I don't think there were any decent deals on the table from ITV or C4. It was Sky or nothing decent at all.

Bernie has been able to suckle on the tax payers tit for fair too long whether it be through heavily inflated broadcast rights costs (via the BBC) or overly priced race fees. Time for F1 to grow up and f1 fans get a reality check. F1 isn't a sport for the masses... it's a sport for the top .0005% in society. F1 to sky is a perfect marriage. You want to watch it and partake in it as a fan... pay for it.

doesn't matter if it's a bad move for F1. it's a good move for those who do not wish to have their taxes subsidise a sport exclusive to the most wealthy in society. It's about time the BBC actually realised what they were supposed to be.

Blueflame I didn't say the Hulk was a pay driver, read carefully.

Sutil would be ideal for Williams... a pay driver who isn't too bad.

The thing about the modern pay driver is they tend to be highly competent. They bring bags of cash, and cash also buys experience and competence. But F1 is fast becoming a gentleman's series. THANK GOD the BBC is not having to waste more tax payers cash on this rich man's play toy

Last edited by Intrepid, Sun 27 Nov 2011, 14:16.

Hulkenberg to Williams? Don't think so, he said, and quite rightly too, he doesn't want to be a pay driver.

F1 is an embarrassment sometimes. Best drivers in the world? PISH.

I think Sky have come up with a good package. I think viewers should remember it's 100% better than what BBC were going to produce next year had Sky not stepped in. The Beeb were looking at dropping the entire F1 coverage provide.

F1 is an elitist sport, so I see zero problem with it going to Sky anyway.

micmacs - probably the most French film I've ever seen. Still enjoyable and watchable. Certainly helped erase the memories of Bridesmaids.

On that note - rotax world finals coverage is here http://kartracingnetwork.com/racecast/

AVOID Bridgemaids at all costs. Truly one of the most dull, predictable movies I've ever watched. Apparently women doing shit and sick jokes with their only comprehendable aspiration in life is to get a 'good man' is somehow revolutionary and 'fresh'. I simply can not comprehend how this shite got decent reviews.

Last edited by Intrepid, Mon 21 Nov 2011, 01:40.

No surprise really. Anything that has a wiff of public funds being involved when it comes to F1 usually turns out to be a disaster. Even in Venezula now ministers are questioning their WIlliams/pastor sponsorship.

Quote from BlueFlame :

What happened to this? Did the project die?

He did Kart Racing Pro, hence the lack of development for GP Bikes

Alg is bringing a fair chunk of cash and is doing reasonably well. F1 is as much a pay-to-play as it is professional.

I think he just hit the curb at precisely the wrong angle, and with low pressures coulda ****ed up the tyre. I doubt we'll ever know.

Why didn't Lewis get a drive through for taking Vettel out?

1Pedrosa D.Repsol Honda Team1:31.807
2Stoner C.Repsol Honda Team+0.161
3Spies B.Yamaha Factory Racing+0.723
4Crutchlow C.Monster Yamaha Tech 3+1.626
5Barbera H.Pramac Racing Team+1.841
6Dovizioso A.Monster Yamaha Tech3+1.919
7Rossi V.Ducati Team+1.981
8Abraham K.Cardion AB Motoracing+2.235

safe to say Honda has built a rocket ship regardless of track conditions, fuel configurations etc...

Very true, and Emmett has just said Rossi looks like the old Rossi on the bike again so maybe the Ducati will be better for 2012.

Quote from BlueFlame :

You don't need to know EVERY particle of asphalt to 'know' or even be quick at a real track.

Having seen the notes from the leading bike riders from the 500 era I suggest the best ones knew every particle of asphalt.

Quote from UncleBenny :

I have done two track days with my car at Watkins Glen in the past year and a half or so, and this past time my instructor was specifically telling me how shocked she was that I had only been on a real race track once before that time. Sims are not perfect in the physics department, but I knew exactly where I wanted my car to be at all times on the track and I was able to put it there. She also commented that I did a good job of staying on my own line through turns and not following the car in front of me when they would take a different(and usually wrong) line, this is something I think I definitely learned from sim racing without even really thinking about it.

Just to comment on something Intrepid said, I'm sure everyone's brains work differently, but at no time on the real track was I thinking to myself what was different being there in real life as opposed to the sim. I just don't see how that would ever even cross my mind, there's too much else going on to be thinking about a video game. In fact, I mostly learned stuff about the line at Watkins Glen in real life from the instructors that I take back to iRacing when I'm running laps in the sim.

Track days is a world away from high level competition racing. What you're describing is very general techniques like lines and so on.

I am talking about learning a track to world-class detail. No sim is good enough for that, especially iRacing. It was it was then they would be selling it for a whole lot more to some F1 team.

Last edited by Intrepid, Tue 8 Nov 2011, 15:37.

1Stoner C.Repsol Honda Team1:32.385
2Pedrosa D.Repsol Honda Team+0.476
3Spies B.Yamaha Factory Racing+0.841
4Rossi V.Ducati Team+1.472

Emmett is reporting that Hector Barbera says the new Ducati chassis is a big improvement. Much more front end feel.

Testing so far today

Pedrosa - 1.32.939.
Stoner - 1.33.513
Spies - 1.33.561
Rossi 1.34.291

So no dramatic improvement from Ducati Vs the Hondas

Quote from Ball Bearing Turbo :

What about Huutu's outing before he puked? Surely it's no coincidence that he did reasonably well after only a few laps - after all he'd never driven a NORMAL car before, and was under the weather.

