Ya you are right as bob's goal is to emulate nascar as best he can. It's too bad. The longest car we have is the FXR and even that doesn't fit the wideness of the stock car wheels

Curious bob, could you center the wheels to the XRT without seriously compromising the mod?

Ah ha, I've completely misunderstood your position in relation to the LFS devs.

I guess the best we can hope for is for the devs to change their policy on mods to incorporate well done ones (or at least allow them to be distributed)

Either that or the devs can create a stock car frame themselves

Quote from z-ro 8 :

any oval is a good oval...

Right hander Kyoto Rev? :P (Actually I'm starting to like the rev better than the standard )

Curious, Bob, you said that the devs dont want a mod that will edit the body work.

But cant they make an exception with this once since YOU are the one who created it? Not just some random kid who's bored?

I think a stock car frame would look very nice and an event around this would actually be really cool. Perhaps even see it being broadcasted.

EDIT: BTW I made some stock car skins myself.

#48 Jimmie Johnson
#55 Derrike Cope
#0 (my old XSCC skin )

EDIT: Regarding the body edit, I remember another group of devs (I think it's ASR devs not I'm not sure) said that they will absolutely not allow body edit but will possibly allow body edit that comes from inside their mod group. Personally, I think you can be allowed to edit the body without breaking the principle behind not allowing third party body mod.

Would you releasing a stock car frame to go along with the NASCAR mod really be that bad?

Last edited by lizardfolk, Fri 17 Jul 2009, 07:51.

Falkes I'm will waiting for the AUS template

Quote from Mustafur :

I think F1 is its own sepreate catagory, in order to get noticed to get a drive you have to win a feeder series but imo even the guy that came last in every race of that series may go better in F1 becuase hes racing style suits perfectly.

Its happened too many times to be honest, i mean look at Bourdais, Piquet Jnr, Zanardi for eg. all 3 have won or gone close to winning a premier feeder class to F1 yet all fail miserbly.

Then you look at drivers like Vettel, Kimi and Buemi who where not even in the top feeder classes and they all have done exceptional(buemi is still in his first season but so far so good).

Also Don't ridicule American catagorys they did Produce Montoya remember, he was dominated by Zanardi the year before he got hes CART title, and look at the difference in there F1 experince, Zanardi got dominated badly by Ralf then Montoya came to Williams and after hes 2nd season dominated Ralf himself.

The problem with Montoya is he started F1 too late he would of been alot better if he had of started about 2-3 years earlier as he drove like a completle nutter.

I think Bourdais would of been in a much better situation if he got a drive after the F3000 title.

Very good points Mustafur.

It is perhaps very very different but in general I would say that ChampCar standards are lower than F1. IndyCar might be a very different story however...as the oval biased Dallara chassis are so different. Different style, different animal, with a much faster top speed while slower acceleration than the F1 cars.

And F1 rejects aren't doing well in IndyCar recently as they did well in ChampCar.

Robert Doornbos moved to champcar. In his rookie season he scored 4 podiums and 2 wins. Seems like another F1 reject thrashing the American open wheel eh?

ChampCar fell, and he moved over to the normally more competitive Indy field. To this day his best finish in Indy is 9th. And he crashed out of the practice and race of the Indy 500. Enrique Bernoldi, and Ernesto Viso met the same reception moving to Indy as well. Also, lets not forget Johnny Herbert not qualifying in Indy.

Currently it seems that ChampCar is a weaker series, but Mustafur is right. Zanardi dominated Montoya in CART, but Montoya dominated Zanardi.

Who's to say what would have happened if it was Indy instead of ChampCar with IRL's freak of a chassis

Last edited by lizardfolk, Thu 16 Jul 2009, 07:40.

Quote from amp88 :

There have been plenty champions of the lower European / Japanese formulae (e.g. British F3, International F3000, Formula Nippon) who have struggled in F1, so you can't really use it as an indicator of performance for F1.

No no, I'm not saying that because he's an F3000 champion he should do well in F1.

I'm just saying that Bourdais isn't necessarily an American product. Ya he dominated in ChampCar, but he rose from F3000. It's not like he went from Formula Atlantic to Indy to ChampCar or from Indy Lights to IndyCar.

I would like to thank FM for such a great time.

I was nice racing with you. Sorry if I screwed anything up

Quote from 88Reasons :

Thanks to everyone for your feedback about our race(s). We will likely be making this into an all out league very soon so keep checking back. We tried to get a sub-forum up for these events and it sure would have helped. But in the words of a forum moderator who will not be identified here, "Sub forums are only for leagues that have proven to be successful". Perhaps we've earned the required credibility now? Would be nice. Stay tuned everyone!

