter. It comes across as extremely patronising, and somewhat stupid to rock up on a forum and somehow you think you know better than Scawan, when clearly you don't. In fact nothing is more off-putting than someone telling you what THEY would do... when they have NEVER done it.

And this customer relationship thing.... you have made a one-off payment of approximately £24. Now, I am 100% LFS has delivered more than above the value of the purchase price. If LFS were some subscription based system, then on-going customer relations would obviously be more important, but it clearly isn't. They've over-delivered with that price point. Do you really think someone is your slave for life because you spent £24. You probably spend more a week on fuel but I doubt you're on BP's forums moaning about their marketing strategy.

The narrow-mindedness of thinking LFS should work in a way you proscribe is so ridiculous. LFS developers have been VERY clear... now to repeat.... V.E.R.Y clear how they approach the sim game and what they took up LFS.

Quote from Macfox :

You make some great points.

The key to resurrecting LFS is fresh content. As with many things in life, people seek new challenges. New content will provide that and stimulate the community so we see more active players, more leagues/comps and all the peripheral activity that follows.

However only the devs can kick start this and holding content updates to ransom, over an indefinite update for physics is counter productive disenfranchising 1000's of players. Trying to simulate the community to return to LFS, without the support of the devs isn't achievable in any practical sense.

Bring forward to content release, players will rejoice, devs will get some income and work on the physics can continue while we have fun.

I'm sorry, but I've never read so much rubbish in all of my life.

Do you walk into you local shop and berate the shop owners for not decorating or updated their stock? I am willing to bet you've never done that. Why? Because it would be borderline crazy.

Do any forum members realise who stupid they sound telling the developers how to do THEIR jobs for them. If i wanted to know about developing sims who would I rather ask? Scavier - who has created a world leading simulator OR Macfox - some dude on a forum who has never achieved anything close to what Scavier have achieved?

It's exactly like when fans criticise bands for changing their musical direction. As if somehow a band creating music FOR the fans is much more important than creating music that satisfies THEMSELVES.

Am I the only one who sees this because http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AG7LjVCj50Y

Quote from Macfox :

Withdrawing from the community and providing essentially empty vague answers on fair questions isn't being frank.

Being frank would be explaining to the community what has transpired, why content is being withheld against an indefinitely milestone.

'Withheld'? lol What the hell does that mean? they are under no obligation to provide anyone with anything. There's nothing frank about disclosing private business information. That's just pure stupidity, something I think the developers have be burnt from in the past.

You've paid for S2, got fantastic content, and quite frankly amazing value for money.

Again this has nothing to do with the developers, this is to do more about the skewed logic of entitlement that pervades society. Everyone thinks everyone should work for THEM and work for FREE.

The developer's business model is RIGHT FOR THEM. They couldn't be MORE clear... MORE FRANK. I don't want guys depressing themselves to suit MY needs. I'd much rather Scawan and co do things THEIR WAY rather than moaners ont he form who quite frankly have demonstrated anything like the ability and dedication to a project like LFS because if they did they wouldn't be moaning about LFS, because they'd actually understand the concept of "it's done when it's done"

CAPS CAPS CAPS

Quote from Macfox :

I understand the point about motivation, but not the relevance the LFS development. LFS had an objective, it didn't eventuate and they withdrew from the community to great detriment. That's considerably different to your story where you met your clearly stated objective.

LFS development a fair topic to discuss and how that might be fixed and what the future of LFS is. If you can't talk realities for fear of "upsetting" the apple cart then there's more to worry about.

As for repsect etc...You primarily earn respect for being frank, honest and trustworthy. LFS devs have lost much of that with the stalled releases IMO and it's greatly overshadows their accomplishments to date.

"It'll be done when it's done"

They couldn't be MORE frank.

People aren't talking about the development, what people are actually doing is moaning about the devs to hide away from their own inadequacies. And no one is talking 'realities'.

There hasn't been any public development in years regarding the tyre model, so there really isn't that much to talk or speculate about. I don't know how clear the developers have to be, but it's fairly obvious changing the tyre model is a mammoth task and can take years, if not decades to get right.... big deal.

iRacing is the polar opposite to LFS, and while of course it is more popular (so what?) there are still fundamental problems. With all that extra motivation and content, it still has real problems with the tyre model.

Quote from mdmx :

omg.. well, first, check my post count. and then check yours..

there is a very thin line between projecting and provoking. i don't think you understand what i mean, but whatever. i'll leave this forum again for a next 2 years or so, and then maybe come back to check the progress. cu mate.