I am in no doubt sims are brilliant as a tool for learning. They clearly helped huttu. But let's get something straight here - the kid didn't break any lap records, and it's still a complete unknown whether he would be able to hack it anyway.

What I don't like about sims is they paint a mental picture of a circuit in your brain, and for me anyway, it creates a false foundation for learning a track. I don't want to be reverting to the virtual circuit in my brain at any point. I don't want my brain processing "oh that was similar" "that was a bit different!". It's a waste of time and brain power. All my knowledge of a track, the real nitty gritty, has to come from reality. It's a much more secure basis for future development, for me anyway.

Sims should be about building things in the brain that can be reverted to without having to process and correct information. for example how to approach learning a track, or how do deal with racing situations.

Look MadCat, it doesn't really bother me who your coach is. I've sat through speeches from F1 coaches which I totally disagree with. I am pretty sure he hasn't seen Hamilton, Alonso, or Vettel take T6 in a Skippy.

Sims are way way way way way too simple to yet accurately replicate the infinite complexity of the world we live in.

But as i said, what works for you, works for you.

Last edited by Intrepid, Tue 8 Nov 2011, 09:39.

Quote from MadCat360 :

You're assuming that I'm assuming. You're assuming I've done no work in real life in order to go faster. I'm offended.

I would ask you guys if you've ever had the opportunity to drive the very same car on the very same track as iRacing (or on any laser scanned circuit), but I have a feeling I already know what the answer is going to be...

I'm assuming your not Fernando Alonso, and thus for all we know you could be approaching Laguna in completely the wrong manner. What you think is right, could be completely wrong. Unless of course you think you're at Alonso's level?

Look, what works for you works for you. That's great, that's fine. But for me tracks & cars are far too organic to be accurately modelled in the current generation of sims. I simply don't trust them as tools to learn tracks in any real meaningful manner. Other things they are brilliant for, I won't deny that.

Quote from MadCat360 :

It is true that the track changes. But it remains largely the same. Deposits of sand in turns 2 and 8 are easy to spot and avoid or compensate for. The line will rubber in as the weekend progresses but it won't change the actual technique too much, maybe a foot less distance at turn in, or slightly earlier power application, but nothing too major. Of course there are differences. But they are small ones. If you want to be absolute and say that any imperfection (such as lack of rubber or dirt) means it's worthless to a driver beyond "turn left here", well, then I don't know what to say to you. It was iRacing that taught me how to use the rumble strips at Laguna to destabilize the car on the entry. It was iRacing that taught me to be gentle on the braking and trail braking in turn 5. It was iRacing that taught me where to look to get the car to float into turn 6 just right, even with a blind approach.

I could have learned these things in real life, certainly.

You are assuming those are the 'best ways' around the track. For all you know you could just be transferring habits from iRacing into real life and depriving yourself of an even better style of attack.

Quote from MadCat360 :

A driver who doesn't take advantage of simulators, for whatever capacity, is a fool.

I am a paid up member of the sim club, just I think people are being a tad naive if they think they are learning tracks to any credible degree on a sim. Certainly they'll be an odd occasion where something coincidently is transferable, but we're not there yet where sims can teach you a track to any worthwhile degree.

laser scanning doesn't simulate how tracks evolve during a day. Tracks can vary depending on how moist the soil is and how that reacts to various temperatures etc... Commercially available physics models are just not good enough to take laser scanned tracks anywhere above being something nice. And a track will change all the time. Bumps develop over time etc... I don't think anyone has enough money to re-invest in re-scanning a track every 12 months.

I think the idea they train drivers how to drive in real life is a complete myth. To get into enough depth of how you attack a track you have to put in hundreds of laps on the sim. And by then you've probably picked up a ton of bad habits that you than have to unlearn. A decent driver will still come along and be quicker, without any sim experience.

Sims are brilliant for learning general techniques, but for the detail of learning a circuit properly, nah, not yet, not for a long time.

I certainly prefer driving on laser scanned tracks because they feel really good, but I won't fool myself into thinking I am learning anything special above a bog standard sim track.

The 1000s are going to be clicked back a fair chunk though because they still are limited by 21 litres of race fuel. So they won't differ too much from the 800s in race spec.

I think Stoner will win next year without too much fuss. I don't subscribe to the the idea his style is just suited to the 800s. Reports from his early tests on the 1000 Honda suggest he's as quick as ever. I think Rossi was around 1.5-2 seconds off Stoner's pace... allegedly. Even taking into consideration track condition, tyres etc... that's a fair chunk of time. They are testing yet another new bike on Tuesday (Ali twin-spar) so that probably confirms previous GP12 designs were slow.

However Bridgestone are bringing a new tyre with a completely different construction for Tues & Wed, so maybe that'll be the more defining factor in the 2012 season.

Will Rossi and Ducati get near the front? Doubt it. The Ducati is just too far behind. Tuesday's test wil be telling. Within a second consistently and they have a chance, if not, no hope. Stoner is the fastest rider, on the fastest bike. it'll take a miracle next year to stop him.

Last edited by Intrepid, Mon 7 Nov 2011, 11:43.

OWS and Tea Party protesters have a lot in common. They targeted slightly different institutions, but the problems they highlight are the same, just their solutions are different.

I do think a lot of the OWS are exceptionally naive though in putting faith in socialism as a solution. It just isn't