LOL it's so hard to catch you when I'm on

I'll be on the look out for you :P I would like to talk to you

Quote from amp88 :

...

He's an F3000 champion

Quote from amp88 :

I won't be sad to see Bourdais go if the story is true. No real personality, no real speed. Another champion of American open wheel racing failing to cut it in F1. Slightly better than Michael Andretti though.

Ya, he's not American, he's French.

Quote from AstroBoy :

Go the young gun
But no surprise really, Bourdias could of produced good results it just never happened.

Kinda reminds me of Alex Zanardi's situation

Quote from jasonmatthews :

TBH I am quite surprised at the lack of apparent talent in the USA. These drivers come over after dominating there own backyard, to find out that the real competition is very hard. Fair enough, the cars/teams have alot to do with it, but still I would expect a few American drivers in F1 who could cut it Also, seen as the USA is such a huge market, then why don't teams give the yanks a chance in a good car, at least for monetary/sponsorship reasons...

Edit: May I take Football (soccer) as an example - the USA is doing pretty well now, but only after quite a few years (100+) of America thinking of it as a minority sport. If only the USA would integrate with the rest of the world in more ways, do I think that they can be a real force in World Sport. We still have the crazy situation of them claiming the World series in baseball (come on, we did that when we were 12, then never again), and other sports, when really they only play a few sports with the rest of the world. Golf, tennis, football & boxing is as much as I can think of atm. America is rightly very good at these, when they integrate with the rest of the world and stop thinking that the world is the US of A

I would like to see in the future American drivers doing more feeder series in Europe and testing themselves against the best the world can offer. It is only a plane ride away, which us Europeans have to do for every race meet. If this happened, I think we would see more Americans in F1, the top
of motorsport, which they should be in tbh

Then you'll plunge into the ugly argument of whether IndyCar is a valid series. Nevermind NASCAR, closed wheel motorsports are an entire different sort (and NASCAR drivers have done well in other closed wheel events such as Terry Labonte taking 12hours of Sebring and the 24h of Daytona wins as well as various of other NASCAR drivers finishing respectibly in endurance racing).

But strangely...graduates from C.A.R.T, ChampCar or Indy have never really done well despite a few being obviously talented (Zanardi). But results from these set of drivers just never came. Then there's Mansell who came over and was competitive (well...atleast in his rookie season) in Indy.

Of course the Indy field has changed a bit since back then and F1 failures have been finding it a bit harder to do as well as they did before (Ernesto Viso, Enrique Bernoldi).

But then...who came directly from Indy into F1 in recent ages (this is not a rhetoric question)? I personally know of no one (feel free to prove me wrong) and most if not all came from ChampCar.

So is Indy just a crap series that can never measure up to F1 or even GP2?

EDIT: But then again, do you consider Indy drivers and ChampCar drivers to be the same thing?

Last edited by lizardfolk, Thu 16 Jul 2009, 03:00.

Alright...another tire issue. BUT, it's not a complaint just a suggestion

I noticed that the tires are pretty independent from the chassis or anything else on the car anyways. No tire rub (this is of course closed wheel cars).

So...add tire rub. But I have more to suggest.

have the metal of the chassis have an effect on the tires (this can be both closed wheel or open wheel as the open wheel's front wing can be quite the blade). For example, if there's major contact between two cars, the possibility of a wheel being sliced open from contact (or punctured in open wheel racing).

Here is an example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v ... &feature=channel_page

Last edited by lizardfolk, Tue 14 Jul 2009, 23:07.

Quote from zeugnimod :

But not intentional contact. Which bumpdrafting is. IMO.

Malicious and intentional contact are two different things (atleast in the cases of stockcar/touring cars

Quote from 5haz :

T'is a bit harsh to say he is a total idiot, he shows flashes of brilliance, but thats the problem, showing flashes of brilliance is not good enough when you also show flashes of idiocy, real legendary racing drivers are consistantly brilliant.

Yes...that means he's a slightly above average driver. SO WHAT? Hamilton has achieved much more in McLaren than many F1 drivers can ever hope for in their careers. Christijan Albers, Sebastian Bourdais, Christian Klien, Takuma Sato, Alex Zanardi, Gaston Mazzacane.

All those drivers were (or are) pretty average in F1. These guys weren't complete crap, but saying that Hamilton is "below average" or a "complete idiot" is saying that he's below those lineup of drivers which is taking hyperbole way too far.