Your dedication to the forum and sim in general has been less than par. If you commit more, maybe hire a forum/sim coach you, could help push LFS more. Sell more copies and help the developers work better.



My point is that telling a developer whose work process is perfectly valid and acceptable, how YOU would do things in a hypothetical situation is pointless.

I've done projects before, one in particular where I brought back on old racing class at a local club. Just for fun because I loved the vehicles. Was a lot of hard work. But I did things how I wanted out of pure passion. however, after a bit of time when the class started to wane (naturally as parts were rare and I wasn't in it for the money and ran out of spare time) suddenly out of the woodwork suddenly you got these guys starting to state 'how they would do things better and what I did wrong'. To be quite honest it was nothing more than ignorant bollocks because my intentions were perfectly clear and stated from the start. but still "oh i reckon you should have done" "if you did this and changed this then this woulda been better". One thing it didn't do was motivate me in any way shape or form. NOT EVERYTHING IS ABOUT COMMERCIAL SUCCESS!

I just feel bad for the developers (hence my postings on this thread) whose work process is perfectly fine having to deal with this same old rubbish day in day out on their own bloody forum. We already have sims that do more traditional business models, it's nice to have some variation. And to have guys who won't release rubbish at ANY cost... you have to respect that. If nothing is released.... so what.... at least they gave it a go.

Quote from mdmx :

That's what happens to lot of my own hobby projects. If i can't make it exactly the way i want to, to the perfection, i lose my motivation.

That's why artists needs bosses, to force them to do compromises.

Sad this happened to this game, the start was so good. Maybe someday Scawen will get enough motivation to finish the god damn physics. That's the issue, after physics are good enough for him, he can finish the easy&boring stuff very fast.

But ATM not looking too good.

Cmoon, don't mess this up. This is the opportunity of your life. Just do it!

This is ten percent luck, twenty percent skill
Fifteen percent concentrated power of will
Five percent pleasure, fifty percent pain
And a hundred percent reason to remember the name!

Be humble, do whatever it takes. Hire the teamleader, the one with the sharpest whip. The one who forces you to keep working.
You will thank yourself afterwards.

I think you should stop going on forums wasting your time. maybe hire a life coach so you can give 100% to your life.

Be humble, do whatever it takes. Hire the teamleader, the one with the sharpest whip. The one who forces you to keep working.

You will thank yourself afterward.

Quote from sinbad :

Probably it's just that I don't get the bitterness towards Scawen but whatever.

Sinbad, you're wasting your time. The moaners on here clearly can't actually understand the mindset of the developers or just refuse to accept it.

Like, I don't go into a coffee shop and berate the owners for not doing things the way I want. "Oh you should work more to develop your blend" or "the colour scheme in here is wrong, you need to change it".

But with sims people think it's perfectly normal to write an essay about how wrong the developers are.... when in fact the developers can't ever really be wrong because Scawan and co have made it clear what their objectives are i.e it's done when it's done.

Quote from dawesdust_12 :

I've never heard of a sport that changes the rules mid-season. It always happens in the off season in response to something that occurred during.. Although F1 has always been pretty stupid for changing rules on a whim. diffuser crap and other stuff as examples of this.

They are not changing the rules. It's perfectly within the rules for Pirelli to change tyre construction and compound.

The teams wanted a tyre manufacturer that provided better racing. This is a result of that. Should they then whine about it? (yes of course they all should at all times) BUT this is EXACTLY what was asked for. If they can't adapt and change, tough.

And F1 isn't like other sports. There are only 24 cars in the world that can compete in any given year. How many sports have things like the Concorde agreement?

"Why does daddy get two goes when I only get one?" lol

Boulier is obviously going to moan, that's his job, just like every other team principle. However his argument has a gaping hole in it. Particularly this bit.

“I don’t know a lot of other sports where, let’s say in football, they decide to increase the size of the goals in the middle of a season”

Well, if the goal manufacturer's had a mandate to provide goal sizes that provided 'entertaining' games, then it would be perfectly reasonable if the games weren't entertaining they would in fact INCREASE the size of the goals mid-season. If you had a team that had perfected small goal tactics, then tough luck.

You can't have a tyre manufacturer whose sole objective is to provide tyres that make 'good' racing and then expect for them to somehow respect some 'sporting' philosophy.