And to say he is complete crap is to put him among the likes of Alex Yoong, Yuji Ide, Sakon Yamamoto, Scott Speed and Jean Denis-Deletraz. Need I explain more? :rolleyes:

Is he champion material? Yes, but he's incredibly flawed. Arrogent? Pfffff, this is F1 we're talking about... :rolleyes:

Makes too many mistakes? Sure, absolutely. But this doesnt automatically cancels the fact that he is a rather talented driver with the ability to rise to the top. A quality I cant say for many F1 drivers. Has he utilized that talent? Well he was world champions wasn't he? Unless you now consider the F1 world title to be something meaningless and easily tossed aside.

Quote from 5haz :

I agree about categorising drivers as the next 'place legend here'.

People spend too much time being all nostalgic and comparing people to past legends, what people should be doing is making new legends today!

The whole idea of legends is pretty overrated. People take it so far going "ZOMG I BET <insert name> can beat <insert name> in this situation." Or "ZOMG <insert name> didn't exactly follow the steps for <insert name> so he's sh*t."

:rolleyes:

Meaningless arguments. One can never make an accurate judgments of this because racing has so many variables. So the tendency to bash current world champions and using past champions as a basis is an incredibly flawed thinking.

And I suppose that kovalainen is out performing Hamilton at every turn as well? :rolleyes:

Quote from PMD9409 :

Yeah, I was meaning family teams as like father/son owning/driving it.

Stanton Barrett?

Ya I understand what you mean now, I mean Scott Speed is now behind Andretti by 1 point in 36th. LOL, with Andretti's reliability no corporate team should really be behind even if it is 1 point

Hmm I looked at my own incident again and I looked at some videos where wrecks like mine happened.

Basically in RL, the axis if the front wheels break or bends (along with the chassis) due to the impact. We have all seen how extreme the LFS chassis can bend (without breaking) but the wheels are floating in the air.

I think what I want isn't too difficult to incorporate.

Have the axis bend with the chassis and have that "unrepairable" (which it really isn't in RL in a short amount of time).

I think another problem is that the chassis and the wheels are sorta independent from each other. I see chassis and wheel merging without any consequences as well as the chassis going through the wheel.

I think I'll make a list:

*Axis damages by bending or breaking (in which the wheel doesnt spins anymore)
*Crushed chassis will wrap around the wheel or "hinders" the wheel
*Actual engine damage
*Pit repairs (or removes) damaged sections of the chassis, repair tire damage, and maybe other minor things but nothing major like broken suspension, broken axis, damaged engines etc.
*Extend pit repair time for damage. 50 seconds to completely repair a severely damaged suspension? Sorry no...

I think with these 4 things incorporated I can have what i want in terms of damage. There is almost no way for any sim to full cover every single wreck situation and emulate it completely realistically. But are these 4 things so much to ask?

I personally dont think so but feel free to prove me wrong.

Alright, many of you know who I am, therefore many of you will also know that I dont usually complain about the game too much (unless it comes to damage models :razz. However, I would like to ask the community it's thoughts on the current LFS pits model and I would like to ask what would be needed to change to make LFS more "realistic" in terms of damage from crashes and how the pits handle them

Basically my problem is this:

During the Dystonia 350 race yesterday, I cut a tire and went straight into the wall. I was driving the FZR (but a engine damaged FZR so I was going 10 mph slower than usual). Now, after that wreck my car was almost undriveable, but still going....ok fine.

I went into the pits and it took about 50 seconds to make my car completely new again (apart from the engine damage as pits doesnt repair that).

Does this seem realistic to you that the pits can literally repair absolutely anything?

I mean my incident almost mirrors this crash: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkpxSu5oJeg

The only difference was that my tire blew during the turn instead of at the exit of the turn and I didn't hit the inside wall (although I would have if Kyoto was as tight as Bristol so that's pretty realistic ). That car immediately retired after that crash....however, I was able to get the car repaired in just over 50 seconds and came back out like nothing had ever happened. I was even able to come out of the pits with just one lap down.

I've seen people retire from much lighter wrecks than that and this as got me thinking.

Should the pits just magically repair everything and the car will run like nothing had ever happen to it? I know if the pits had a stricter repair model that it would suck for people to get into wrecks that wasn't their fault and retire due to too much damage....BUT....isn't that a big part of racing as well?

Also, my contact with the wall was pretty severe and yet I was fully able to continue. I went straight into the wall at 162 mph...why was I able to continue? Should the car axis damage be incorporated? Is it engine damage that wouldn't allow the car to continue? What features would have to be introduced in order for me to mimic Jeff Burton's situation in which I just had to retire and couldn't possibly continue?

Last edited by lizardfolk, Sun 12 Jul 2009, 20:52.

Isn't DEI a family organization?

NASCAR redbull front row and F1 redbull front row?

BTW I'm not happy about the 82 qualifying that well...it means greater potential for Speed to outscore Andretti this race (which might mean Andretti falling out of the top 35 in owner's points)

Quote from hansonator69 :

Red Bull is the biggest joke ever. The reliability of their Toyota's is abolsute crap, but they do have pace and one decent driver (Brian Vickers) but one big wrong decision they made was to let go of AJ Allmendinger when he was getting around that steep learning curve.
Oh and supposedly they're considering switching to Chevy's next year. (from Jayski)

Ehhhh, ur right that they should start to improve since MWR's toyotas have been improving (and improving tremendously I might add). As for a total joke, I wouldn't call them that, they still somewhat qualify although with the 82's current record they are behind Andretti's 34 in points (which...is actually pretty bad considering Andretti's horrible reliability). But...look at Blackjack Motorsports...the 51 car has only qualified for 1 of all it's attempts (which is actually most of the past races so far). IDK if it's Dexter Bean's fault or if Blackjack's car is just that crappy...but in either case they are a complete failure as a team overall...something RedBull hasn't managed to do yet.

Although getting rid of Allmendinger was a bad idea...an F1 driver over a ChampCar driver? Seems logically enough eh? But what they forgot was they are trading Allmendinger for Speed (LOL)

Last edited by lizardfolk, Sat 11 Jul 2009, 07:59.

Quote from SparkyDave :

Is it not best to let them have a battle and not to ram either of them??

on the oval? At your expense? NO WAY If i can help the person in front of be pass the guy faster and...better yet, get me to go along with him you can bet I'll do it.

Quote from SparkyDave :

I just dont get how some people cant see the fact you shouldnt contact other cars!!! especially when they are in a battle for position

If this was single seater racing I would completely agree. But if you are referring to touring cars and stock cars I wouldn't. Contact is a part of closed wheel racing...especially oval stock car racing.

It's an entirely different set of discipline and circumstance and it's unwise to compare the two imho. (i.e. the example I just showed you). I mean after all you wouldn't apply the same standards that you mentioned above to rallyX or CORR off road trucks. Just as well you shouldn't apply single seater standards to other different sets of disciplines.

Racing is racing but racing is vast and no one set of conduct will be able to apply to all forms of racing. Unless your talking about having good sportsmanship (i.e. no malicious contact as in pit maneuvers, squeezing or "schumacher" blocks), but good sportsmanship should be there in any sports or games regardless so I see that as a given

Last edited by lizardfolk, Fri 10 Jul 2009, 07:04.

IDK .... it's too early to tell whether MWR will dominate NASCAR in the future to fully mirror BAR's situation. But they both mirror each other's beginnings.

With both Ambrose and Reutimann behind better equipment perhaps we'll see them winning sometime soon

Would BAR be considered as the same team as honda? Even though BAR became Honda I thought that Honda became a different team so to speak in terms of techniques and management? If that's the case then it's a different team in my book.

MWR is still MWR. They changed their car format a little bit because they are co-operating the 47 with JTG...but all in all it's still MWR.

Bahhhh!!! MechWarrior.....I was a Starsiege fan. Oh gone were the glory days of the Earthsiege/Starsiege and MechWarrior rivalries that produced great mech squad games.....

Anyway I'm mildly curious as Starsiege:2845 completely flopped...we're let with no more modern mech games unless you consider chrome hounds and exteel as games worth mentioning.....

Still...I'm more interested in the korean game Metal Rage. I just pray a playable version comes out soon as most free to play korean games have that retarded KSSN requirement.......and that korean f2ps typically takes years to develop an international or english friendly version

Metal Rage: http://m.youtube.com/watch?des ... IBxKKpk&v=TVVbIBxKKpk

Quote from The Very End :

I find bump drafting easy, but you need to take the bumps really carefully in the tin tops. A hard nudge + lag will give you your ride of your life!

I've only truly bumped with the FO8, xrt and fzr.

Bumping with the FO8 was very easy for me. But the XRT was pretty tricky as it's so easy to loose it while bumping. It's timing the bump that's tricky and the car in front of you has to be smooth or else a wreck will ensue. You can't bump...nay...even nudge hard or else you'll loose it. I've ruined my own race before just because I was bumping too hard and being as how the XRT is so fricking unstable on the oval.....well....that was that. FZR is hell for bumping, and with the oval wall suddenly becoming a black hole that draws your car in like a vortex I wouldn't say it's easy or easier than standard draft and pass.

Of course this is all on the oval....

Last edited by lizardfolk, Thu 9 Jul 2009, 09:38.